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GP Bikes => Mods => Italian Mod Team => Topic started by: Italian Mod Team on January 06, 2018, 08:11:14 PM

Title: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.3 (Beta 14)
Post by: Italian Mod Team on January 06, 2018, 08:11:14 PM
(http://www.suterproducts.com/media/wysiwyg/header_images/suter_500_main.jpg)


Release Version 1.3

This is not an update but its a full version (just delete the outdated version and install this one, delete old setups for avoid core.exe)

Changelog Version 1.3:

- New geometry (mainly weight distribution and new front susp).
- Improved  both suspensions.
- Changed again chassis stiffness.
- New tires (fixed sizes, now are a bit smaller in the phisics so the speed will be a bit lower), and increased the performance.



Some tips for not expert riders:

- ON\OFF with the throttle its not a good idea because the bike is very light and powerful.
- In downshift dont put the lower gears at high RPM.
- Use a little bit of the rear brake for increase the stability under hard braking (not too much!)
- Default front leverage is 18mm, but I recommend using 20mm.
- In the first lap the tires will be cold so... not push too much.


Download: https://mega.nz/#!YsghGIbK!E70avWOIxg_R-QOZ2J8WDdsmPjkyp-CNvzKkRqiooQ0



No more updates in the current Beta, this update is for have fun in the champ. So good luck with the "impossible bike" ;D

Template: PSD livery MMX500 (https://mega.nz/#!ggZzTQaJ!1Uf6LXwU9u9V6IHjAIsl6gvPADfMPc-ygIuGSLTmDww)


Installation: Just extract the files in: "...\Program Files (x86)\GP Bikes\gpbikes"  the category is: "MMX500"



Special credits:

Wimp: External tester
KennyBarroz: For the extra livery (The Rothams Racing one)
 

Soon online the IMT servers


Have fun!  ;)
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: KliPPiE on January 06, 2018, 08:15:40 PM
YAAAAAY
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Wimp #97 on January 06, 2018, 08:47:50 PM
YES BABY!!!
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: KG_03 on January 06, 2018, 10:03:46 PM
The bike is great ! one problem with is that it flips over the bar so easily and its hard to control it
Thank you for your work!
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Italian Mod Team on January 06, 2018, 10:56:33 PM
The bike is great ! one problem with is that it flips over the bar so easily and its hard to control it
Thank you for your work!

Try 20mm on the front, we havent this issue.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Vini on January 06, 2018, 11:01:15 PM
great bike but a litte unstable under braking and the gearbox is unfortunately not suited for manual revmatching.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: 2tfanatic on January 06, 2018, 11:12:45 PM
1h30 of use with the bike and it is simply great but i have to say one thing, it lacks power.

The bike has 195hp for 127kg but it doesn't feel like it ingame, as for the sound it must be a bit deeper.

Other than that, great bike and keep up the good work !

2tfanatic
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: KG_03 on January 06, 2018, 11:22:52 PM
Yup I have used the 20 mm and it works a bit better. Thank you.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: davidboda46 on January 07, 2018, 01:39:31 AM
1h30 of use with the bike and it is simply great but i have to say one thing, it lacks power.

The bike has 195hp for 127kg but it doesn't feel like it ingame, as for the sound it must be a bit deeper.
It doesn't lack power, it's just that the power delivery is different on a 2 stroke. The power comes in at higher revs, that's why it can feel a bit sluggish at the bottom, you just need to keep the revs a bit higher. I personally like the bike and think it's spot on.

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46   
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Italian Mod Team on January 07, 2018, 02:24:35 AM
The bike is definitely not what i expected, all the long wait for nothing.

Handles like a 5 pound gate.

For something as "light" it turns like shit

Sounds ridiculous

However you can repay us by releasing the GP7

Are you sure that we spend time for people like you?
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: KliPPiE on January 07, 2018, 02:30:19 AM
The bike is definitely not what i expected, all the long wait for nothing.

Handles like a 5 pound gate.

For something as "light" it turns like shit

Sounds ridiculous

However you can repay us by releasing the GP7

Are you sure that we spend time for people like you?

Well your contradicting yourself on that statement if you do not have time for people like me then why you responding to my feedback.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Italian Mod Team on January 07, 2018, 02:36:47 AM
Well if you going to release something at least do it properly and do not hype people about "awesome" things you release that i might as well ride the standard 125 cup bike.

Its feedback not mocking your work.

... I will keep your comments just for show your lack of respect and above all your ignorance. Have fun.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: davidboda46 on January 07, 2018, 02:49:47 AM
The bike is definitely not what i expected, all the long wait for nothing.

Handles like a 5 pound gate.

For something as "light" it turns like shit

Sounds ridiculous
I think you misunderstood the term feedback. "all the long wait for nothing" is not feedback, "Handles like a 5 pound gate. For something as "light" it turns like shit" is bad feedback. "Sounds ridiculous", well that gives a lot of direction for improvements... Be specific if you are going to give feedback. Is it bad turning into corners? Does it run wide? Is it heavy when you flick it from one side to the other? Also this bike does not have a lot of engine brake, so you have to ride it a bit more like a 250, to keep the momentum and the revs up. I also use the rear brake to help it turn. I am not saying that people can't have different opinions, but if you voice them, do it in a constructive and nice way. The modders are doing this for all of us, and they are doing it for free. Try to keep that in mind. If you don't have anything constructive to say, and you don't like a bike, just don't use it...     

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46

http://www.youtube.com/v/X42r7fRdtWE
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Italian Mod Team on January 07, 2018, 03:15:29 AM
The bike is great ! one problem with is that it flips over the bar so easily and its hard to control it
Thank you for your work!

great bike but a litte unstable under braking and the gearbox is unfortunately not suited for manual revmatching.

It doesn't lack power, it's just that the power delivery is different on a 2 stroke. The power comes in at higher revs, that's why it can feel a bit sluggish at the bottom, you just need to keep the revs a bit higher. I personally like the bike and think it's spot on.

Cheers,
/David "Gonzo" Boda #46

These are feedbacks, positive or negative, them are usefull for improve the bike in a next update.

Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Italian Mod Team on January 07, 2018, 04:04:32 AM
Thread re-open any posts with not respect for the modders will be deleted.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: 2tfanatic on January 07, 2018, 05:14:45 AM
Thread re-open any posts with not respect for the modders will be deleted.

The mod is very good, i'm working on a new Livery as we speak.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Nicotine on January 07, 2018, 06:54:16 AM
Thanks for great bike IMT
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Italian Mod Team on January 07, 2018, 07:42:19 AM
Thanks for great bike IMT

thx

-------------------

Out of curiosity someone try this file:

And check as works the front now.

P.S. Its not a official update.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Wimp #97 on January 07, 2018, 09:47:16 AM
I like the bike lol, idk what all the hate is about. Brakes can be fixed or improved with some setup changes. People just find it difficult because they ride other modded bikes a lot and on those you can sometimes just fully close the brake without flipping, on these you cant. Its different not better/worse just different, tbh more realistic because you don't slam the brake lever in real life.

The bike does feel a bit strange in the corners, not how you'd expect a 127kg bike to handle. That being said, the laptimes on this bike were still very fast so it can't be that slow... Maybe its more of a tyre/grip issue than bike issue? but idk how tyres work in this game.

I also tested the other .geom file. Bike doesn't change much apart from braking not as good(as late) as the original .geom but maybe that has more to  do with my setup. As I said I tested it very shortly. I'll test it a bit better later today.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: KG_03 on January 07, 2018, 09:47:55 AM
Well no matter what this bike ride far mor better than in Ride 2. I bet its hard to make sucha complicated thing and its not easy to make everyone happy. For me it rides great and looks even better. I have lots of fun learning how to ride it. So once again thank you for your hard work.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Syd on January 07, 2018, 11:01:32 AM
Firstly, thank you for modding this bike!
I see no problem with the brakes.
I see no problem with the handling, is good.
The tyres are good, but if anything a little too good. I would be happier to have a bit less grip.

Engine characteristics does seem wrong though - I would expect this bike to have a powerband suited to the pipes, but it is so linear as if the expansion pipes are just straight tubes. Feels more like a 4 stroke. Riding in a straight line on half throttle, say 2nd or 3rd gear, the bike accelerates uniformly throughout the rev range. Pick the Cagiva and try the same thing - completely different. I know this bike is more manageable than the old 500s, but even Wayne Gardner says the Suter is still a hard bike to ride. This feels too easy.  If you change the engine characteristics to more of a 2 stroke powerband it will be a big improvement.

Thanks
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: MultiCOOLFRESH on January 07, 2018, 11:14:11 AM
So, I agree on Klippie, but not with how he said it. First of all: my problems are 1. the sound 2. the handling 3. the powerband
1. It sounds like a 125ccm. It should be way deeper from the sound and not so screaming. You could share the sound and we may take it for the Mito 125ccm ;)

2. The bike feels like a brick. It is pretty good at turning in, but still not as fast and light as you would expect from a bike, that weighs as much as a 125ccm 2 or 4 stroke. The worst problem is accerlating out of a corner. The bike just goes straight and does not want to turn. You really get wide and this will definetley not be the case in real life, I can not imagine.

3.It feels like a 4-stroke, even though I am not having such a huge problem with this, since the new MMX500 is so well made, that there is no power hole. Just give it a lil bit of a hole and then it should be nice.

Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Luponius on January 07, 2018, 11:37:43 AM
So, I agree on Klippie, but not with how he said it. First of all: my problems are 1. the sound 2. the handling 3. the powerband
1. It sounds like a 125ccm. It should be way deeper from the sound and not so screaming. You could share the sound and we may take it for the Mito 125ccm ;)

2. The bike feels like a brick. It is pretty good at turning in, but still not as fast and light as you would expect from a bike, that weighs as much as a 125ccm 2 or 4 stroke. The worst problem is accerlating out of a corner. The bike just goes straight and does not want to turn. You really get wide and this will definetley not be the case in real life, I can not imagine.

3.It feels like a 4-stroke, even though I am not having such a huge problem with this, since the new MMX500 is so well made, that there is no power hole. Just give it a lil bit of a hole and then it should be nice.

Thanks for the bike IMT! My feedback is that MCF's 2nd point best describes what I felt was happening.

It initiates turns ok.
Brakes also work great (20mm helped me) and this is kinda what I expect from braking on light bikes in the first place
I thought power was a bit underwhelming (Expected it to be a massive wheelie machine, not just a stoppie best! :P - but once again it was just my expectation, didn't base it on real life experience)

But throttle totally screws your turning capabilities.  I kept going really awkward lines and I couldn't figure out why.  Having read MCF's it seemed to click with me pretty accurately.

Also we gave Klipp a bit of a spanking on discord, he's still stubborn but we'll turn him into an obedient little sex slave in good time (I hope he reads this)  :P 8) ;D
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: doubledragoncc on January 07, 2018, 11:56:23 AM
So after reading some  comments got to add my 2cents

First off, thanks IMT great bike, love it

Right...........I an using the new Hs3 with hydraulic brakes and this bikes brakes are just right for a REAL braking system!!! If your using a gamepad the control input is VERY small and OVER sensitive compared to real controls. This bikes front brake is sharp BUT that is how it is IRL the brake hve to match how much power the bike has. I find with the Hs3 hydraulic brake it is spot on to use and feels real. Love it love it love it!!!

Handles fine so far but only set brake to 20mm all others are default.

Great work IMT and thankyou. It will be in next live stream.

DD
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: KG_03 on January 07, 2018, 12:22:09 PM
I was riding today and I think that the brakes is just a matter of getting used to it. Comparing to other bikes the brakes in Suter feel to be so sharp. Today I started with fresh mind and it was good on stock set up :-)
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Vini on January 07, 2018, 01:35:04 PM
i agree that the sound is too high pitched and that the engine is too tame (both in terms of linearity and absolute power). the throttle is too easy to control IMO, wheelie and powerslide tendency needs to be much greater.

i see no problems with the brakes and the bike turns fine but as other people have mentioned you have to pick up the bike rather quickly in order to get a good corner exit.

maybe the chassis could use a bit more flex, though. might improve braking stability and slightly increase cornering speeds.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Italian Mod Team on January 07, 2018, 03:27:37 PM
Any feedback here is different...

Anyway klippie will be banned from any IMT servers.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Wimp #97 on January 07, 2018, 04:25:01 PM
I will try to test geometry changes a bit better this evening and report back to you then.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Italian Mod Team on January 07, 2018, 04:30:59 PM
I will try to test geometry changes a bit better this evening and report back to you then.

Its not important, a (fake) fix for the braking stability, now the modders use this stuff for make the bike easer, we put realistic datas, but young boys as Kilippie, MultiCOOLFRESH, are the worst thing for GP Bikes with absurd feedbacks.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Wimp #97 on January 07, 2018, 04:48:43 PM
I will try to test geometry changes a bit better this evening and report back to you then.

Its not important, a (fake) fix for the braking stability, now the modders use this stuff for make the bike easer, we put realistic datas, but young boys as Kilippie, MultiCOOLFRESH, are the worst thing for GP Bikes with absurd feedbacks.

Aha ok, bike is already really fast as it is, doesn't need to be made faster/easier than it already is

i like the sound of realistic data :D as long as the data comes from a good/reliable source.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Italian Mod Team on January 07, 2018, 05:54:54 PM
Aha ok, bike is already really fast as it is, doesn't need to be made faster/easier than it already is.

i like the sound of realistic data :D as long as the data comes from a good/reliable source.

We know this  ;)

Anyway tires grip is the same of the other bikes, is tested to Victoria, Laguna Seca and Spa, and works very well, dunno in other tracks.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Italian Mod Team on January 07, 2018, 08:52:29 PM
Wimp or Vin pls a quicky bike test with this setting:

Quote
FrontLatDamping =   8.5

In the bike cgf.

Its just a little test for see the we have the same sensibility at the changes.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: speedfr on January 07, 2018, 10:29:48 PM
Hi !

And thanks IMT for that MMX mod.  ;D
Love it as DD says (actually, it's him who pushed me this afternoon to give it a try and he was right)  ;)

It's hard on braking, went on my favorite track (NC - Mugello) and even if i have a poor controller, at least i can compare to the other bikes i did used and i really like it. Love the 2 stroke anyway so i'm not objective.
Didn't felt harder out the curves than the other ones but at the same time, with what i'm using to "ride" the bike, i'm not having good references. So, just my 2 cents but thanks again IMT great jobs, the Rothmans livery is awesome.  :) :)

If i had something to say, it will be about two point( not essential ) :
1. the pit limiter is not implemented at least, it doesn' work for me
2. when inside view but not helmet view, i have my shoulders getting on the way to look at corners.

Keep up !!


Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Italian Mod Team on January 07, 2018, 10:52:59 PM
Hi !

And thanks IMT for that MMX mod.  ;D
Love it as DD says (actually, it's him who pushed me this afternoon to give it a try and he was right)  ;)

It's hard on braking, went on my favorite track (NC - Mugello) and even if i have a poor controller, at least i can compare to the other bikes i did used and i really like it. Love the 2 stroke anyway so i'm not objective.
Didn't felt harder out the curves than the other ones but at the same time, with what i'm using to "ride" the bike, i'm not having good references. So, just my 2 cents but thanks again IMT great jobs, the Rothmans livery is awesome.  :) :)

If i had something to say, it will be about two point( not essential ) :
1. the pit limiter is not implemented at least, it doesn' work for me
2. when inside view but not helmet view, i have my shoulders getting on the way to look at corners.

Keep up !!

Thx for the feedback, Its not the best day for the team, never see nothing like this in many years. And I dont know if the team will be alive tomorrow  ;D

But anyway thx all guys for the comments, the bike is not perfect, its just a good start.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Wimp #97 on January 07, 2018, 11:16:01 PM
Wimp or Vin pls a quicky bike test with this setting:

Quote
FrontLatDamping =   8.5

In the bike cgf.

Its just a little test for see the we have the same sensibility at the changes.

Feels like the bike is "lighter" is some sence. Idk what it is exactly because I don't feel much difference when I try going faster but it just feels lighter. It felt like direction changes were easier although you can also manipulate that by throttle control (which I do when a bike doesn't want to change direction).
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Italian Mod Team on January 07, 2018, 11:21:13 PM
Wimp or Vin pls a quicky bike test with this setting:

Quote
FrontLatDamping =   8.5

In the bike cgf.

Its just a little test for see the we have the same sensibility at the changes.

Feels like the bike is "lighter" is some sence. Idk what it is exactly because I don't feel much difference when I try going faster but it just feels lighter. It felt like direction changes were easier although you can also manipulate that by throttle control (which I do when a bike doesn't want to change direction).

Perfect answer  ;) its first step.  :)
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: uberslug on January 07, 2018, 11:36:28 PM
Firstly, thank you for modding this bike!
I see no problem with the brakes.
I see no problem with the handling, is good.
The tyres are good, but if anything a little too good. I would be happier to have a bit less grip.

Engine characteristics does seem wrong though - I would expect this bike to have a powerband suited to the pipes, but it is so linear as if the expansion pipes are just straight tubes. Feels more like a 4 stroke. Riding in a straight line on half throttle, say 2nd or 3rd gear, the bike accelerates uniformly throughout the rev range. Pick the Cagiva and try the same thing - completely different. I know this bike is more manageable than the old 500s, but even Wayne Gardner says the Suter is still a hard bike to ride. This feels too easy.  If you change the engine characteristics to more of a 2 stroke powerband it will be a big improvement.

Thanks

NO, SYD, NO!!! I was able to ride a full tank of fuel on Motegi at the fastest lap times I have ever achieved with the only changes to the set up being the fuel level and one click up on rebound damping. Even when the rear wheel was spinning and I had to check the throttle coming out of corners I was able to lap within a few tenths of my fastest time. Any changes to make it more like the old 500s would spoil it for me.

My vote is to keep it as it is with the possible exception of allowing more pressure in the rear tire as temps were in the low 50s when riding around in the 1:59 range while trying to limit wheel spin. The power delivery reminds me of the 1988 CR250R, very linear power delivery from low to high rpm.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Wimp #97 on January 07, 2018, 11:38:07 PM


Perfect answer  ;) its first step.  :)

Whew, thats nice, I actually feel what i'm supposed to feel :D
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Italian Mod Team on January 07, 2018, 11:53:28 PM
Copy/paste from the other thread

I repeat we not want nice feedbacks, because we know that the bike is not great, but any IMT bikes in the 1.0 version are very different from the final. Some feedback are very "subjective" example DD has a different controller for the brake. So the real data on the brakes works very well with the DD's HS3. maybe less with gamepad.

The bikes seems heavy also if is very light (easy fix this) the engine looks more 4s that 2s,  Its a little unstable in braking and other little things. Dont worry we can fix all this stuff.

Who want help us with tests in next days is welcome.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Syd on January 08, 2018, 08:10:30 AM

NO, SYD, NO!!! I was able to ride a full tank of fuel on Motegi at the fastest lap times I have ever achieved with the only changes to the set up being the fuel level and one click up on rebound damping. Even when the rear wheel was spinning and I had to check the throttle coming out of corners I was able to lap within a few tenths of my fastest time. Any changes to make it more like the old 500s would spoil it for me.

My vote is to keep it as it is with the possible exception of allowing more pressure in the rear tire as temps were in the low 50s when riding around in the 1:59 range while trying to limit wheel spin. The power delivery reminds me of the 1988 CR250R, very linear power delivery from low to high rpm.

Lol! Well, we have to find a way to slow you down, you are winning too many races lately!

Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Syd on January 08, 2018, 08:22:28 AM
Copy/paste from the other thread

I repeat we not want nice feedbacks, because we know that the bike is not great, but any IMT bikes in the 1.0 version are very different from the final. Some feedback are very "subjective" example DD has a different controller for the brake. So the real data on the brakes works very well with the DD's HS3. maybe less with gamepad.

The bikes seems heavy also if is very light (easy fix this) the engine looks more 4s that 2s,  Its a little unstable in braking and other little things. Dont worry we can fix all this stuff.

Who want help us with tests in next days is welcome.

Thats a good point about subjective feedback. I just remembered I have brake set at 95% max in settings. And I am sure everyone has different various settings (maybe even aids turned on?), different controllers with their own settings etc.
Perhaps feedback should only be given with a list of the testers' settings.

I would like to help with tests.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: davidboda46 on January 08, 2018, 09:49:57 AM
As you might know by now, I use a custom controller (like DD but not as fancy) and for my rig the brakes work well. They feel realistic, meaning I can't slam the front brake all the way without going superman, or loosing the front if the bike is at a lean angle. According to me this is the way it should be. Never ridden a bike IRL where you could brake 100% at speed without getting in to trouble (and trust me, I have painfully experienced what happens when you target fixate and panic brake like a scared rabbit). Don't know about gamepads, maybe the trigger range is too short for it to feel modulated enough. Maybe it is possible to adjust this in the controller settings (I understand if it is a hassle to do for individually for different bikes)? Wonder if it's possible to add individual control settings that is automatically loaded when you select a bike model? Might be a good suggestion for Piboso? Personally I adjust the throttle linearity depending on which bike I'm riding.

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46     
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: KliPPiE on January 08, 2018, 09:59:18 AM
You know what IMT for the sake of me writing sucha  forward response and me having such a "problem" with it sig me up to test because i really think this bike can become a proper racing bike that everybody enjoys.

Wimp and myself have already had some serious battles on this machine and I would love to make it better.

Apologies for my forward response.

Edit: I have removed my rude comments.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Stout Johnson on January 08, 2018, 10:25:35 AM
Apologies for my forward response.

Edit: I have removed my rude comments.
I take my hat off to you for being able to admit to your fault. Unfortunately, in the age of keyboard warriors this only happens rarely.

General speaking, please all stay respectful to modders. They have put a lot of work into creating stuff you would not have otherwise. It is a total surplus. If you do not like at all, then don't bother. If you have criticism, then give it in objective and respectful manner.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Davide74 on January 08, 2018, 10:38:28 AM
Thanks IMT!
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Italian Mod Team on January 08, 2018, 01:33:50 PM
Anyway the servers are online... an other fun day.

(http://cdn.gelestatic.it/deejay/www/2015/08/200-1.gif)
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: matty0l215 on January 08, 2018, 06:21:49 PM
Just had my first go on the bike

Fun to ride.

When at full lean the bike does seem to be unstable, it is not as it can still be controlled but it wriggles about a bit.

Still, Good work guys :)

p.s. Oh and the breaks are a little snatchy, Still with practice that can be tamed :)

EDIT: sorry missclick.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: matty0l215 on January 08, 2018, 09:01:01 PM
The high lean instability could be to do with your chassis stifness. Try reducing front lateral stifness to about 850 and give it another go
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Italian Mod Team on January 08, 2018, 10:20:32 PM
The high lean instability could be to do with your chassis stifness. Try reducing front lateral stifness to about 850 and give it another go

I meant that the feedback are a lot, and it is complex find the right way. Anyway its not hard found the right fixes, its hard understand what are the real issues.

EDIT: Deleted OT posts.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: speedfr on January 08, 2018, 11:58:59 PM
Hi !

So tonight after seing the IMT Mugello server on Suter MMX i couldn't resist and went on the server. Alone but still, i couldn't resist, i have to admit doc'  :P

And i even did a little video to celebrate  ;D. I want to try what OBS would give with GP Bikes.
I need to go back to setup because the image downscaled from 1440 to 1080 is crappy. That's the word.
But, i had to do it and i'll post it (5 mn Third person and C).
On other software way more heavy than GP Bikes i had better result, need to find where is the issue from.

And because good things never comes alone (kidding) , i killed my controller... now i have to go back to Joystick... Somebody gives me a rope pls
And actually, "his death" is filmed since it happened during this very video. I can't wait to received DD's parts...
On this video, no helps except clutch and no rear bake  :-[

Thanks again IMT for the bike, Manu and Julien113 for the Moto 2 2017 part (Fabio) without forgetting Hawk for the circuit !!

https://www.youtube.com/v/57yuI6YzbYM

(can't find the correct way to display the video)

IMT EDIT: Done  ;)


 :) :) :) thanks (copying it for next...)
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: matty0l215 on January 09, 2018, 11:14:29 AM
The high lean instability could be to do with your chassis stifness. Try reducing front lateral stifness to about 850 and give it another go

I meant that the feedback are a lot, and it is complex find the right way. Anyway its not hard found the right fixes, its hard understand what are the real issues.

EDIT: Deleted OT posts.

Ahh i understand :)
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: BOBR6 84 on January 09, 2018, 12:56:09 PM
Nice bike, thanks  8)

No problems with braking for me.. actually feels good. I used 16 and 18..  no real issues other than the bike feels hard to change direction. I set the fork offset to -3 as i always do.. and the ride hight to 2-3 front 5-6 rear.. swingarm pivot set to 2. No other changes apart from fuel.

Feels about as id expect being a 2 stroke with new chassis, suspension and tires lol.

Id like the engine to be a bit more brutal and the bike a bit more flickable.. but its nice to try different setups to see if the mod responds first.. cheers
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Tosteetos on January 09, 2018, 03:06:57 PM
Agree with many, engine needs a bit more power, bike should be wheeling on 3rd easily, otherwise I really enjoy this bike. looking forward to the updates.Thank you for your support of this community with quality content IMT.  ;)
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: doubledragoncc on January 09, 2018, 03:19:49 PM
Agree with many, engine needs a bit more power, bike should be wheeling on 3rd easily, otherwise I really enjoy this bike. looking forward to the updates.Thank you for your support of this community with quality content IMT.  ;)

I just want to ask if you have riden this bike in real life and can therefore say "it should wheelie in 3rd gear"? Such input needs to be factual and not "how you imagine it should be"

I say this as many critics seem to be from pure imagination and not factual from havin riden this bike.

To help the modders, people should say if they have actually riden the bike in real life and they are not just "I think it should be...."

Not putting anyone down but this is a sim built on facts not what you THINK

DD
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: KG_03 on January 09, 2018, 03:30:20 PM
I agree. That is exactly what I thought today.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Italian Mod Team on January 09, 2018, 04:41:59 PM
no real issues other than the bike feels hard to change direction.

Yep this is the first issue. We have a full feedback from a tester, and the "issues" are clear now, asap news. (for sure days because at the moment we are busy with the job)  ;)
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: badexample69 on January 12, 2018, 10:55:43 PM
Hi everyone, what is up with all the drama on here? The bike is friggin awesome! It is a beta version and already better than anything out there! Why you guys bitching about free content? The bike makes 195 horses, weigh 127 KG and it is electronically fuel injected. It is made for the 1% out there that don't ride like Rossi. You guys were expecting a 2 stroke from the good old days which was unrideable? Have you seen the engineering on this thing? It is a modern 2 stroke that is easy to ride fast ! Going to have fun this week-end! Thanks a lot IMT! 8)
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: badexample69 on January 12, 2018, 11:01:30 PM
So, I agree on Klippie, but not with how he said it. First of all: my problems are 1. the sound 2. the handling 3. the powerband
1. It sounds like a 125ccm. It should be way deeper from the sound and not so screaming. You could share the sound and we may take it for the Mito 125ccm ;)

2. The bike feels like a brick. It is pretty good at turning in, but still not as fast and light as you would expect from a bike, that weighs as much as a 125ccm 2 or 4 stroke. The worst problem is accerlating out of a corner. The bike just goes straight and does not want to turn. You really get wide and this will definetley not be the case in real life, I can not imagine.

3.It feels like a 4-stroke, even though I am not having such a huge problem with this, since the new MMX500 is so well made, that there is no power hole. Just give it a lil bit of a hole and then it should be nice.

The engine is EFI. There is no power "hole" anymore just like the new KTM 250 TPI.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: guigui404 on January 12, 2018, 11:15:30 PM
Don't really understand each statement about how is the feeling of the bike in curve .. Because I guess that 100% people saying this never rode this bike in real .. so how could you now it isn't like this in real ?
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Italian Mod Team on January 12, 2018, 11:58:17 PM
Don't really understand each statement about how is the feeling of the bike in curve .. Because I guess that 100% people saying this never rode this bike in real .. so how could you now it isn't like this in real ?

Because with the rider on it,  is just about 200kg.

Anyway the update will be just with some little improvements nothing extreme.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: badexample69 on January 13, 2018, 05:47:15 AM
The bike needs indeed more power in the game. Most feedback of the riders that actually rode the thing need to constantly move around to keep the front wheel down not having any electronic aids. Being a V4 configuration and a 2 stroke, the bike flickability should be off the chart as well. The Aprilia RSV4 is insane. I can't even imagine that bike! Incredible Machinery.

Don't forget to add them on Facebook.

https://www.facebook.com/suter500/

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e77/sethenslow/CjZYaJUW0AAfnwY_zpslxsgdgkv.jpg) (http://s37.photobucket.com/user/sethenslow/media/CjZYaJUW0AAfnwY_zpslxsgdgkv.jpg.html)

Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: 2tfanatic on January 13, 2018, 07:06:07 PM
There's a v6 2 stroke bike running around too on google :)
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Hawk on January 13, 2018, 09:28:27 PM
"4 strokes are 4 grandmothers"....... LOVE IT! Hehe! ;D ;D
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Tosteetos on January 13, 2018, 10:57:22 PM
Agree with many, engine needs a bit more power, bike should be wheeling on 3rd easily, otherwise I really enjoy this bike. looking forward to the updates.Thank you for your support of this community with quality content IMT.  ;)

I just want to ask if you have riden this bike in real life and can therefore say "it should wheelie in 3rd gear"? Such input needs to be factual and not "how you imagine it should be"

I say this as many critics seem to be from pure imagination and not factual from havin riden this bike.

To help the modders, people should say if they have actually riden the bike in real life and they are not just "I think it should be...."

Not putting anyone down but this is a sim built on facts not what you THINK

DD

Not talking about what I THINK,  you don't have to go far to know this, anyone who knows how a 2 stroke behaves knows. >>  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3xrTFQXPGo Also, were the Moto GP bikes here ridden by anyone before being modded for GP Bikes? I'm not the only one saying this bike needs more power read the other comments. 
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Italian Mod Team on January 13, 2018, 11:23:07 PM
The ""power limitation"" was obviously wanted by us, because the mmx500 has been tested in spa francorchamps (Eau Rouge...) Anyway the bike has just a engine map less rude, the power it's right.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Tosteetos on January 13, 2018, 11:39:55 PM
I'm referring to the mapping. That's what dictates where you put the power, the bike feels flat in 3rd+ gear. It is a 2 stroke. 
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Italian Mod Team on January 13, 2018, 11:45:10 PM
It is a 2T.

 ???
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: uberslug on January 13, 2018, 11:52:55 PM
I'm referring to the mapping. That's what dictates where you put the power, the bike feels flat in 3rd+ gear. It is a 2T.

IIRC most of the 500 GP demigods, mechanics, and engine designers spent countless thousands of hours trying to tame the 500cc two stroke engine to make it more tractable and user friendly. Honda's Big Bang [a concept still in use today in the Desmocedici, the RC213V, the M1, etc., etc., etc] engines of the early 90s and their power valve of 97. Just because it feels flat doesn't mean it isn't accelerating.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Tosteetos on January 13, 2018, 11:58:19 PM
You are right uberslug, the bike is plenty fast, but the power delivery is fairly flat, this is not characteristic of this bike is what I meant.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: uberslug on January 14, 2018, 12:14:02 AM
From the articles I have read about the port control valves the intention of the designers was to provide as wide and flat power delivery as possible. This is also the reasoning behind it being 576cc.

"The formerly 56 x 50.5mm engine is stroked 8mm in the interest of making genuine 500cc GP horsepower without having to run sky-high compression, find original $32-a-liter chemistry-set no-lead gasoline or turn a zillion crankshaft-eating rpm (can you say “isopentane, MTBE, toluene, triptane, and iso-octane”?)."

"A Mec-Tronic ECU manages fueling through four unitized EFI throttle bodies atop carbon reed valve intakes. Engine torque curve is broadened at the bottom by the period-correct variable-height exhaust port technology."


Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Tosteetos on January 14, 2018, 12:36:40 AM
Did you guys watch the video from the actual bike?  This thing wheelies on 4th.  This is what I meant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3xrTFQXPGo

Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Tosteetos on January 14, 2018, 01:00:39 AM
Also, the bike is not turning right, it pushes like crazy on the exits. It just wants to keep going straight coming out of corners. Someone suggested using the rear brakes but that will only help with turn in, not with corner exit.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: badexample69 on January 14, 2018, 01:08:30 AM
Did you guys watch the video from the actual bike?  This thing wheelies on 4th.  This is what I meant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3xrTFQXPGo

Totally, the dude short shift the bike like hell to keep the front wheel on the tarmac. The bike needs more cojones! It will also add to the funfactor and gameplay!  The power to weight ratio is pretty stupid. I also noticed an issue with the front maybe? It seem that the bike under steer even with a 10mm shim on the rear????? Anybody else noticed that? Rake and trail maybe? :(
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Tosteetos on January 14, 2018, 01:09:51 AM
^^
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: badexample69 on January 14, 2018, 01:13:13 AM
Also, the bike is not turning right, it pushes like crazy on the exits. It just wants to keep going straight coming out of corners.


That guy is right^^^ :)

Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Syd on January 14, 2018, 10:01:46 AM
The ""power limitation"" was obviously wanted by us, because the mmx500 has been tested in spa francorchamps (Eau Rouge...) Anyway the bike has just a engine map less rude, the power it's right.
Agreed the engine has a less rude map than the old 500s, but the power delivery does still seem wrong. It doesn't take much effort to google some Suter riders' opinions and quotes saying there is a powerband, if a broader one than the old bikes. I hope you update it to a 2t engine. Please!


Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: uberslug on January 14, 2018, 01:02:28 PM
The ""power limitation"" was obviously wanted by us, because the mmx500 has been tested in spa francorchamps (Eau Rouge...) Anyway the bike has just a engine map less rude, the power it's right.
Agreed the engine has a less rude map than the old 500s, but the power delivery does still seem wrong. It doesn't take much effort to google some Suter riders' opinions and quotes saying there is a powerband, if a broader one than the old bikes. I hope you update it to a 2t engine. Please!

Perhaps the answer is to have multiple mappings just like the MotoGP bikes? That way I can happily slug it around while the 2Ters can happily loop it in fourth gear. The current mapping allows me to hoist the front end up in second and hold longish [for me anyway] third gear power wheelies without worrying about falling off the back.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Tosteetos on January 14, 2018, 01:40:08 PM
 First of all, to the IMT,  Please understand we are not bashing the bike or your work. -- I personally love everything you put out and have the greatest respect for you and all modders-- We are, however, collectively trying to refine it. And that is to be expected being this project community driven. I think this bike is shaping out to be a master piece of your work, and I'm excited to see and use the final product.

I do think that if you develop for your community (not for yourself,) you should expect constructive feedback. The little time I have in the community, the pride everyone takes in the fact that this is a simulator, is always above everything else, and I love that. There's nothing quite like GPB out there. I was just called out asking if my input was based on having personally ridden the bike in real life. I think that was silly because I'm sure not one of the Moto GP bikes modders has thrown a leg over one, but I applaud it because we want this to be as close to the real deal as possible. So obviously the community is passionate about keeping this sim true to what Piboso intended. Again, I applaud that. Because this is the most serious Sim, is the reason I'm here.

With that being said, I don't think that the answer "The ""power limitation"" was obviously wanted by us" embodies what this sim and community is about.  We can't "want" a power limitation if it is not there to begin with, just because the bike is easier to ride. The challenge in this is to be able to ride the bike with all of its original character and for the bike to be as true to it's original design as possible.

Just my humble opinion. 
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Italian Mod Team on January 14, 2018, 04:20:51 PM
Perhaps the answer is to have multiple mappings just like the MotoGP bikes? That way I can happily slug it around while the 2Ters can happily loop it in fourth gear. The current mapping allows me to hoist the front end up in second and hold longish [for me anyway] third gear power wheelies without worrying about falling off the back.

You dont know well this community  ;D

If we had done the bike wheeling also in 4 gear, the 50% of the posts here they would have been: "the bike is unrideable, it flip ever and ever".

Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: badexample69 on January 16, 2018, 01:31:25 AM
First of all, to the IMT,  Please understand we are not bashing the bike or your work. -- I personally love everything you put out and have the greatest respect for you and all modders-- We are, however, collectively trying to refine it. And that is to be expected being this project community driven. I think this bike is shaping out to be a master piece of your work, and I'm excited to see and use the final product.

I do think that if you develop for your community (not for yourself,) you should expect constructive feedback. The little time I have in the community, the pride everyone takes in the fact that this is a simulator, is always above everything else, and I love that. There's nothing quite like GPB out there. I was just called out asking if my input was based on having personally ridden the bike in real life. I think that was silly because I'm sure not one of the Moto GP bikes modders has thrown a leg over one, but I applaud it because we want this to be as close to the real deal as possible. So obviously the community is passionate about keeping this sim true to what Piboso intended. Again, I applaud that. Because this is the most serious Sim, is the reason I'm here.


With that being said, I don't think that the answer "The ""power limitation"" was obviously wanted by us" embodies what this sim and community is about.  We can't "want" a power limitation if it is not there to begin with, just because the bike is easier to ride. The challenge in this is to be able to ride the bike with all of its original character and for the bike to be as true to it's original design as possible.

Just my humble opinion.


Amen!!!!
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: badexample69 on January 16, 2018, 01:34:26 AM
Perhaps the answer is to have multiple mappings just like the MotoGP bikes? That way I can happily slug it around while the 2Ters can happily loop it in fourth gear. The current mapping allows me to hoist the front end up in second and hold longish [for me anyway] third gear power wheelies without worrying about falling off the back.

You dont know well this community  ;D

If we had done the bike wheeling also in 4 gear, the 50% of the posts here they would have been: "the bike is unrideable, it flip ever and ever".



The WSBK 17 Panigale is a wheelie monster and I enjoy the crap out of it! If they're not happy,they can ride the others bikes with a flat curve!! Unleash the beast already ITM! I want that 8 bits pizza too! :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=83IkFuD0-rw

ADD

  (http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e77/sethenslow/testicle-ballsack-airsoft-adapt-3d-model-stl_zpsnjdcelb6.jpg) (http://s37.photobucket.com/user/sethenslow/media/testicle-ballsack-airsoft-adapt-3d-model-stl_zpsnjdcelb6.jpg.html)


=


(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e77/sethenslow/Suter-MMX-500-Isle-of-Man-TT_zps381qncvl.jpg) (http://s37.photobucket.com/user/sethenslow/media/Suter-MMX-500-Isle-of-Man-TT_zps381qncvl.jpg.html)

=


(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e77/sethenslow/METAL_detail1_1024x1024_zps72ifiz0g.jpg) (http://s37.photobucket.com/user/sethenslow/media/METAL_detail1_1024x1024_zps72ifiz0g.jpg.html)

Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Italian Mod Team on January 16, 2018, 09:56:20 PM
 ;D

Ok... asap the new build, we will work on it in a few days.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: badexample69 on January 18, 2018, 03:24:34 AM
;D

Ok... asap the new build, we will work on it in a few days.

Really awesome ITM!  8)
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Luponius on January 23, 2018, 04:36:01 PM
I'm looking forward to the next version, if I can't keep it on the road, I know it's gone in the right direction, and that's for me to contend with  ;D ;)  It's always fun working towards taming a beast!
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Tosteetos on January 27, 2018, 02:03:36 PM
Looking forward to tomorrows release of this beast!  ;D
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Italian Mod Team on January 27, 2018, 02:24:27 PM
Looking forward to tomorrows release of this beast!  ;D

Today the mmx500 1.1 and WorldSBK 2017 1.4  :)

We're a little early... for the first time.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: Tosteetos on January 27, 2018, 02:25:34 PM
Heck yeah! bring them beauties out! ;D
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500
Post by: connorhall70 on January 27, 2018, 03:09:10 PM
Looking forward to tomorrows release of this beast!  ;D

Today the mmx500 1.1 and WorldSBK 2017 1.4  :)

We're a little early... for the first time.


Great. cant wait to use them :)
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: Italian Mod Team on January 27, 2018, 03:45:05 PM
Suter MMX500 version 1.1 released, link for download in the first post.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: KG_03 on January 27, 2018, 04:57:22 PM
YEAH!!!! Thank you ! :-D
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: KG_03 on January 27, 2018, 05:45:14 PM
The new bike feels fantastic now. I have found two issues:
-the LED RPM light and RPM on the dashboard in onboard camera do not match. The engine hits the RPM limiter and still there are no red LED light and the dashboard stops in the middle of RPM indicator
-I cant downshift - when I press the downshift button the gear stays in the same place. It happens between 2nd-3rd and 4th gear. Probably occurs when the rear wheel rizes up under hard braking.

Thank you for your hard work. If feels like a tornado now. Love it.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: Vini on January 27, 2018, 06:02:22 PM
handling is quite good now but the engine is still very strange. still feels too linear and torque-less. also the limiter is too low compared to the powerpeak. just when you get into full power, you have to upshift in order to avoid the limiter.
the gearbox is a bit better but still not really suited for manual revmatching.
IMO you should just copy the engine and gearbox from some other GP500 bike.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: KG_03 on January 27, 2018, 06:23:47 PM
Vini97 keep in min that its the 2stroke engine with fuel injection not like old gp500 bike. Read the review of MMX500 bike and ppl say it has the culture of a 4 stroke but the power of 2 stroke.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: Vini on January 27, 2018, 06:28:40 PM
doesn't really make sense. the 2t powerband is not caused by carbs/FI but the simple fact that the exhaust can only be tuned to create maximum back pressure at one given frequency/RPM. you can inject all the fuel you want in the lower revs if the air to required to burn it is just going out the exhaust....
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: speedfr on January 27, 2018, 07:57:57 PM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D

Great, go to dl asap !!!

Thank you guys !! :-*
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: Hawk on January 27, 2018, 09:16:51 PM
Hmm... I find it strange that the engine model of the 90's GP250 2 stroke bikemods was just the same yet only myself and a couple of other guys suggested it ran with a  4 stroke engine power characteristic and should be altered more to reality for the era of the bikes, yet so many riders here seem to be wrongly jumping on this like a ton of bricks with the MMX500 BikeMOD?

The MMX500 engine power-band according to the riders feedback that have tested the real bike all say that it has a much more gradual progressive power-curve with much more torque at the lower rev ranges than the old GP500 bikes of the 80's and 90's..... The MMX is what it is.... It's not an old school GP500 engine(unfortunately), it's a typical bastardized modern electronically controlled abomination of a true 2 stroke engine in my opinion. :P
Any old school rider can see and hear from the published videos of rider tests with the real MMX 500 that it certainly isn't anything like the old school GP500's.... You can hear the power-curve and characteristics are totally different to the old school GP500 narrow power-bands that came in with a bit of a bang back in those good old days.

Personally for sports events I think they should stop any electronically controlling performance enhancing devices being used.... As far as I'm concerned it's cheating and tantamount to an athlete taking performance enhancing drugs! Let's get back to a pure marriage of man and machine and let true talents shine brightly again! ;) 8)
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: speedfr on January 27, 2018, 09:24:48 PM

Personally for sports events I think they should stop any electronically controlling performance enhancing devices being used.... As far as I'm concerned it's cheating and tantamount to an athlete taking performance enhancing drugs! Let's get back to a pure marriage of man and machine and let true talents shine brightly again! ;) 8)

ahhh, if only....  :o
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: Italian Mod Team on January 28, 2018, 06:02:17 AM
The new bike feels fantastic now. I have found two issues:
-the LED RPM light and RPM on the dashboard in onboard camera do not match. The engine hits the RPM limiter and still there are no red LED light and the dashboard stops in the middle of RPM indicator
-I cant downshift - when I press the downshift button the gear stays in the same place. It happens between 2nd-3rd and 4th gear. Probably occurs when the rear wheel rizes up under hard braking.

Thank you for your hard work. If feels like a tornado now. Love it.

Ups the engine is changed with max rpm at 13k need to update the gfx file :P

Tomorrow a fix for this.

The second issue, its not a mod issue; in GP Bikes with bumps, above curbs and when the rear wheel not touch the ground you can't change gear.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: Italian Mod Team on January 28, 2018, 07:49:11 AM
Here the fix for the rpm lights, not care about rpm numbers in the dash because it was created with the old engine specs. 
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: KG_03 on January 28, 2018, 09:56:33 AM
Thank you! 😊
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: speedfr on January 28, 2018, 10:53:16 AM
Here the fix for the rpm lights, not care about rpm numbers in the dash because it was created with the old engine specs.

Nice and quick fix !
Did give a try yesterday night with KG13 joining me on Mugello ( :-*) , the behavior of the bike changed but as i said, i can't judge or say anything compare to the engine itself, my controller (joystick + pedals from my thrusmaster wheel  :o :o :o ) is too crappy to be able to says anything interesting.
But it was fun and a good test of the Beta 13. Still have to work on the Trainer part.

Thanks IMT !

Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: badexample69 on January 29, 2018, 03:43:14 AM
Thank you :P guys @ IMT. Love the update of the Suter and the WSBK pack! Really awesome!  8)

(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e77/sethenslow/goodpizza_zpsxnctkil3.jpg) (http://s37.photobucket.com/user/sethenslow/media/goodpizza_zpsxnctkil3.jpg.html)


Donald Trump approved! The Suter finally got some balls!
(http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e77/sethenslow/insane-donald-trump-balls_zps14heaa9w.jpg) (http://s37.photobucket.com/user/sethenslow/media/insane-donald-trump-balls_zps14heaa9w.jpg.html)

Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: badexample69 on January 29, 2018, 03:55:25 AM
doesn't really make sense. the 2t powerband is not caused by carbs/FI but the simple fact that the exhaust can only be tuned to create maximum back pressure at one given frequency/RPM. you can inject all the fuel you want in the lower revs if the air to required to burn it is just going out the exhaust....


Living in Canada, the major brands of snowmobile are mostly all EFI. You get a more linear, smoother powerband without being slower. With the right mapping, it normally idle better than any carb engine with no boggyness down low. It just rips!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdeGRGTvwPs
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: janaucarre on January 29, 2018, 09:19:03 PM
Hi,
Thank you for this great bike.
I like the sound before v1. 1, it's sounded much dirty.
The problem for downshifting can be repeated each lap at same place.
Thank you.
Bathurst with this is crazy.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: Italian Mod Team on January 29, 2018, 09:25:56 PM
Hi,
Thank you for this great bike.
I like the sound before v1. 1, it's sounded much dirty.
The problem for downshifting can be repeated each lap at same place.
Thank you.
Bathurst with this is crazy.

You can download the sounds from the UC database or from an other bike, samples and scl files are not a problem online.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: KG_03 on February 01, 2018, 04:19:33 PM
The new bike feels fantastic now. I have found two issues:
-the LED RPM light and RPM on the dashboard in onboard camera do not match. The engine hits the RPM limiter and still there are no red LED light and the dashboard stops in the middle of RPM indicator
-I cant downshift - when I press the downshift button the gear stays in the same place. It happens between 2nd-3rd and 4th gear. Probably occurs when the rear wheel rizes up under hard braking.

Thank you for your hard work. If feels like a tornado now. Love it.
The second issue, its not a mod issue; in GP Bikes with bumps, above curbs and when the rear wheel not touch the ground you can't change gear.

After playing some other bikes I have noticed that I can do a stoppie and still change gears. But in case of Suter the downshift is impossible even when the rear wheel is touching the ground.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: Italian Mod Team on February 01, 2018, 05:28:20 PM
After playing some other bikes I have noticed that I can do a stoppie and still change gears. But in case of Suter the downshift is impossible even when the rear wheel is touching the ground.

Checked now also with stoppies the bike change gear all the time.
   
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: KG_03 on February 01, 2018, 09:26:15 PM
True but in some situations the gear just do not drop down. On Mugello it was less visible but for example at Motegi at that fast backstraight it I couldn't drop 2-3 gears.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: KliPPiE on February 03, 2018, 01:16:04 PM
Wow, what a positive response to many negative feedback even from me, awesome update IMT great work !
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: BOBR6 84 on February 03, 2018, 08:39:47 PM
Braaaap  8)
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: Italian Mod Team on February 03, 2018, 08:45:57 PM
The servers are always empty... It's a success!  ::)

Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: Anders A on February 09, 2018, 02:42:53 PM
Cant join server, bike mismatch even after update to 1.1.
Someone any clues?
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: Italian Mod Team on February 09, 2018, 02:50:14 PM
Cant join server, bike mismatch even after update to 1.1.
Someone any clues?

Delete all files not copy the new version on the old one. Its not a update its a new version the 1.1.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: KliPPiE on February 10, 2018, 09:45:42 AM
In my opinion you have gone completely wrong on engine breaking for this thing because a 2 stroke doesn't have engine breaking or much compression and you telling me that this thing is supposed to back it in all on its own into a corner, no definitely not so please fix this for next version.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: Italian Mod Team on February 10, 2018, 11:34:47 AM
In my opinion you have gone completely wrong on engine breaking for this thing because a 2 stroke doesn't have engine breaking or much compression and you telling me that this thing is supposed to back it in all on its own into a corner, no definitely not so please fix this for next version.

(https://s17.postimg.org/lcej04lfj/engned_2018-02-10_12-46-05-08.png)
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: Italian Mod Team on February 10, 2018, 11:55:10 AM
True but in some situations the gear just do not drop down. On Mugello it was less visible but for example at Motegi at that fast backstraight it I couldn't drop 2-3 gears.

A fix for this issue will be in the next update.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: Italian Mod Team on February 10, 2018, 01:01:06 PM
Strange curve, the light blue indicates it makes a lot of power with the throttle shut off and very different to the reference 2T bikes. It may be that the engine management is masking power curve issues so its often worth a reference test with the bike cfg configured for no electronic aids.

(https://media.tenor.com/images/f65803b79ede65999ea4afa8eeec36c5/tenor.gif)


Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: KG_03 on February 10, 2018, 01:05:46 PM
True but in some situations the gear just do not drop down. On Mugello it was less visible but for example at Motegi at that fast backstraight it I couldn't drop 2-3 gears.

A fix for this issue will be in the next update.

Fantastic, thank you!
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: h106frp on February 10, 2018, 01:39:18 PM
Strange curve, the light blue indicates it makes a lot of power with the throttle shut off and very different to the reference 2T bikes. It may be that the engine management is masking power curve issues so its often worth a reference test with the bike cfg configured for no electronic aids.

(https://media.tenor.com/images/f65803b79ede65999ea4afa8eeec36c5/tenor.gif)

Must be wrong but I always thought the engine curve only described raw engine performance - was not a critism of the bike but won't bother to comment again.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: Italian Mod Team on February 10, 2018, 01:54:36 PM
Must be wrong but I always thought the engine curve only described raw engine performance - was not a critism of the bike but won't bother to comment again.

Why post here if you never tried this bike and you never opened the cfg?

Some comments are quite ridiculous, we are not interested in positive or negative things, but we do not want to read such stupid things.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: KliPPiE on February 10, 2018, 02:50:34 PM
IMT of all people i thought you would know about 2 strokes and that they run and do not engine break like crazy as represented in 1.1 because i enjoyed the first version more then this as the bikes power was not as realistic as now but the handling was way better and bike was stable into the corners...
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: Italian Mod Team on February 10, 2018, 03:53:50 PM
Wow, what a positive response to many negative feedback even from me, awesome update IMT great work !

IMT of all people i thought you would know about 2 strokes and that they run and do not engine break like crazy as represented in 1.1 because i enjoyed the first version more then this as the bikes power was not as realistic as now but the handling was way better and bike was stable into the corners...

Klippie... im sorry for you but its the same version of your first post...


Thread closed for excess of bullshit. If you dont like dont use it, also next bikes will be with the thread closed, no more strange feedback  ;D
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.1
Post by: Blackheart on October 09, 2018, 04:11:01 PM
Tonight a update for this bike (just a little file dont worry  ;))
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.2 (Beta 14)
Post by: Blackheart on October 09, 2018, 04:32:26 PM
Download Update 1.2 (Beta 14): Suter MMX500 v. 1.2 Update (https://mega.nz/#!M8IVkAYL!Ex3N7hkfI4fade1a8d3pjoG5mRT-az1ZJZAUrxISnj0)

Copy the file in the 500_Suter_MMX folder
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.2 (Beta 14)
Post by: Tosteetos on October 10, 2018, 03:35:19 PM
Hi, Blackheart. What was changed on this file? Just curious what is different on the bike.

Thanks!
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.2 (Beta 14)
Post by: Blackheart on October 10, 2018, 04:02:45 PM
Hi, Blackheart. What was changed on this file? Just curious what is different on the bike.

Thanks!

The main issues of this bike in this beta are braking instability and instability when you put the bike in the corner. The first the big issue of this beta and it is very visible because the bike is just 127kg, but i can't do too much for this.

I tried to make it slightly more manageable in the change directions, and now is possible slow down in less meters. It is far from the perfection but it is just a 1 hour update. It is yet a crazy beast, hard as hell.... but a little better.

I changed mainly chassis stiffness and the aerodynamic values increasing the downforce.

Imho few guys can ride this bike... and I like the idea of "impossible bike" ;D

Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.2 (Beta 14)
Post by: javiliyors on October 10, 2018, 04:34:18 PM
U can fix de downshifting, sometimes the bikes need to down 10 gears to 1st ... is similar to the truck... ;D thanks blackheart!!
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.2 (Beta 14)
Post by: Blackheart on October 10, 2018, 04:39:40 PM
U can fix de downshifting, sometimes the bikes need to down 10 gears to 1st ... is similar to the truck... ;D thanks blackheart!!

Right, also this is a big issue, not founded yet a solution, for sure the issue its in the clutch datas in the bike's cfg.

if someone will succeed to fix this problem before me, put here the solution  ;)

EDIT: ok fixed it

Before:

Quote
DisengageMaxTorque = 60

Tested

Quote
DisengageMaxTorque = 100

And works, i do some other tests before release this little update  8)
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.2 (Beta 14)
Post by: Blackheart on October 10, 2018, 05:30:55 PM
Download Update 1.2b (downshift fix, includes the 1.2 update): Suter MMX500 v. 1.2 Update (https://mega.nz/#!04RWkISb!8kjDP-STaVEKs_YVshFukDuRjC3Bs1LE2XIQ7hjR2wg)

Copy the file in the 500_Suter_MMX folder
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.2b (Beta 14)
Post by: javiliyors on October 10, 2018, 06:36:18 PM
thanks blackheart
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.2b (Beta 14)
Post by: Blackheart on October 10, 2018, 09:03:00 PM
I need some testers  ::)

I've Wimp but he's the "not human" tester  ;D
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.2b (Beta 14)
Post by: Jorge Sprinter on October 11, 2018, 12:39:11 AM
I think the bike makes too much horse in excess and needs more weight in the front, otherwise it is very good
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.2b (Beta 14)
Post by: Blackheart on October 11, 2018, 01:00:05 AM
I think the bike makes too much horse in excess and needs more weight in the front, otherwise it is very good

The bike has real specs: 195hp less or more and about 127kg... I will never change anything about the engine power.


This feedback is about the test version (1.3) or 1.2b?

Because i need feeds about the 1.3 version not others.

thx
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.3 (Beta 14)
Post by: Blackheart on October 11, 2018, 09:53:49 AM
Release Version 1.3

This is not an update but its a full version (just delete the outdated version and install this one, delete old setups for avoid core.exe)

Changelog Version 1.3:

- New geometry (mainly weight distribution and new front susp).
- Improved  both suspensions.
- Changed again chassis stiffness.
- New tires (fixed sizes, now are a bit smaller in the phisics so the speed will be a bit lower), and increased the performance.



Some tips for not expert riders:

- ON\OFF with the throttle its not a good idea because the bike is very light and powerful.
- In downshift dont put the lower gears at high RPM.
- Use a little bit of the rear brake for increase the stability under hard braking (not too much!)
- Default front leverage is 18mm, but I recommend using 20mm.
- In the first lap the tires will be cold so... not push too much.


Download: https://mega.nz/#!YsghGIbK!E70avWOIxg_R-QOZ2J8WDdsmPjkyp-CNvzKkRqiooQ0



No more updates in the current Beta, this update is for have fun in the champ. So good luck with the "impossible bike" ;D
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.3 (Beta 14)
Post by: uberslug on October 11, 2018, 10:48:24 AM
What is the recommended front tire temperature range. The front was above 90 degrees on the sides and 100 in the middle within a four or five laps. The rear was staying between 55 and 65 degrees. I was lapping in the 1:39 range at Cheste which qualifies as slug like so I was a bit surprised to see such high temps on the front. I did not mess with any suspension settings or tire pressures nor was I braking all that hard.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.3 (Beta 14)
Post by: Blackheart on October 11, 2018, 11:29:51 AM
What is the recommended front tire temperature range. The front was above 90 degrees on the sides and 100 in the middle within a four or five laps. The rear was staying between 55 and 65 degrees. I was lapping in the 1:39 range at Cheste which qualifies as slug like so I was a bit surprised to see such high temps on the front. I did not mess with any suspension settings or tire pressures nor was I braking all that hard.

80 its the optimal for both but these tires can works well also with higher or lower temp because have a lot of grip. (10-15 degree are not a issue) I did now 2-3 fast laps in Jerez (1:38) and I have 75 rear and about 70 on front. with default setting. It depends a lot for from riding style.

1:39 to Cheste it is a little bit slow (I see Wimp do 1:28 with the old 1.2b) maybe you dont push too much on the rear. I know u use the 1st view so its normal have higher laps time, but the bike is tested with qually laps for understand the limit of the bike.

For sure in different tracks need change a bit pressure and setup. 

Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.3 (Beta 14)
Post by: uberslug on October 11, 2018, 12:44:57 PM
I will test at Jerez this evening and see what kind of temperatures I get.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.3 (Beta 14)
Post by: Blackheart on October 11, 2018, 12:54:04 PM
I will test at Jerez this evening and see what kind of temperatures I get.

Ah default the bike has (my forgetfulness) 18mm front Lev, try 20mm for a better feeling and in theory it could help you warm up the front a little less.  ;)
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.3 (Beta 14)
Post by: uberslug on October 11, 2018, 01:05:29 PM
Will do, thanks.
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.3 (Beta 14)
Post by: Tommaso Levato on October 13, 2018, 12:08:04 AM
My two cents: the bike feels quite "itchy" under braking, almost wobbling on the front tire so to speak. Interestingly, I get this behaviour with each of the three front brake leverage settings.

I have to say that the bike feels a little nervous also when putting the power down, but this is an old fixation of mine, so I'm not sure if this is the bike or just my riding style.

In any case, I really appreciate the effort, keep up the good work!
Title: Re: [Release] Suter MMX500 v. 1.3 (Beta 14)
Post by: Blackheart on October 13, 2018, 08:04:56 AM
For the front I can't do so much, because its a issue of this beta 14. Bikes with more kg have less this issue but there is.

In the next beta the work will be a full rework. Because this bike was for a old beta (very different) so also if I change a lot of things, can't be Perfect.