PiBoSo Official Forum

GP Bikes => Media => Topic started by: doubledragoncc on May 11, 2016, 09:42:06 AM

Title: LIVE Streaming
Post by: doubledragoncc on May 11, 2016, 09:42:06 AM
Hi guys.

Well I thought we actually need a thread that is for the live streaming chat as it is all over the place at the moment lol.

So...............

I can stream no problem, BUT I only have a GTX670M, the only one that has no support for NVENC!!! This is a big issue and a bummer. Secondly, I only have the free version of X-Split as I dont have the dosh to pay for the license. These are the main cons for me at the moment.

I have tested OBS too and it seems that X-Split still gives better quality in the end. My internet is only good for 3000kbs upload speed at the moment but is supposed to be increased this month. This is fine for 720p streaming but I lose out on quality as I am stuck with only certain options in the free X-Split. As soon as I can afford a license I will get one. Just gotta get the money on my PayPal account and can do it. It is only $9 for a month or $25 for 3 months so will do it asap.

I think this is important for GPB as it will bring new customers to GPB and generate good PR for Piboso.

I have been reading up and watching tutorials and am working on the presentation and quality of representing GPB as best I can.

I need to do a lot of testing to get it better but its a start. Piboso needs to drastically improve netcode and the live replay system, or rather THE replay system. We need far more info to make streams interesting and attract repeat viewers. I will do my best but I will not promise to not drop F bombs, sorry its just me but I will TRY.   ::)

I guess I can just host a race and set all times to max to let it go as long as possible so people can come in and ride to test streaming. I can do a bit of testing riding myself, but the real test is using the relay system with multiple bikes fighting it out to have more on screen at the same time to test stream quality and speed.

I need some help here, so I will post HERE when I am going to host a test session. I will host a race and wait for someone to come on. This is where I could do with some actual real time communication with someone here in UK that we could actually use phones to communicate real time and not just via the forum. I have a lot to do so it is real hard to keep stopping to come on  the forum and check messages all the time.

It would be best if we had a general time that is best for people to ride as we are all over the world lol.

Postman just came, new cables woohoo, so off to do some work. Will be back laters.

DD

Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: Napalm Nick on May 11, 2016, 10:09:12 AM
Sounds great DD I (we) appreciate you doing this because it is a very interesting concept and, like you say, could be beneficial for the game and associated products especially if PiBoSo gets onboard with supporting it in the replays.

I would still advise extreme caution (commander  :P) about forking out any dosh towards it at this stage. Remember the current bottom line is the (poor) quality of the replays as stock which will limit the development of the idea.

Having said that the Owners club membership fees pot could probably stretch a couple of quid towards it. MMA can go without her vodka for a week I am sure.

Streaming chat window or Neat Chat is another comms idea that wont burden bandwidth like Skype. For me phoning is not an option because, as you might know, the 'Mallory Park' servers and Games room is underground (yes really) and landline-less let alone mobile signal less. That's why I use it - to avoid being contacted lol.
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: doubledragoncc on May 11, 2016, 10:34:45 AM
Lol Nick

I would only get the 1 month first to test just if it is worth it due to the additional codecs and adjustments it allows. I am stuck with mono audio at 96kbs as apposed to 128 needed, I can only use x264, which is okay but I can not fine tune anything at all!!!.

If the streaming offers chat outside of GPB it is a plus on its own for those who wish to chat at all and wont interrupt qually and races.

I will play a bit more with OBS too. Its free and more adjustments but not as nice to work with. I will just have to experiment................hahahaha Dr DD von Frankenstein is BACK!!!!

Maybe as its a few days until the race maybe I could see how it is on that server and today folks could let me know if streaming from there was a problem???

DD
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: Napalm Nick on May 11, 2016, 11:04:52 AM
Sure this evening is Ok with me just nail down a time (9pm CET / 8pm GMT is always a favourite). Also I think a thunderstorm is due so we might get the power we need Dr.
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_dXvGSWAPHOE/SuwtMxPRQkI/AAAAAAAABGU/1VUp7xuURSk/s320/YoungFrankenstein-Igor.jpg)
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: Hawk on May 11, 2016, 11:56:16 AM
Sounds great DD, but have you researched what a twitch account would give you as far as streaming options? I've not looked myself, but from what I gather they do provide a great service and it's all provide for you so you wouldn't have to buy any software or equipment. Twitch certainly worked pretty well for Furious and Arvoss when they gave live streaming a try. It's up to you of course but if you haven't looked into what Twitch can provide you for this then it may be a good idea to do so(might save you a lot of time and aggravation).  :)

I agree that the 8pm GMT time would be best for most riders I would say. I'll pop-in for a test session tonight if your holding one mate..... just post a start time and I'll be there.  ;) 8)

Pipboso knows exactly what we need because we had a good discussion with him about the needs for live streaming quite a while ago - Just a little surprised he didn't implement some features for beta 8.... Hopefully he will do so for beta 9, unless Max(Hint, hint.  ;D ) does a plugin for us as we've discussed recently, that would be a MASSIVE help for you for us all too.  ;D

Thanks DD for your great interest and dedication mate..... This as you say will definitely create more interest and therefore sales of GPB for sure, especially when we get this all pinned-down and working really well.

Great job DD!!  ;D 8)

Hawk.

Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: doubledragoncc on May 11, 2016, 12:07:11 PM
Thanks guys.

I have been thinking about things and the problem with testing when I host is that it will not be as if we are actually racing. If I was hosting the actual race, which I am willing to do if I had the system to, it would be different. I think to test should be on the race server tonight so that there is still plenty of time for folks to practice between now and the race no matter how testing goes. It is best to test on the GPBOC server with the track that will be used on it. We can then find out if my high ping is a problem or not. It is important that your fun is not interrupted by streaming.

This is something we will have to do and put up with to get it right and to give Piboso some good feedback to what is needed.

Just sitting on the server now my ping is 27 but as soon as I start streaming it hits 500-800!!!! As I am not giving INPUT to the server the ping should not effect it for others. I think it is a case of if the server is happy SENDING data with such a ping without effecting others? We need to test, that simple. If it dont work I will just find a way to make it work, BIG MOFO hammers may be involved!!!

DD
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: doubledragoncc on May 11, 2016, 12:12:46 PM
I have a race hosted same as this weeks for up to 10 as I need to see if my system handles it ok to start with. I know dick all about hosting lol.

I will just leave it up for folks to try and give me input.

DD
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: Napalm Nick on May 11, 2016, 12:40:51 PM
It didn't seem to affect it last time with your ping 600+.

I am a tad confused what you want to try. We can have a race tonight on the GPBOC1 server with the 500s as it is - already setup. And you can stream that? Is that what you mean? If so I will make a specific race post.

I can't see any server by you - you must open your ports for others to be able to join UDP ports 10500 and 10510

Sorry for being a dumbnut tell me what you want (better use kiddies speak and lollipops) and I will support it.
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: doubledragoncc on May 11, 2016, 12:45:48 PM
ichy caca boom boom gaga mugy waga boom. chuga ficky wacky bugger biga boom boom!!! lala ichy nuty walla walla. gizmo kaka!!!
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: Napalm Nick on May 11, 2016, 12:48:08 PM
Got it. See you all there  ;)

;D
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: doubledragoncc on May 11, 2016, 12:55:47 PM
Its weird, I looked and I was on the server list earlier but now it is gone???

Okay open ports is something I did like years ago and for the life of me have forgotten how to, just not needed to in years, call me dumb ass but it happens at my age lol. Its my excuse and I am sticking with it!!!

I am gonna try twitch and OBC a bit today

I just want to be able to stream while folks are on the track practicing or racing if you wanna do it. Only thing is tonight I need to speak with Darin on the show at 9pm so 7-8.30pm uk time would be cool to test. Only need to do a short test or tests to try a few things out.

So if people are gonna be on the GPBOC server tonight that is all I need.

DD
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: doubledragoncc on May 11, 2016, 01:02:32 PM
One thing is the quality that I am not happy with. I am making the overlays and all at the moment and trying to make a new wiring loom at the same time lol.

Here is how it is at 720p 3050bps

https://www.youtube.com/v/XsKhDBsHddc

Lots of work to do. Gonna test twitch in a bit.

DD
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: Napalm Nick on May 11, 2016, 01:18:15 PM
Well that quality looks bloody great to me. Maybe filming that geezer smoking is eating up B/W too.

"He looks bloody good smoking , wish we could smell him"  hahahahahahahahahaha!

OK will drum up an advert for a little streaming race tonight then at 8.00 GMT might get a few at this short notice.
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: doubledragoncc on May 11, 2016, 01:30:03 PM
Thanks Nick.

Just gonna do the twitch thing now wit OBS and hope it is better. Thing is YouTube has more people I think, will do both maybe lol.

DD
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: Hawk on May 11, 2016, 01:39:05 PM
Just watched you vid DD.... I totally agree with everything Nick said - The quality looks great to me mate!  ;D

7pm tonight on the GPBOC Snetterton server - I'll be there mate.  ;) 8)

Hawk.
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: teeds on May 11, 2016, 01:50:23 PM
Looks fine but you have some kind of low tone hum over the audio.
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: doubledragoncc on May 11, 2016, 02:11:00 PM
Yep audio will get sorted but just got low quality kit for now sorry all.

DD
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: Napalm Nick on May 11, 2016, 07:58:24 PM
All this needs in the short term is some way of you being able to monitor what bike is where so you can find the action and know who is who.

Just like the track map in the MaxHUD, just like it. The same really, Just like it.  ;)
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: Hawk on May 11, 2016, 08:00:02 PM
Quote from: Napalm Nick on May 11, 2016, 07:58:24 PM
All this needs in the short term is some way of you being able to monitor what bike is where so you can find the action and know who is who.

Just like the track map in the MaxHUD, just like it. The same really, Just like it.  ;)

Haha! That was subtle Nick! Hehe  ;D ;D

Hawk
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: Napalm Nick on May 11, 2016, 08:08:20 PM
ROFL  :-X

What if you could click on the round coloured bike markers on the map and the camera swopped to that bike? Wow that would be amazing I bet even Max couldn't do that without PiBoSo's help :'(
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: doubledragoncc on May 11, 2016, 08:45:41 PM
Yep sorry but thats the best quality for now. I am working on it guys. I am just busy trying to get this system for the show ready and also build my own or I wont have one lol.

DD

PS Nick I said MMA needed a real name not just MMA or I will have to call her MA as in the American ma lol.

Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: Napalm Nick on May 11, 2016, 09:02:22 PM
Call her what you like. I do, especially after her amended results post.  Clerk or Marshal (MMA is the ACUs Motorcycle Marshal Association).  I recommend "Biatch"
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: Napalm Nick on May 11, 2016, 09:25:12 PM
Watching your live stream back I am really looking forward to seeing if the replay quality (the juddering not the video quality) improves if streamed from your own server. In theory it should make a big difference much like server replays do.

The streaming has a lot of potential IMO if the replay quality can be improved (netcode?) and some commentators tools can be included.

Great job DD I am glad you are going to keep testing methods and software too.

PS: you did have some pants on right?  ;)
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: doubledragoncc on May 11, 2016, 09:44:28 PM
LOL yep I had pants on bro. Stupid bugger.

Or did I???

DD
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: Vini on May 12, 2016, 03:57:51 AM
could piboso implement a live replay buffer so that you at least have no lage when spectating?
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: HornetMaX on May 12, 2016, 06:43:02 AM
Quote from: Napalm Nick on May 11, 2016, 08:08:20 PM
What if you could click on the round coloured bike markers on the map and the camera swopped to that bike?
That would need a mouse pointer to be shown on-screen while streaming: isn't it a bit fugly ?
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: doubledragoncc on May 12, 2016, 07:45:55 AM
Right now it looks like shit, bikes hopping all over the place like a 5 year olds cartoon show, it sucks. The netcode and whole replay system need working on.

Even just making a video from a replay, if you go back to what you would think is the same time in different views, they are not in time, not synced at all. Making multi cam videos I have to work with it and its bad.

The keyboard commands not NOT always work and you have to keep the damn overlay showing to be able to change riders in certain instances. I have noticed that the cams selection number changes between tracks!!!! WTF (maybe mod problem, no rules laid down for cam orders?)

I forgot to edit rear wheel cam so the boot parts ruined using it(will fix it for all bikes needing it)

Having only keyboard control of orbit and free roam being hard to use right not good. We need mouse control of such cams for smooth action.

NO race info at all, only the rider you are viewing. We really need the MotoGP style layout for rider position, overtaking,  lap info, retirements etc etc

There is just so much missing it is hard to do anything good. I find it impossible to find a battle so I can have something more than the price of eggs to talk about. Rider identification impossible if no custom suit or bike paint, possibility to turn on riders name tag would be good.

As said before by someone, a track map with the riders position and number that you could click on to go to them would be brilliant.

And and and lol

Thanks to you guys for helping with the testing. Please tell me if you felt that it effected you in ANY way so I can sort it out.

DD
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: Napalm Nick on May 12, 2016, 08:23:49 AM
Cameras: When I do them from scratch I keep them in order so they always progress around the track. The problem comes if extra cameras are added afterwards using TrackED where they get tagged on to the end so out of sequence. TrackED does not allow sequencing unfortunately. If this is done then they need to be manually changed in the resultant text file.
To be fair this has not raised its head a s a problem before.

Mouse camera control: You will be excited to know you can do this in the roaming cameras - just hit the '.'  (period/fullstop) button on the numberpad to enter mouse control mode. You can also control the mouse or tracking speed with '+/-' or sometimes the middle mouse button roller thing.

Fugly mouse pointers: The benefit would outweigh the fugly pointer (which you still see now because of the camera/rider/view selection problems anyway) by approx. 1000:1 I reckon.

Didn't affect me DD. I need to keep an eye on my drop in quality seen during both streams so far but as no-one else is saying it I reckon that could be my end only.

3 commentators, 4 camera operators, a replay editor and a Director to choose the action could be used instead of interface improvements  ::)
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: Napalm Nick on May 12, 2016, 08:30:57 AM
Quote from: vin97 on May 12, 2016, 03:57:51 AM
could piboso implement a live replay buffer so that you at least have no lage when spectating?

and that sounds like a really good idea Vin if it was possible?  I would guess the issue would be if the game has dropped the frames because it can't keep up in the first place. But great idea as far as I can tell!  8)
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: teeds on May 12, 2016, 08:33:35 AM
A good start DD, and you seem have the gab to be able to talk for a long time about not a lot, fair play  :)

A few suggestions-
Can you reserve bandwidth for applications with your kit? Might help with the game lag if you can find a good balance.
That hum sounds like you might just have your mic gain (boost) to high, can hear you OK with it turned down (to lessen the hum) so is possibly room for a lower setting.
It's not great but I'm pretty sure to find the race order and who's racing close by popping into the main screen and look at race classification and times etc.

Anyway good job.
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: Napalm Nick on May 12, 2016, 08:43:10 AM
Oh another thought DD.

I don't think we mind the 2 minute wait at all. In fact for the first start I think I actually prefer waiting the 2 minutes. It only gets tedious when there are restarts (WELL DONE! NO JUMP STARTS AT ALL LAST NIGHT!!!  :o 8)) .

If you like you could overcome this by 'going to track' with the rest of us then just retire when you are ready after race start. No biggie but its an option if it worries you.  The second best Race director in the GPB Owners Club also does this sometimes for our benefit ( I bet no-one knew that did they - its cos he is great!). 

Anyway don't forget to come racing with us yourself don't see why you should miss out on all this racing misery fun. ;)
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: doubledragoncc on May 12, 2016, 09:21:18 AM
Thanks for the input and tips Nick.

I really have fun doing this actually so I dont miss out at all. I wish I could host the races too? (Future Happening)

I am busy getting the system for the ISR show finished and have to build mine too or I wont have one when I ship it!!!!

I have CDX coming over Sunday to watch the race with me so not racing this weekend. I will try and figure it all out.

In reality I nee to get an Elgato HD60 for the laptop to do this and it is on my shopping list.

I also need to test a licensed X-Split as soon as I can get $9 on my paypal lol.

It can only get better thank god lol

DD

EDIT: The mouse can only be used in free view and that is not really perfect. we need to have the free view so you have not so restricted movement. It is not an easy one to use in many ways right now.
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: doubledragoncc on May 12, 2016, 10:10:23 AM
I am so behind on my bike reviews, I might see if I can get the quality up so I can do some live bike reviews too, just for fun lol.

Maybe I need to drink Jacky and not cheap beer while streaming, I get funny(nice funny) on Jacky lol.

This is DD von Frankenstein signing off

Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: doubledragoncc on May 12, 2016, 11:31:44 AM
@Nick...........

Do you have a clue how much bandwidth kbs GPB needs? I am running GPB in 1080p windowed/full screen.

I need to know as I need 2500kbs at least for streaming 720p. I tried lower resolutions but X-Split has a recognition system that wont allow certain resolutions to be used. I know people say they dont need it, but YES we do, in fact we need 1080p to promote GPB. Besides I dont like low quality shit, it really gets on my tits!!! It is 2016 NOT 1985!!! I think it is time for better graphics lol.

DD
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: HornetMaX on May 12, 2016, 12:03:22 PM
Quote from: Napalm Nick on May 12, 2016, 08:23:49 AM
Fugly mouse pointers: The benefit would outweigh the fugly pointer (which you still see now because of the camera/rider/view selection problems anyway) by approx. 1000:1 I reckon.
But if we assume the current problem will be solved (one day) then there's nofugly pointer right now, as you only need keyboard shortcuts to switch cam/rider.
That's why I was (and still am) confused by Piboso's new feature (allow plugins to change the cam).

Example (can't check current GPB shortcuts right now, throwing a random example here):

CTRL+ 1 / 2 / 3 ==> select camera sets 1 / 2 / 3 (camera set = trackview or spectator, for example).
CTRL + + / - ==> next/prev camera set

CTRL+SHIFT + 1 / 2 / 3 ==> track rider in position 1 / 2 / 3  (this is missing in GPB, if I recall correctly)
CTRL+SHIFT + + / - ==> track next/prev rider (in terms of race position)

CTRL+ALT+SHIFT + 1 / 2 / 3 ==> track rider 1 / 2 / 3 (in the list of riders, likely by racenum)
CTRL+ALT+SHIFT + + / - ==> track next/prev rider

And if you're really in a Kubrick mood, you could manually switch across cameras instead of using pre-defined camera sets (but to be honest, I see little value in this):

ALT + 1 / 2 / 3 ==> select camera 1 / 2 / 3 (these are "fixed" cameras, not camera sets).
ALT + + / - ==> next/prev camera

Zero need for mouse pointers (as far as you can see the map with the dots/numbers for the riders).
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: h106frp on May 12, 2016, 12:10:11 PM
Quote from: doubledragoncc on May 12, 2016, 11:31:44 AM
@Nick...........

Do you have a clue how much bandwidth kbs GPB needs? I am running GPB in 1080p windowed/full screen.

I need to know as I need 2500kbs at least for streaming 720p. I tried lower resolutions but X-Split has a recognition system that wont allow certain resolutions to be used. I know people say they dont need it, but YES we do, in fact we need 1080p to promote GPB. Besides I dont like low quality shit, it really gets on my tits!!! It is 2016 NOT 1985!!! I think it is time for better graphics lol.

DD

Looks to be high 4-5MBs for broadcast 1080p+audio according to this
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/how-much-bandwidth-do-you-need-streaming-video#k4WE0jcGceEcFvGl.97 (http://www.soundandvision.com/content/how-much-bandwidth-do-you-need-streaming-video#k4WE0jcGceEcFvGl.97)

With a 3Mb UK standard upload package you are probably already BW limited at 720p

How does GPB control framerate on a stream? I guess this would be the issue in maintaining sync.
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: HornetMaX on May 12, 2016, 12:12:44 PM
Quote from: h106frp on May 12, 2016, 12:10:11 PM
How does GPB control framerate on a stream? I guess this would be the issue in maintaining sync.
It doesn't. It's the recording/streaming software/hardware that controls the framerate of the resulting video stream/recording.
GPB can only control (cap) his own framerate.
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: h106frp on May 12, 2016, 12:15:05 PM
Looking at the standars;
1080p 24 fps, 1080p 50 fps, and 1080p 60 fps

It seems broadcast is 24 with plans to go to 50, so the lower bandwidth figure in the link are probably for 1080p and 24fps
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: doubledragoncc on May 12, 2016, 12:25:09 PM
The streaming software, in my case X-Split free is what controls the quality of the stream by its settings and codecs used. I am at present limited but will sort it out asap. Also I can test my bandwidth in the software and it will tell me it is fine for streaming 720p, BUT, when I then start GPB online, even though I am in fact not riding and really only using my download bandwidth to be online with you all my system is still using upload bandwidth, I just cant say how much yet. I am sure there is a way to see what program is using what amount of bandwidth, I just have not looked yet.

I have 50MB download but only 3MB upload, so I have the 2500kbs I need for 720p but for some reason, and it is either X-Split or YouTube or both, the actual quality is lower than 720p and I drop frames. I ran some tests and no way can I put it below 720p in X-Split as it turns it to total mush and looks like a film from 1916!!!

Give me time guys I have only been doing it a week lol.

DD
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: doubledragoncc on May 12, 2016, 12:39:45 PM
Man am I one pissed off mofo!!!

Just checked with Virgin and they restrict your usage even on UNLIMITED use packages, this means if I upload 1GB of data in a certain time they will reduce my upload speed for 1 hour by up to 63%!!!!!!!

Man I am about to make a fucking phone call and rip someone a new asshole as I found nothing about it in my contract.

DD= MegaPissedOff GonnaBiteYour BallsackOff dude

Thats better Woosaa............................. Woosaa....................................
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: h106frp on May 12, 2016, 12:49:19 PM
Remembered having the bandwidth discussion before  :)

http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=2495.msg36390#msg36390 (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=2495.msg36390#msg36390)


Upload speed:
Code: [Select]

Players         used by game (peak)       recommended for beeing 100% safe      
10 player       -   1,0 MBit/s      -     1,5 MBit/s
16 players   -   2,0 MBit/s    -     3,0 MBit/s   
20 players   -   3,0 MBit/s    -     5,0 MBit/s


Download (peak): 30%-50% of upload.
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: Napalm Nick on May 12, 2016, 01:06:48 PM
Nice one H.

Max - having the map and bike positions would actually be nice for the viewers to see as well I reckon?
Yes if the camera controls were working OK and the ones you talk about are included then no mouse cursor/button clicking would probably be needed.

Oh and DD yes I know about those limits but don't think any other provider is any better. In fact cable is probably the sturdiest for stability. Ask if they will up the upload limit because of what you are doing. They can be quite accommodating if approached without the big booted Esther Rancid approach.
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: doubledragoncc on May 12, 2016, 01:22:19 PM
LOL Nick

I can be very diplomatic and am actually going to ask them nicely lol.

Good to know, thanks H

DD
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: HornetMaX on May 12, 2016, 01:27:44 PM
Quote from: Napalm Nick on May 12, 2016, 01:06:48 PM
Max - having the map and bike positions would actually be nice for the viewers to see as well I reckon?
I'm not sure. If the map is there all the time it could become boring, even on TV it's not there all the time.
Most important, if I show 20 dots on it (and numbers) it may quickly become a mess.
Anyway, I'll do the map in spectator mode for sure, just not sure when.

Quote from: Napalm Nick on May 12, 2016, 01:06:48 PM
Oh and DD yes I know about those limits but don't think any other provider is any better. In fact cable is probably the sturdiest for stability. Ask if they will up the upload limit because of what you are doing. They can be quite accommodating if approached without the big booted Esther Rancid approach.
At my place I could get fiber at (down/upload) 100/50 Mbit/s or 200/50 or 500/200 for very reasonable prices (just a tad more than the crappy 10/1 Mbit/s adsl).
Too bad I'm moving in less than 1 year and where I'll be I won't have that :(
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: Napalm Nick on May 12, 2016, 01:42:40 PM
Quote from: HornetMaX on May 12, 2016, 01:27:44 PM

Anyway, I'll do the map in spectator mode for sure, just not sure when.


Too bad I'm moving in less than 1 year and where I'll be I won't have that :(

A map! You will? Do I need to get my man-hugs out again?!  8)

Server has 200/50 but we are also moving 'soon' and it isn't available either where we are going. Eckythump.
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: HornetMaX on May 12, 2016, 01:56:07 PM
@Nick: it will be the same track map you can see in MaxHUD today, except you will be able to see it also when spectating (live replay, still not sure if I'll do something for "offline" replays).
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: Napalm Nick on May 12, 2016, 03:08:26 PM
Will it be selectable on and off and also the range settings etc like normal riding?
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: Vini on May 12, 2016, 03:25:35 PM
Quote from: Napalm Nick on May 12, 2016, 08:30:57 AM
Quote from: vin97 on May 12, 2016, 03:57:51 AM
could piboso implement a live replay buffer so that you at least have no lage when spectating?

I would guess the issue would be if the game has dropped the frames because it can't keep up in the first place.
Thought about that and this is the reason why there will alwas be some lag when being live (either racing or spectating) but the reason for that is that information simply doesn't reach the server instantly so it has to drop data sometimes.
But eventually (after some ms) all of your inputs will have been able to reach the server and so if the server sends out a slightly delayed stream for spectaters (and doesn't drop data) I don't see why there should be any lag.

Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: Hawk on May 12, 2016, 03:49:07 PM
Quote from: vin97 on May 12, 2016, 03:25:35 PM
Quote from: Napalm Nick on May 12, 2016, 08:30:57 AM
Quote from: vin97 on May 12, 2016, 03:57:51 AM
could piboso implement a live replay buffer so that you at least have no lage when spectating?

I would guess the issue would be if the game has dropped the frames because it can't keep up in the first place.
Thought about that and this is the reason why there will alwas be some lag when being live (either racing or spectating) but the reason for that is that information simply doesn't reach the server instantly so it has to drop data sometimes.
But eventually (after some ms) all of your inputs will have been able to reach the server and so if the server sends out a slightly delayed stream for spectaters (and doesn't drop data) I don't see why there should be any lag.

I personally think the staggering we see in DD's live stream is due to his broadcast software dropping frames to try and keep the live stream in sync for the screen resolution he is trying to broadcast at(720p).... Nothing to do with user lag at all - I didn't get any lag while DD was live streaming. The only lag I get in GPB is when someone is connecting to the server - I don't get lag in replays or live replays either. What you do get is when someone has a high ping they tend to jump about because of their lag to the server, but that is nothing to do with GPB's capability, that is just a fact of someone trying to play online who lives a long way from the server; this is why game servers tend to have a max-ping setting to stop high ping rated users connecting.  :)

Also, when live streaming was done for GPB on "Twitch" there was no frame rate staggering because I suspect their hardware automatically sorts everything out for the user, whereas DD is having to set-up his X-Split Broadcast software himself and that is going to take a little time to figure it all out.  :)

Hawk.
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: Vini on May 12, 2016, 04:13:12 PM
yeah, i don't mean the framestuttering, i mean the parkinson front wheel.
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: Hawk on May 12, 2016, 04:56:49 PM
Quote from: vin97 on May 12, 2016, 04:13:12 PM
yeah, i don't mean the framestuttering, i mean the parkinson front wheel.

Oh, is that were the wheel lifts off the ground in the replays? Yeah I definitely get that too in replay and live replay.... I'm sure that started in beta 7 but nothing was done about it for beta 8 unfortunately.  :(

I've never heard it called Parkinson front wheel though - maybe I'm mistaken in your meaning?  :-\ :)

Hawk.
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: HornetMaX on May 12, 2016, 07:23:53 PM
Quote from: Napalm Nick on May 12, 2016, 03:08:26 PM
Will it be selectable on and off and also the range settings etc like normal riding?
Yes, it will be just the same.
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: Napalm Nick on May 12, 2016, 07:49:39 PM
Wonderful thanks.
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: doubledragoncc on May 12, 2016, 07:56:20 PM
Can you make it so that you could add text to the screen in the live replay window instead of a map or other graphic? I mean to be able to put pole position holder before the race, first 3 place winners or messages during a live feed.

I think I can do it in X-Split or OBS but if you use other software during a stream and leave the GPB window, then go back to GPB, it gets a tizzy fit and keyboard commands dont work any more until you make a selection by mouse!!!

Just a way to add info on the fly, text, jpg pic etc.

DD
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: doubledragoncc on May 12, 2016, 08:24:25 PM
So Nick............................

What we spoke about in PM, it is not much more than a simple PC to run as a server right?

And then:

Someone who is dedicated to GPB and lives breaths and works for all about it  ;D

Has a Good reliable Internet service  ;D

Is Willing to give up a hot chick for the community  ;D

Can be with the server nearly 24/7 and have it next to the bed just in case. (or willing to marry a woman as cool as MMA)  ;D

Is it it for the long haul, not just as a thing to do to look cool until they meet a hotter chick or cant win a race in GPB.  ;D

Willing to give up beer, cigs and sex!!!  >:( >:( :'(

I would like to take the position to do it. I dont need a system with a monitor as my 40" flatscreen has 2 HDMI and 1 VGA input so can switch between system when I need to.

I know that Hackspace here in London often get PC systems given to members who require one, guess we are eligible lol. Will post on the forums and ask, we might get lucky.

I literally live everyday with GPB, be it in the actual sim itself or working on control systems that it got me making after years of not doing anything until I found GPB. I like to race, make the videos and love trying to stream the races and all to do with GPB. Having a server for GPB would take the pressure off Nick and MMA and it would mean I could set it up to do streams directly from the race server which is better for all.

So, I need :

1. Server system
2. Elgato HD60 Capture/Stream Box
3.  X-Split License
4. Stash of cheap beer and tobacco

If I can sort this out, would anyone be against ME doing this. I do not wish to tread on the toes of anyone that maybe wishes to do the same thing.

I am very serious about generating business for Piboso but more than anything its about being able to do my bit for the community as I am shite at modding.

DD








Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: Napalm Nick on May 12, 2016, 08:44:25 PM
LOL you get my vote it seems you have all the qualifications and more importantly the enthusiasm to do it.

Whist having another PC for a dedi server would be nice it isn't essential and it looks like your rig would be most capable and probably easier to run all the streaming from as one unit etc etc. Have sent another mail clarifying what you need.

With an impending move my commitment over that period will wane so it would also be an ideal time for you to take some load (and probably do it a lot better). I cant give you MMA though sorry she bakes a mean cake.

So yes, DD for president as far as I am concerned!  :)
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: doubledragoncc on May 12, 2016, 08:51:37 PM
Holy Toledo dude.................. I only wanna be part of the community not President!!! Those dudes get shot too much for my liking, or is it not enough lol.

All jokes aside thanks for the vote and all your help with the streaming and server info.

I will at least start asap using the partition on my G75 so need all the info like yesterday Nick lol. Then I can set up a server for me to learn on before I cock up all the races lol. CAnt do 24/7 server but at least 8AM to 1AM UK time every day until I get a dedicated system for the server.

DD
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: Napalm Nick on May 12, 2016, 09:10:44 PM
Well you should start here with Max's guide http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=431.msg3008#msg3008 and decide if you want to setup a dedi or just a world server. If dedicated (recommended as you want to do that later on another PC so why not learn now)there is a link there to take you through a wormhole to the next dimension and learn that. It is simple enough so don't let it put you off initially. Ask me any questions by PM (then I can get em on my phone asap) and we can get you sorted.

Number 1 step I would recommend - make your laptop IP static then forward your router ports as stated to that IP. That's probably enough for tonight lol.

It is for me any ways Nite nite all.
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: HornetMaX on May 12, 2016, 10:09:53 PM
Quote from: doubledragoncc on May 12, 2016, 07:56:20 PM
Can you make it so that you could add text to the screen in the live replay window instead of a map or other graphic?
That would be messy if done within a plugin.

What I have in the todo list is to have the map while spectating and something that shows current positions and gaps.
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: doubledragoncc on May 12, 2016, 10:10:58 PM
It is my one pet hate, talking about open ports and such. I just get all cuffufalled lol. I will read it all in the morning with a cuppa or four hehe.

Thanks bro.

DD
Title: Re: LIVE Streaming
Post by: doubledragoncc on May 12, 2016, 10:12:09 PM
Thanks Max, just wondered.

I will go streaming app hunting lol

DD