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General => Off Topic => Topic started by: speedfr on March 16, 2018, 08:10:36 PM

Title: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: speedfr on March 16, 2018, 08:10:36 PM
Surprised not to see any topic about the new season, i made this one.

And as a presage for the followings seasons, maybe they are prophets at Dorna (or Madame Irma  ;D) they made a mistake on the logo that displays after having a pilot action replay, here it is  8)

(https://zupimages.net/up/18/11/d341.jpg)

Everybody have good races !!!

Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: davidboda46 on March 16, 2018, 09:37:14 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: matty0l215 on March 16, 2018, 10:06:17 PM
Forza Ducati!! ;D
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: speedfr on March 16, 2018, 11:17:12 PM
Yes, incredible Petrux, the Gorilla is fast !

Can't wait, can't wait for Sunday...  :P :P :P
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: matty0l215 on March 18, 2018, 07:05:58 PM
Forza Ducati!! ;D

Comment stands! ;D
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: speedfr on March 19, 2018, 01:26:44 PM
Yep !

Dovi did a great and smart race, Rossi on the podium and Zarco needs to learn more but it's coming...
So sad for Rins, i hope he is going to kick Ianonne on his pride.
KTM was away... and Lorenzo is growling, this one should let Petrux get his place, at least he fight and gives a lot always with a smile.

And so happy for Peco to win his first race fighting with Balda. Good first week-end.  :D

See you in Argentina on April the 6th. 8)
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Blackheart on March 19, 2018, 03:31:08 PM
Great first race.


P.S. For Piboso  ;D

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/95/53/6b/95536b67450def0252de47624f4c2920.jpg)
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: KG_03 on March 19, 2018, 08:35:20 PM
I didnt believe that Rossi will be so high in the race. Fantastic race for Dovi. Cant wat to see next race :D
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: matty0l215 on April 08, 2018, 09:40:25 PM
What a Race!!

This is only race 2 and it just getts better and better.

Although that penelty was not harsh enough...
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: guigui404 on April 08, 2018, 09:41:57 PM
What a Race!!

This is only race 2 and it just getts better and better.

Although that penelty was not harsh enough...

30 seconds wasn't enough ?
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: matty0l215 on April 08, 2018, 09:46:24 PM
How about a black flag

This isn't the M2 championship ;) :P

But seriously, you can't go around bumping people when you are clearly much faster, get 2 previous penlties and do the EXACT same move as earlier and not expect it to go wrong. He needs to taught a lesson and although it may seem harsh but if it teches him to cool it off a bit.

What happened at the start was unfortunate and this wouldn't have happened if he has of started from the pit lane, but that was poor comunication between officials or it could be he flat out ignored the instruction.

Water under the bridge, That front 4 though. Man what a beauty and a joy to watch. Fuck any other prototype racing, this is racing ;D
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: guigui404 on April 08, 2018, 09:56:18 PM
It was just race , when you're 1 second faster than everybody and you need to overtake on a non completely dry track it happens
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: matty0l215 on April 08, 2018, 10:11:30 PM
Racing incident yes. Be easily an avoidbabl one and one that he keeps getting away with.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: uberslug on April 09, 2018, 12:06:33 AM
Racing incident yes. Be easily an avoidbabl one and one that he keeps getting away with.

I think Zarco and Petrucci should have been given penalties as well.

Rossi knew Marquez was coming and was two seconds a lap faster. If he had left the door open he wouldn't have ended up in the grass. He said he was struggling from lap two onwards so why did he feel he needed to protect the inside line given how pathetically slow he was all day.

I addition, Rossi has sent more people into the weeds in his career than everyone else combined.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: KG_03 on April 09, 2018, 06:12:47 AM
Black flag for MM would mean the same - no points. I really admire his style of riding but yesterday he lost his mind. He was riding like Iannone 2 years ago. Until someone gets hurt it might be attrctive to watch however it may end very badly. So as long as there is a time race direction should do sth.

Dovi raced smart - damage limitation.

As for Rossi. Just no words. I admire his achievements but, really hate this guy. Year by year he gets more toxic and what he said that Marquez destroyed this sport or he hits people on purpouse is ridiculous.

Did anyone know that Aleix Espargaro was probably hit again by Petrucci? I rally feel sorry for him. Also I feel sorry for Jack Miller...
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Meyer#12 on April 09, 2018, 07:29:06 AM
An amazing race if not Marc had been there to ruin it!

Amazing race at the front and a brilliant win for Cal, a little gutted for Miller though, he deserved a podium!

But where to start with Marc, totally out of line today! Those incidents was EASILY avoided! no excuse for him to do it 1 time and especially not 3-4 times!
He is out of line and it is not first time, this weekend already at friday he almost ran straight into Vinales making same hazardous braking.

If you are that much faster you know you can easily wait till next corner, which in this case was dry and much safer overtake. And at this level of racing, you do know that this was never going to work braking on the wet parts and trying to overtake someone on the DRY racing line that might not even know you will come flying up the inside.

I don't think Rossi was expecting him to be there at that point, he was coming from way far back and had caught Rossi very fast.

Not a Marc fan at all and have always thought he is a dangerours rider!

Ps. i do agree that Rossi's words after the race was a bit too much, but i don't think he is totally out of line saying Marc is dangerous. He just have no respect for others and for safety when it comes to passes.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Hawk on April 09, 2018, 08:43:41 AM
+1 Meyer....

Totally agree with everything you said there mate.  ;)

Personally I've always thought Marc was the sort of rider that Kenny Roberts always used to talk about when riding close to other riders in the pack: He used to talk about riders who you can trust and enjoy riding close with because you know they know what they are doing, but then there are riders you just don't want in the pack because they ride like idiots..... Marc is one of those idiots, and to be honest he's lucky he's racing in an era were the electronically controlled bikes these days saves a lot of riders from there own stupidity! If Marc would've been riding in Kenny Roberts era he'd be lucky to still be alive in my opinion, he's just a nutcase and a lucky one at that!! :P
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: matty0l215 on April 09, 2018, 08:47:25 AM
Zarco and Petruci is a bit different as they were at the same pace as the other riders.

No, they shouldnt have gotten away withoht a penelty. But no worse than Marc had (a 1 place drop)

Pesdrosa crash was unfortunate as it could be argued that "he highsided" the bike not Zarco. Zarco shouldnt have run him offline, which then the incidnet wouldnt have occoured so im not sure on that one.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: guigui404 on April 09, 2018, 08:53:08 AM
The problem is , Marquez is 1 second faster than everybody on this race and I totally agree what he just said in conference ? they let him start and then drive through ? It was surely the most dangerous decision knowing marquez was way way way faster that all the field , particulary when the track is a bit wet !

So Marquez need something for the next race like start last
For Rossi and his clan wao .. amazing , what can we say ? They guy that push a lot of rider , even recently in 2015 totally push Marquez , now trying to say us he's affraid of him ? don't think he's the rider to say it , the door was really open , and it was a slow corner , I really see 0 problem here , whereas espargaro could have said he was affraid .

I'm joining KG Rossi is the most toxic rider ever seen , we want wonderful battles on track , we don't want people and all you're fan talk dirty to everyone (Marquez,Lorenzo)
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Meyer#12 on April 09, 2018, 09:08:42 AM
The problem is , Marquez is 1 second faster than everybody on this race and I totally agree what he just said in conference ? they let him start and then drive through ? It was surely the most dangerous decision knowing marquez was way way way faster that all the field , particulary when the track is a bit wet !

So Marquez need something for the next race like start last
For Rossi and his clan wao .. amazing , what can we say ? They guy that push a lot of rider , even recently in 2015 totally push Marquez , now trying to say us he's affraid of him ? don't think he's the rider to say it , the door was really open , and it was a slow corner , I really see 0 problem here , whereas espargaro could have said he was affraid .

I'm joining KG Rossi is the most toxic rider ever seen , we want wonderful battles on track , we don't want people and all you're fan talk dirty to everyone (Marquez,Lorenzo)

This is not because i am a Rossi fan but because i am a racer myself. Rossi was on line, DRY LINE, and in that corner, that is the Line, Rossi is allowed to ride like he did, especially considering the conditions and when he had no idea Marc would come storming under braking from THAT FAR BACK, it was irresponsible of Marc trying like that when he knows the track is wet and greasy in there.

Also, Marc came from behind, he have the responsibility of making it a save pass and leaving room for Rossi which he clearly didn't, especially being that much faster it is even more his responsibility, Rossi shouldn't just let him pass because he is faster, it is still af "Fight" for positions.

I agree that Petrucci and maybe Zarco should have got a punishment, but here the situation is a lot different. For Zarco it was on one of the first laps, the conditions was still uncertain so that was a racing incident in my eyes, maybe drop a place but he didn't come from 50-100 meters behind like Marc, they was on same pace and none of them wanted to give in.

Just my 2cents. Not as a fan of anyone, but as a racer myself who have been in a situation almost like this.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Blackheart on April 09, 2018, 09:11:38 AM
Agree with Rossi, MM is very dangerous, in any weekend he hit other riders, but the race direction is worse. No blackflag for the absurd start... Nonsense.

He is the faster guy,  but he does not wait to understand where overtaking is safe.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: poumpouny on April 09, 2018, 09:19:59 AM
Racing is not only be able to ride fast, it is also being able to overtake, every body could race with qualy pace if you guy call that racing ! don't forget that marquez was not that fast on qually .........
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: uberslug on April 09, 2018, 09:47:08 AM
Rossi had to have known Marquez was going to dive bomb him in that corner for at least a lap. If he had chosen a wider, slower, line he wouldn't have ended up on the grass and it would have made no difference whatsoever in his overall placing. Instead, he let his massive ego dictate his actions and he ended up on the grass. Marquez should have known Rossi's ego would never admit he was that much slower so he shouldn't have forced the issue even if he was much faster through that turn.

As I see it Rossi bends the rules and situations to what 'he' thinks works best for him'. He left the door WIDE OPEN at Assen knowing full well Marquez was going to go for the win so he could 'be forced to go through the gravel' and take a much needed win. Suddenly now Marquez is 'dangerous' and bad for the sport. Someone ask Casey Stoner just how good Rossi is for the sport.

Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Meyer#12 on April 09, 2018, 10:05:42 AM
Rossi had to have known Marquez was going to dive bomb him in that corner for at least a lap. If he had chosen a wider, slower, line he wouldn't have ended up on the grass and it would have made no difference whatsoever in his overall placing. Instead, he let his massive ego dictate his actions and he ended up on the grass. Marquez should have known Rossi's ego would never admit he was that much slower so he shouldn't have forced the issue even if he was much faster through that turn.

As I see it Rossi bends the rules and situations to what 'he' thinks works best for him'. He left the door WIDE OPEN at Assen knowing full well Marquez was going to go for the win so he could 'be forced to go through the gravel' and take a much needed win. Suddenly now Marquez is 'dangerous' and bad for the sport. Someone ask Casey Stoner just how good Rossi is for the sport.

As a racer you would never expect someone to dive bomb you like that! Ridicolous to think like that... He came from way far back and has the FULL responsibility of the pass, that is how racing goes, the one in front have the choice of line.

This have nothing to do with admitting pace, Rossi said that he wasn't having the pace at all and that Marc was way faster than him.

I agree Rossi is not always the most clean rider, but many others aren't either. But Marquez is dangerous at points, especially when he is in the mood he was yesterday.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Blackheart on April 09, 2018, 10:06:51 AM
 Leave open the door and change your line with wet track in a motogp race? Because a rider 2 seconds faster can't overtake without mistakes?

I think the motorcycle races are not for you...
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: matty0l215 on April 09, 2018, 10:58:58 AM
No Marc was going insanly quicker and there was no need to barge up the inside of a rider like that no matter the skill level of that rider
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: uberslug on April 09, 2018, 11:57:14 AM
Really? Part of growing up is realizing when you are beaten [in this case quite badly] and making concessions in order to avoid an incident. Was Marquez in the wrong? Yes. Is Rossi better off for protecting an indefensible position when more rational men would have conceded in order to avoid potential conflict? I think not. Rossi knew exactly where Marquez was, how fast he was closing, and what would happen if he chose to 'ride by the rules'. Rossi isn't some clueless neophyte riding his first rodeo, he practically wrote the book on bad race antics.

There is a very good reason why I didn't pursue a long term professional cycling career. It mostly had to do with not being willing to behave badly in order to win. Head butting, wheel chopping, punching, and spitting were the nicer things I witnessed in the short time I was in a professional peloton. I decided if that is what it took to be a 'winner' then it was something I could live without [that and rampant PED usage]. I always preferred the more cerebral discipline of time trialing as the only true competitor I ever faced is myself.

In reality, MotoGP is just another thing we amuse ourselves with. If Marquez had 'done the right thing' and waited to pass Espargaro and Rossi, he STILL would have finished fifth AND he would have the point total to show for it. As it is, it was wonderfully entertaining and it has given all of the 'THAT'S NOT RIGHT' crowd something to whinge, complain, and pontificate about.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: poumpouny on April 09, 2018, 12:55:56 PM
Uberslug > defending position is part of racing, and you have to be able to overtake if you think you're faster, no mater how fast you are you have to make it without risking to crash somebody, crash also is part of racing but 3 contact in qually + 2 in race, you're just too stupid and childish. I already can't stand such a people on online game racing, so i could not even imagine if i race with such a people in real life !
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: uberslug on April 09, 2018, 01:14:51 PM
The wheel in front has the right of way, understood. Marquez was riding as if he was possessed, understood. What I don't understand is why ALL of the blame is being assigned to Marquez when Rossi knew EXACTLY what he, himself, was doing and was probably 99.9 percent sure of what Marquez would do [which, if the roles had been reversed, he would have done, and has done, himself]. The collision was not nearly as hard as when The Maniac took himself and Dovi out in the same corner under much better conditions [a case could be made had the grass not been wet Rossi would merely have been forced off the track]. RossiNazis will ALWAYS believe Marquez was 100^10 percent in the wrong. Those of us who don't have any blinders on or emotional skin in the game see two riders at fault, albeit one who shoulders more blame than the other.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: poumpouny on April 09, 2018, 01:22:09 PM
i'm not talking about person, but the way they race, so in my oppinion Zarco also worth a penalty ! anyway i love the fact suziki was the only factor bike to fight for the podium  ;D . The only thing i can't stand with last gp is what dorna done to miller, and how they invented new rules instantly, very sad miller didn't even get a podium !
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: guigui404 on April 09, 2018, 01:46:43 PM
But , something strange here , in 2015 , i've never seen anyone saying it was really dangerous to make someone crash on purpose  ::) , just sayin'

So as I said before , we all debating about the wrong overtake , the dangerous one was on espargaro , Marquez need a penalty for this
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Warlock on April 09, 2018, 01:54:26 PM
I ask myself why does a flack flag even exists if they dont use it at all. What does a rider have to do to be penalized with a black flag?...ride with an AK74 under his arm?

Marc is an idiot who thinks he is allowed to do what ever he wants because he is fast.
Rossi another idiot who should have been penalized with a black flag in many occasions in other races .
Zarco should have been penalized for his attempt over Pedrosa.

We all know how Marc rides, how Rossi rides and how Zarco rides, there is no point in defending any of them.
Marc and Zarco were perfectly aware of how their overtaking attempts were going to finish, they knew they were too harsh in such track conditions. They have enough experience to know this.

This is what happens when race director doesn't make enough use of a black flag, riders think they are allowed to do whatever they want.


Congrats to Cal , he was a happy bunny  ;D
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: PiBoSo on April 09, 2018, 02:05:02 PM

Marquez should have been black-flagged after the crash with Rossi. He was a danger for the other riders.

Also, he should be banned from racing in the next event.
Lorenzo was disqualified for a race in 2005 for a similar clash:
"Spanish rider Jorge Lorenzo will sit out the next week´s Marlboro Malaysian Motorcycle Grand Prix in Sepang, after Race Direction decided he rode in an irresponsible manner during Sunday´s Japanese GP, causing danger to other riders."
Fits perfectly with Marquez behaviour during the race.

This would have the beneficial side-effect of making the championship a bit more interesting  :P
The 2018 Honda looks way superior to the other bikes and Marquez will easily win by a landslide.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: uberslug on April 09, 2018, 02:06:43 PM
Rational men and women will NEVER fully understand what it is that Marquez, Rossi, and Zarco do, it is beyond our comprehension [if anyone here who 'races' IRL thinks otherwise, you are fooling yourself]. Their decision making processes are, by modern societal norms, WAY out of bounds. They are, by definition, aberrant genetic mutations and should be viewed as such.

Yes, Black Flags should be used, extensively. It is unfortunate, however, that the abhorrent events of yesterday's race will draw in far more spectators than the competition that was going on for the podium positions. At this point in time it is all about the money...
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on April 09, 2018, 02:33:14 PM
Quite a race !

Overall, I find the 30sec to MM OK, he messed up way too much while trying to get back upfront.
I have zero doubts on the fact it was not intentional, but still ... twice the same mistake, you deserve a penalty.
I'd have given a penalty to Zarco too.

I'm OK also with the ride-through for MM mess at start: miscommunication or not, it's up to him to know what to do when something like this happens.

Rossi: he was totally on the upper ground, until he (and Uccio  ::) ) started pumping air to his mouth.
He should probably stop giving interviews at all: he's ruining an incredible career, little by little.

Anyway, it sounds like last year season: Marquez way ahead of the bunch but making mistakes here and there so that battle is not over after 6 races. Good.
My money still on him (just like last year).

P.S.
Black flags happen, last one I remember was for ... MM !!
The year of his 1st title, in Australia for not stopping to swap bike as mandated (he stopped 1 lap too late).
And he was racing for the title (that he finally won).
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: poumpouny on April 09, 2018, 02:45:42 PM
I don't understand how marquez can be that fast ! even before the ride through he took 1 lap an 3 corner to pass miller who had 2 or 3 seconde ahead, even if i'm not a fan of marquez, i have to admin that nobody is able to challenge him right now, as Pib said, at least things like that make the championship more entertaining to watch  ;D
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Hawk on April 09, 2018, 03:03:28 PM
All I can say is that there is no wonder we see idiot overtaking practices in online events when so called current real life "MotoGP World Champions" like Marc don't even know how to race properly and respectfully! What a role model he is.... NOT! :P

Bring back the old 2 stroke classic GP500 bikes, they will sort the men out from the boys for sure! Then we'll see who has the real riding skills! Hehe! ;D ;D :P
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: uberslug on April 09, 2018, 03:22:41 PM
All I can say is that there is no wonder we see idiot overtaking practices in online events when so called current real life "MotoGP World Champions" like Marc don't even know how to race properly and respectfully! What a role model he is.... NOT! :P

Bring back the old 2 stroke classic GP500 bikes, they will sort the men out from the boys for sure! Then we'll see who has the real riding skills! Hehe! ;D ;D :P

Marquez is just perfecting what Rossi started...
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: matty0l215 on April 09, 2018, 03:31:23 PM
We say this as if it is the first time this is happening.

Okay the dominance of a single rider is newish to this era but each generation of new riders is faster than the last and that is just how the sport develops. What shouldnt be happening is letting riders get away with reckless and unessecerry actions.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: davidboda46 on April 09, 2018, 03:56:11 PM
I can see that my round-up of the Argentina GP will have a lot of difference in opinions. Will take me a day or two to finish it though, it's starting to resemble a fuckin' novel. A lot to cover... the boys sure keeps me busy on this one...

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on April 09, 2018, 05:23:31 PM
We say this as if it is the first time this is happening.

Okay the dominance of a single rider is newish to this era but each generation of new riders is faster than the last and that is just how the sport develops. What shouldnt be happening is letting riders get away with reckless and unessecerry actions.
Younger Rossi did many reckless things too. On top, he sometimes completed them with questionable comments (like the famous "Hey, it's racing"). People just tend to forget over time.

Also, it's funny to notice how fans of the 500cc era are throwing stones at MM: the various Gardner, Doohan, Schwantz etc were not exactly safety-oriented riders (and the number of fractures on the bodies is just a proof).

I don't blame Rossi for being reckless at the time, many true champions have followed the same pattern (a bit over the line when young, more cautious later on). In MotoGP just like in F1. Point is, now it's on others to be reckless. If Rossi is scared to race with Marc, to the point of fearing for himself, then it's time for him to retire. And the worst is, I don't even think he really thinks that. He just cannot miss a chance to be the victim of something ... I start to think there's a bit of Lorenzo in him :)
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: guigui404 on April 09, 2018, 05:44:00 PM
"I start to think there's a bit of Lorenzo in him" Aha , I hope i missunderstood this one :s
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on April 09, 2018, 06:24:04 PM
"I start to think there's a bit of Lorenzo in him" Aha , I hope i missunderstood this one :s

The double interpretation was totally *not* accidental :)
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on April 09, 2018, 06:39:50 PM
Just read a comment from Agostini on the facts: maybe right to penalize MM, but talking about a disqualification makes no sense.
And he's a guy that probably thinks about the 500-era riders as kids with to much electronic aids and safety rules :)

Waiting for Stoner's comment on the facts. Not sure it will improve his relationship with VR though :)
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Stout Johnson on April 09, 2018, 09:52:04 PM
We say this as if it is the first time this is happening.

Okay the dominance of a single rider is newish to this era but each generation of new riders is faster than the last and that is just how the sport develops. What shouldnt be happening is letting riders get away with reckless and unessecerry actions.
Totally agree. Marquez is riding irl like he was riding in a video game. As if crashing could not end fatal. Race commission needs to step in with harsh sanctions to enforce a certain behaviour / penalize unacceptable behaviour. This is not about Rossi, this is about safety and fair-play. Aleix Espargaro's race was also totally destroyed by MM. He does not seem to care.

And let's not forget he almost killed Wilairot in Moto2.  >:(

https://www.youtube.com/v/UVbK3cqTr7c
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on April 09, 2018, 10:54:30 PM
But how does it come nobody complains about Zarco ?!
He did essetially the same thing and it's not exactly the 1st time ... still, nobody cares. Weird ...
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: matty0l215 on April 09, 2018, 11:06:25 PM
He should be. That move was also very reckless and needed to be penalied but to do it retrospectivly wouldn't really achive much. I wouldn't have hurt as much as a ridethrough during the race would have. Seen as he was fighting for the lead at that point and seeing it fly away from him like that would stick in his mind.

He does not seem to care

This is what sticks in my mind about it all. Yes it is racing and you are all out there to win but if you are willing to put others in danger for that? Maybe its best not to race against somone like that.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Warlock on April 10, 2018, 12:42:24 AM
But how does it come nobody complains about Zarco ?!
He did essetially the same thing and it's not exactly the 1st time ... still, nobody cares. Weird ...

I did  :P
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Stout Johnson on April 10, 2018, 05:14:21 AM
But how does it come nobody complains about Zarco ?!
He did essetially the same thing and it's not exactly the 1st time ... still, nobody cares. Weird ...
If people are even argueing that MM behaviour is borderline ok, it does not make sense to talk about Zarco. That's why. Zarco's behaviour also was a very bad move and he has a history of it. Race commission needs to keep him in check as well. But it was one reckless move by Zarco the whole weekend. For the whole weekend Marquez had many reckless moves. I remember seeing him reckless in practice sessions even this weekend. To be quite honest, if Dovizioso was not so well prepared mentally, we would have seen the great last corner overtakes from Marquez not being countered my Dovi, but we would have seen Marquez run into Dovi in the last corner of Qatar 2018 and Austria 2017, maybe even crashing Dovi. Dovi had attitude, skills and plan to counter it. But he could anticipate it since it was the last corner in the last lap. Espargaro and Rossi did not have much of a chance.

And I do not agree with all things Mr Rossi says. But he is right with one thing. Reckless behaviour like we have seen could very well raise the bar of how aggressive overtaking will take place in general. Not every rider has the genetically aggressive style like Marquez. But every rider wants to win and some might adapt. I am even worried at the moment that Rossi may make a stupid move again á la Sepang 2015 in the upcoming races. He seems to think he is the council of elders and has to keep MM in check himself.

I want race commission to take care of this so we won't see any stupid moves, neither initiated by guys like Marquez, Zarco or Iannone nor any even more stupid retaliation moves from Rossi.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on April 10, 2018, 06:59:24 AM
I haven't seen a lot of people saying MM was borderline OK. Almost everybody agrees the sanction(s) were fair.
Then you have some saying black flags + race ban are needed. This is where I disagree. Strongly.

The line between a gutsy overtake and a too dangerous one is very thin: a bit less of contact, MM not going so wide (pushing VR out) and it would have been an epic move, one that VR could boast about in the aftermath if done by himself. MM took a risk, overdid it, things went wrong, got a penalty. All fine and sorry for VR, shit happens.

I am even worried at the moment that Rossi may make a stupid move again á la Sepang 2015 in the upcoming races. He seems to think he is the council of elders and has to keep MM in check himself.
I don't think he will but I agree on the council thing: as said before by somebody, he seems to think he's bigger than the sport he's in.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: poumpouny on April 10, 2018, 08:08:16 AM
we are talking about race safety here guy, not rossi, MM or whoever else. Don't confound personnal rider preference and race safety
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on April 10, 2018, 08:19:40 AM
we are talking about race safety here guy, not rossi, MM or whoever else. Don't confound personnal rider preference and race safety
But race security seems to have different interpretations depending on who's involved in the crash.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Stout Johnson on April 10, 2018, 08:28:46 AM
I haven't seen a lot of people saying MM was borderline OK. Almost everybody agrees the sanction(s) were fair.
Then you have some saying black flags + race ban are needed. This is where I disagree. Strongly.
That is what I mean with borderline ok. Sorry I was not really clear about that. Rossi should have seen the black Flag in Sepang Clash, Marquez should have seen black flag after he made the exact same stupid move for the 3rd time in the same fooking race!!! One time with Espargaro can happen, but one should be more cautious after that. He was not at all, seemed even more aggressive. Then he had another incident with Rabat I think (?), where he was ordered to drop one place, then several other overtakes which were questionable (but maybe ok), then the incident with Rossi where he was totally off the charts. That's just too much. He did not show in any way that he did not mean to do that. He raced like he could ride through other riders (is he playing too much Milestone games in his free time?) or as if he made a habit of bouncing off other riders, so he can take the corner while other's not. It happened many times, many riders were endangered by him, in two incidents the riders even had to take a DNF (Espargaro, Rossi - well Rossi had 0 points).

Imho, it should be a black flag. It can be argued differently, I see that and I respect you opinion. But please respect other's opinion on this matter.

Maybe the rule book should change. One incident during a race which is deemed dangerous/irresponsible should automatically be flagged with a sort of a yellow card. Any further incident which is deemed dangerous/irresponsible should automatically be a black flag? I am not really in favor of such hard rules. I prefer to leave the decision to the stewards and let them assess it according to the whole circumstances. But if we have flexible rules, we need stewards which really have the balls to take action if someone disregards fairness and safety blatantly. And MM did that in Argentina. The stewards lately try not to take too hard sanctions in order to let the riders battle it out on track. The thinking in general is ok, but rules of safety and fairplay ethics stand higher imho. Otherwise the behaviour on track will change by all riders.

The line between a gutsy overtake and a too dangerous one is very thin: a bit less of contact, MM not going so wide (pushing VR out) and it would have been an epic move, one that VR could boast about in the aftermath if done by himself. MM took a risk, overdid it, things went wrong, got a penalty. All fine and sorry for VR, shit happens.
That's where I strongly disagree. That is the exact thinking by MM - which results in such behaviour. If MM had had only one such incident, I would agree with you. It can happen. But he made a habit of this dangerous move during the whole weekend. Corner 13 in Argentina allows to brake late if the rider lifts the bike up a bit, then run from the inside towards the outside, run the other rider off a bit, then accelerate hard from the inside. To a certain degree this can be seen a race overtake. But MM made a habit of braking so late that contact was unavoidable. He anticipated the contact and knew he would make contact. It was part of his plan. That is where it is not a fair race overtake. In Rossi's case he was braking so late that in fact he would have had trouble to make the corner even if he would have been on his own. This driving is simply unacceptable. I am sorry, imho there is no other opinion to this. Otherwise we would allow carnage on track.

Racing is not about epic moves to boast about. Racing is about seeing who is fastest plus respecting each other's equal chances and rules of safety.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on April 10, 2018, 08:45:56 AM
He anticipated the contact and knew he would make contact. It was part of his plan.

I do respect your opinion but I don't think the above is even possible. For the very simple reason that, especially given the track conditions, there was a very very high chance for him to crash too (or even for him to crash and Rossi be able to race on). He was trying (too much) to win, not to crash whoever else.

If we are sure he intentionally went for contact/crashed the other rider, black flag or 1 race suspension is not enough. But we aren't.

Racing is not about epic moves to boast about. Racing is about seeing who is fastest plus respecting each other's equal chances and rules of safety.
Oh come on ... racing history is 95% made of epic moves and battles. And sometimes they just end with one (or two) in the gravel.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: guigui404 on April 10, 2018, 09:10:01 AM
But how does it come nobody complains about Zarco ?!
He did essetially the same thing and it's not exactly the 1st time ... still, nobody cares. Weird ...

Don't think it's the same cause , we see that pedrosa highside after he accelerate on a puddle
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Stout Johnson on April 10, 2018, 09:28:49 AM
He was trying (too much) to win, not to crash whoever else.
I agree with that. But I did not say anything else. He intended to bounce off the other riders, hoping they can ride on too of course. Anything else would be sociopathical, which he is not. But his plan was to bounce off of other riders if they do not concede and run wide on their own.


If we are sure he intentionally went for contact/crashed the other rider, black flag or 1 race suspension is not enough. But we aren't.
I agree, we cannot be sure about this. But this is an immanent problem with all motives. I work in the law segment and there is a similar problem with sanctions in penal law where the motive of a person is part of what is viewed condemnable behaviour. If we cannot look inside the brain, then we have to resort to the fact that actions are the outer representation of one's motives. So e.g. if a court assumes a murder is premeditated, then it is due to some verifiable actions which are in accordance with planned behaviour (e.g. buying a murder weapon before the murder). I would argue that the fact that MM has made the exact same move the whole weekend should have had a learning effect on such a skilled rider over the course of the weekend. To the effect that such behaviour should have been avoidable. And if it is not avoided it can be considered intentional or at least highly negligent which is considered almost as condemnable and should request similar sanctions.

My 2 cents on this. I accept your view.


Racing is not about epic moves to boast about. Racing is about seeing who is fastest plus respecting each other's equal chances and rules of safety.

Oh come on ... racing history is 95% made of epic moves and battles. And sometimes they just end with one (or two) in the gravel.
Of course what is remembered are moments that stand out. But epic moves should not be the goal of one's actions. Then the risk/reward ratio is biased if the move itself is part of the reward. Great moves come by themselves if racing happens, they cannot/should not be aimed at.

I stand by my opinion that respecting each other's equal chances and rules of safety are the basis for any sports.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Hawk on April 10, 2018, 10:38:00 AM
We say this as if it is the first time this is happening.

Okay the dominance of a single rider is newish to this era but each generation of new riders is faster than the last and that is just how the sport develops. What shouldnt be happening is letting riders get away with reckless and unessecerry actions.
Younger Rossi did many reckless things too. On top, he sometimes completed them with questionable comments (like the famous "Hey, it's racing"). People just tend to forget over time.

Also, it's funny to notice how fans of the 500cc era are throwing stones at MM: the various Gardner, Doohan, Schwantz etc were not exactly safety-oriented riders (and the number of fractures on the bodies is just a proof).

I don't blame Rossi for being reckless at the time, many true champions have followed the same pattern (a bit over the line when young, more cautious later on). In MotoGP just like in F1. Point is, now it's on others to be reckless. If Rossi is scared to race with Marc, to the point of fearing for himself, then it's time for him to retire. And the worst is, I don't even think he really thinks that. He just cannot miss a chance to be the victim of something ... I start to think there's a bit of Lorenzo in him :)

You show me anytime where those GP500 riders blatantly caused(not accidental) one of their fellow competitors to crash or purposely rammed other riders to the extent you tend to see nowadays, Max? I bet you can't! Riders definitely had more respect for each other in those days, if not personally then certainly their abilities as a fellow competitor. :P

It's a different era nowadays Max.... The different tyres technologies, the riders(a lot of them are simple nutcases) and especially the bikes with them being computer controlled encourage riders to be more daring and aggressive because the computer control let them get away with it the majority of the time.

As far as you thinking broken bones are proof of aggressive riding in that era, your SO wrong..... That just came with the territory of riding a bike that was totally under the riders control and skill levels as well as riding bikes that were so much more difficult to ride than todays modern MotoGP bikes. Plus high sides were a common crash characteristic of an accident in those days which tended to end with broken bones(Mostly wrists and collar bones).  :)

Admit it Max.... It's SO obvious that MM is a frigging nutcase of the first order and a danger to everyone else around him! It's SO obvious to everyone except MM fans. Lol!  ;D

And btw... I'm not a MM hater.... It's just that I can see what sort of person he is; A frigging nutter!
MM is the sort of character who would be willing to throw his life, and worse, any of his competitors lives away if he thought he could win by doing so, and anyone who thinks that's admirable is also a frigging sociopathical nutcase too! ....  :P
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: uberslug on April 10, 2018, 11:01:42 AM
You show me anytime where those GP500 riders blatantly caused(not accidental) one of their fellow competitors to crash or purposely rammed other riders to the extent you tend to see nowadays, Max? I bet you can't! Riders definitely had more respect for each other in those days, if not personally then certainly their abilities as a fellow competitor. :P

Really? As a fan of 500s you should go back and watch the slug fests between Roberts and Spencer. Talk about no holds barred, bare knuckles, end up in a heap fairing banging battles. Spencer was the Marquez of his era while Roberts was his arch nemesis. Roberts still pisses and moans about Spencer and it has been over thirty years since they raced each other. Marquez shows Rossi far more respect than Spencer did Roberts, Rainey did Lawson, Kocinski did Doohan, or Rossi did anyone at any point in his career.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Stout Johnson on April 10, 2018, 11:32:31 AM
Hope we don't get side-tracked in the discussion here. From my point of view it could very well be the case, that we had similar aggressive behaviour in the old times. I don't know those old times.

For me it is important to look at the current era, because the past is the past. I just see that the current way of fighting for the win, which has been established by Marquez, and also seems to be used by Zarco and Iannone (not lately though) to some degree would be really detrimental to the sport. As much drama as it had, I did not really enjoy the last race. It left an awful taste in my mouth because of the antics of Marquez. Last time I felt similarly, was after the Sepang Clash.

And all this despite the fact that the four guys battling for the win (Crutchlow, Zarco, Rins, Miller) were having an awesome and totally fair battle for the win (Zarco's maneouver towards Pedrosa excluded). That was fun to watch and inspring. And all that seemed to be less important because of what happend with a guy trying to battle for 5th place. If MM would have just ridden with normal aggressiveness, he still would have been by far the fastest guy. He would have been able to finish 5th, without risking his health and the health of others, without risking his race and that of Espargaro and Rossi, gain important points for the championship and would not have made a fool of himself.

It is a bright spot to see guys like Rins have so much success. He may look like a donkey, but I truly have become a fan of him. He is the prototype of a perfect racer. Similar to Dovizioso and Pedrosa. Be fast, but always race fair and respect your fellow competitors. I just hope that the bad behaviour does not become accepted behaviour. Imo the race commission has to ensure that by penalizing dangerous behaviour more strictly.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Blackheart on April 10, 2018, 11:32:49 AM
Really? As a fan of 500s you should go back and watch the slug fests between Roberts and Spencer. Talk about no holds barred, bare knuckles, end up in a heap fairing banging battles. Spencer was the Marquez of his era while Roberts was his arch nemesis. Roberts still pisses and moans about Spencer and it has been over thirty years since they raced each other. Marquez shows Rossi far more respect than Spencer did Roberts, Rainey did Lawson, Kocinski did Doohan, or Rossi did anyone at any point in his career.

Any your post here is Vs Rossi... Open an other thread about Rossi, I suggest you "I hate Rossi". lol
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: uberslug on April 10, 2018, 01:02:09 PM
Really? As a fan of 500s you should go back and watch the slug fests between Roberts and Spencer. Talk about no holds barred, bare knuckles, end up in a heap fairing banging battles. Spencer was the Marquez of his era while Roberts was his arch nemesis. Roberts still pisses and moans about Spencer and it has been over thirty years since they raced each other. Marquez shows Rossi far more respect than Spencer did Roberts, Rainey did Lawson, Kocinski did Doohan, or Rossi did anyone at any point in his career.

Any your post here is Vs Rossi... Open an other thread about Rossi, I suggest you "I hate Rossi". lol

I don't hate Rossi, I just think the pot shouldn't be calling the kettle black.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: davidboda46 on April 10, 2018, 01:03:52 PM
The thing is that Marc did so many things wrong that it's ridiculous. The teams should force their riders to read the rule book. Bump starting his bike on the grid after it stalled and then riding in the wrong direction is a big no no. I don't know if he knew that he should start from pit lane and just hoped he would get away with not doing so because of the general chaos, or if he didn't know. Either way... and then to follow it up with two obviously stupid overtakes (and those are the ones we saw, who knows how many more their were off camera). Add that he almost wiped Vinales out in practice and his history of incidents... well it adds up. The thing is not only that he will end up hurting another rider seriously, he is also unnecessarily risking his own life. After the accident that almost ended his career (double vision after a crash at Sepang practice in 2011), you would think that he would be a bit more careful, but I get the feeling that he thinks he is immortal.

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: guigui404 on April 10, 2018, 01:11:47 PM
Don't understand at all , about the grid , so what ? what should had he do ? stay on the grid and being hit ?  :o
Because I'm really sorry , but I see nobody tell him to quit the grid ?

He has been penalized end of the story
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: poumpouny on April 10, 2018, 01:26:14 PM
If MM was that fast, that would be him in pole, he's just running qually pace on race and think other rider are something like gpbikes ghost  ;D
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on April 10, 2018, 01:29:50 PM
But how does it come nobody complains about Zarco ?!
He did essetially the same thing and it's not exactly the 1st time ... still, nobody cares. Weird ...

Don't think it's the same cause , we see that pedrosa highside after he accelerate on a puddle

A puddle Pedrosa had to ride into because Zarco went to his inside "a bit too optimistically" maybe.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: uberslug on April 10, 2018, 01:49:33 PM
But how does it come nobody complains about Zarco ?!
He did essetially the same thing and it's not exactly the 1st time ... still, nobody cares. Weird ...

Don't think it's the same cause , we see that pedrosa highside after he accelerate on a puddle

A puddle Pedrosa had to ride into because Zarco went to his inside "a bit too optimistically" maybe.

It could be said Marquez is a bit too optimistic about his abilities and his hyper enthusiasm leads to massive brain farts which put others at risk. The same cannot be said of Zarco who intentionally, and with malice, ran competitors off the track during his Moto2 days.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: davidboda46 on April 10, 2018, 02:46:27 PM
Don't understand at all , about the grid , so what ? what should had he do ? stay on the grid and being hit ?  :o
Because I'm really sorry , but I see nobody tell him to quit the grid ?

He has been penalized end of the story

The rules say that he should raise his hand to indicate he has a problem and then he is supposed to be helped of the grid by marshals so the rest can start the race. That is what should have happened.

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on April 10, 2018, 03:01:51 PM
The rules say that he should raise his hand to indicate he has a problem and then he is supposed to be helped of the grid by marshals so the rest can start the race. That is what should have happened.
Yeah, he messed that up (so the rightful ride-through). And the grid marshals too.

Had MM followed the procedure, he would have probably been better off.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: guigui404 on April 10, 2018, 03:59:33 PM
But how does it come nobody complains about Zarco ?!
He did essetially the same thing and it's not exactly the 1st time ... still, nobody cares. Weird ...

Don't think it's the same cause , we see that pedrosa highside after he accelerate on a puddle

A puddle Pedrosa had to ride into because Zarco went to his inside "a bit too optimistically" maybe.


I'm ok with that , so then Johann accelerate for Dani to make him highside ?
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: guigui404 on April 10, 2018, 04:01:08 PM
He raise his arm , as you said from the procedure ;) , but I don't see any marshal doing something than push him to start the engine again.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: SwarleyRuiz on April 10, 2018, 04:53:20 PM
Pedrosa set for surgery

Dani Pedrosa reportedly diagnosed with a fracture of his right radius, after Argentina MotoGP accident.

https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/893416/1/pedrosa-set-surgery
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: speedfr on April 10, 2018, 04:54:45 PM
This GP was great.

At every level and category.

And if i was Miller, i'll be really pissed off. Race direction made a big mistake not to mention 5 mn delay before everybody back in the pit.
And about MM, i think he is still childish even if he is a virtuose rider.
And sure enough, Rossi clan make big noise about it, that regular "war", what else could we be waiting for...
I love Rossi but i really didn't like his team and slaves reaction...
These things happens already in the past and so if we follow the History, MM should starts from the last position in Austin... Interesting challenge !!!
(remenber Valencia 2015)


I'm super happy for Crutchlow and Zarco, Pasini and Vierge.

Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: guigui404 on April 10, 2018, 05:22:23 PM
No he shouldn't , because when Rossi started last , he had get the points for sepang , even after had push Marquez down on purpose with his leg , here Marquez get 30seconds and no point

Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Blackheart on April 10, 2018, 05:25:56 PM
No he shouldn't , because when Rossi started last , he had get the points for sepang , even after had push Marquez down on purpose with his leg , here Marquez get 30seconds and no point

lol  the Rossi's haters are ridiculous...  ;D
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Hawk on April 10, 2018, 05:27:08 PM
You show me anytime where those GP500 riders blatantly caused(not accidental) one of their fellow competitors to crash or purposely rammed other riders to the extent you tend to see nowadays, Max? I bet you can't! Riders definitely had more respect for each other in those days, if not personally then certainly their abilities as a fellow competitor. :P

Really? As a fan of 500s you should go back and watch the slug fests between Roberts and Spencer. Talk about no holds barred, bare knuckles, end up in a heap fairing banging battles. Spencer was the Marquez of his era while Roberts was his arch nemesis. Roberts still pisses and moans about Spencer and it has been over thirty years since they raced each other. Marquez shows Rossi far more respect than Spencer did Roberts, Rainey did Lawson, Kocinski did Doohan, or Rossi did anyone at any point in his career.

Are you sure you used to watch the GP500 World Championships back in the 70'/80's..... What GP's are you referring too where you saw Roberts and Spencer banging fairings like they do these days? In fact back in the 70's/80's I've never seen the sort of bashing around they get up to these days.  :P
I used to follow and watch them all.... name one as an example and I'll go back and take a look and see if I'm mistaken... but I've a good feeling you can't! :P ;D

As for comparing Freddie Spencer to MM..... That is such an insult to the GP500 era, how could you even think that!! Spencer was clearly head and shoulders more talented than MM could ever hope to to be! Lol!  ;D ;D

Plus the riders your matching up as GP arch-rivals in their era's back then just shows that your statement is clearly questionable to say the least.   :P ;D
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: speedfr on April 10, 2018, 06:58:10 PM
I remenber a certain Loris C. that shoot out (no other words) a Japanese pilot in order to obtain the World title at the end of the race.
He never had any trouble...

And about MM and Austin, yes, he deserves his extra penalty, i know he didn't get the point because of his 30 sec penalty but i should say it's not for Rossi, it's for the entire GP. 3 mistakes.
Cuz, anybody can tell me anything but MM knew that he should have started from the pits, that's the rules forever, even the referre is taking is arm but MM resisted and tried. Gambling is loosing sometimes too.
He should have started from the pits and he won't have so much to take back after.
But is this GP, as a pilot, he did 3 mistakes.
He should have a general penalty for that.
Maybe they gonna take points away from his MotoGP licence...
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: uberslug on April 10, 2018, 10:40:02 PM
After thinking about the MotoGP Shite Show on Sunday, I believe the Race Commissaires are to blame for the collisions Marquez had with other riders [I am not defending Marquez's actions, just offering a different point of view].

Marquez deserved some sort of penalty for stalling at the start line. It was abundantly clear from FP2 that he was faster than everyone else in mediocre conditions [yeah, he made some mistakes in Qualifying but everyone was betting on him for the race win].

Had the commissaires merely implemented a 30 second penalty instead of a ride through there would have been no opportunity for him to run into other riders since he was well clear at the end of lap two and disappearing at an impressive rate. By the time he would have caught the back of the pack the blue flags would have been out and the riders would have been allowing him ample room to pass without him having to shove them out of the way. Marquez probably would have won by 40 seconds [sort of like when VR messed up in Australia in the early 2000s, was assessed a 10 second penalty, ignored it, and won by 12 seconds in order to insure his victory]. Perhaps a 60 second penalty would have been more appropriate and have cost him points.

In reality, the RCs created the dangerous situation and should be punished appropriately. They should have known better than to throw a 55 gallon drum of nitro Marquez onto an open pit fire.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: WALKEN on April 11, 2018, 02:21:11 AM
The puzzling part for me is the timing of these moves or justification.

I think when Rossi says Marquez is destroying the sport I think I understand his point? Hard moves are nothing new in MotoGP. But it is becoming more common due to Marquez and his style and comments on having to crash to find the limit.

Timing of a hard move is sometimes justified with in reason due to the results being a title fight for instance, Marquez fighting hard with Rossi at Sepang was for what reason? Same as the hard pass at Argentina, why? Racing like this in the heat of a last race title fight between two rivals may come down to this but its only the second race of the season.

Zarco on Dani, he never made contact but the move was hard and maybe uncalled for, but Zarco is hungry as a rookie for a win so its not a surprise.

Marc is just acting like a dick and very disrespectful to everyone in MotoGP including the fans.

     
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on April 11, 2018, 04:26:04 PM
Are you sure you used to watch the GP500 World Championships back in the 70'/80's..... What GP's are you referring too where you saw Roberts and Spencer banging fairings like they do these days? In fact back in the 70's/80's I've never seen the sort of bashing around they get up to these days.  :P
I used to follow and watch them all.... name one as an example and I'll go back and take a look and see if I'm mistaken... but I've a good feeling you can't! :P ;D

http://www.cyclenews.com/2009/08/article/roberts-vs-spencer/ (http://www.cyclenews.com/2009/08/article/roberts-vs-spencer/)

Quote
August  7, 1983… Twenty six years ago this coming Friday, Freddie Spencer ran it up the inside of Kenny Roberts in the Swedish Grand Prix at Anderstorp on the final lap, sending both of them on to the dirt on the exit of the corner. The move was significant in that it gave Spencer the victory, by a scant .16 of a second, and it also gave him a five-point lead going into the final race of the 1983 World Championship. Roberts would win in the San Marino Grand Prix in Imola, Italy almost a month later, but Spencer’s second place would give him the title – by just two points.”He [Spencer] came up the beside me as we entered the corner,” Roberts said after the race. “It looked to me like he couldn’t slow down enough, so I changed my line to avoid hitting him and we both went off the track. I was on the outside and went about three feet off the track. He was inside me and only went about a foot off so he got out of the corner first and took the lead. He didn’t hit me, but if I hand’t taken avoiding action, he would have taken us both down.””Losing on the last lap is part of racing,” Spencer said.

Can't find a video, but from the descriptions (multiple available and all agreeing) of the events and the words of the riders, I guess we're all set.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Hawk on April 11, 2018, 07:28:10 PM
Are you sure you used to watch the GP500 World Championships back in the 70'/80's..... What GP's are you referring too where you saw Roberts and Spencer banging fairings like they do these days? In fact back in the 70's/80's I've never seen the sort of bashing around they get up to these days.  :P
I used to follow and watch them all.... name one as an example and I'll go back and take a look and see if I'm mistaken... but I've a good feeling you can't! :P ;D

http://www.cyclenews.com/2009/08/article/roberts-vs-spencer/ (http://www.cyclenews.com/2009/08/article/roberts-vs-spencer/)

Quote
August  7, 1983… Twenty six years ago this coming Friday, Freddie Spencer ran it up the inside of Kenny Roberts in the Swedish Grand Prix at Anderstorp on the final lap, sending both of them on to the dirt on the exit of the corner. The move was significant in that it gave Spencer the victory, by a scant .16 of a second, and it also gave him a five-point lead going into the final race of the 1983 World Championship. Roberts would win in the San Marino Grand Prix in Imola, Italy almost a month later, but Spencer’s second place would give him the title – by just two points.”He [Spencer] came up the beside me as we entered the corner,” Roberts said after the race. “It looked to me like he couldn’t slow down enough, so I changed my line to avoid hitting him and we both went off the track. I was on the outside and went about three feet off the track. He was inside me and only went about a foot off so he got out of the corner first and took the lead. He didn’t hit me, but if I hand’t taken avoiding action, he would have taken us both down.””Losing on the last lap is part of racing,” Spencer said.

Can't find a video, but from the descriptions (multiple available and all agreeing) of the events and the words of the riders, I guess we're all set.

Oh c'mon Max. Lol! ;D
I remember that indecent well and we're talking about something totally different in comparison here I sure you. Lol! ;D

If you read your quote above carefully, it is clear that no contact was ever made at all, and as Roberts said, Spencer came up beside him and he had to take avoiding action by altering his line; that's massively different to the likes of MM ramming other riders and causing other riders or indeed himself to crash don't you think? :P ;D

You'll have to do better than that example to show anything like the disgraceful antics that we see today from the likes of MM. But I already know that nothing of the likes of what we see today ever did happen back in the GP's of that era..... I tell you guys, riders had to respect the bikes as well as trust the other riders to ride reasonably sensibly back in those days.... they didn't have electronics to get them out of trouble and the bikes were unforgiving to say the least... It just wasn't worth risking your life over....
Modern MotoGP bikes(not to mention modern tracks) are just too safe and stable nowadays for the good of safety as a whole.... Riders just don't respect the dangers anymore, and they need to know that if they make a mistake then it could be their very last mistake they'll ever make and these days, with all the electronic gadgets to stabilise the bikes performance and handling, that is not so.  :P :)

No wonder most people who can remember how the Motorcycle Grand Prix's used to be in their "Blue Ribbon" glory days think the soul has been ripped out of the sport today.... Even the word "MotoGP" has become synonymous with the disgraceful changes that have ruined motorcycle sport as a whole in the modern era I'm sad to say.  :(
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on April 11, 2018, 07:34:32 PM
Yeah Hawk, whatever. Dream on.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Hawk on April 11, 2018, 07:41:05 PM
Yeah Hawk, whatever. Dream on.

Oh, to be too young and oblivious to how things this used to be, eh Max.  ;) ;D
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on April 11, 2018, 07:46:57 PM
Yeah Hawk, whatever. Dream on.

Oh, to be too young and oblivious to how things this used to be, eh Max.  ;) ;D

Or to be too old and be oblivious to the way things really were.
One of your hero riders was and still is saying the other went over the line and you say "Nah, I remember it right, it was fair".

Sometimes I wonder why you still watch motogp. Don't like it, don't watch it.

So, again, whatever.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Hawk on April 11, 2018, 09:59:49 PM
Yeah Hawk, whatever. Dream on.

Oh, to be too young and oblivious to how things this used to be, eh Max.  ;) ;D

Or to be too old and be oblivious to the way things really were.
One of your hero riders was and still is saying the other went over the line and you say "Nah, I remember it right, it was fair".

Sometimes I wonder why you still watch motogp. Don't like it, don't watch it.

So, again, whatever.

Max. I didn't at all say, "Nah, I remember it right, it was fair"; I wish you wouldn't quote statements I didn't make..... You'd make a very good newspaper-journalist mate. Lol!  ;D

What I do say, personally speaking, is that I do agree with Roberts that it wasn't sportsman-like behaviour what Spencer did to him that day to win the 500cc Championship... I think it was a total act of selfish behaviour and not in the spirit of the sport for that era at all, unlike it seems for todays riders in the modern era; they seem to think behaviour like that is to be expected and the normal thing to do to win races.... There is just no honour in the sport these days....

Yes Roberts did say Spencer went way too far, but you have to understand that Roberts was talking from a point of view about riding etiquette of those old classic times(when that sort of behaviour very rarely happened in GP's) and you cannot relate his statement then to what is happening today in the modern era, and certainly not to the sort of antics MM is being accused of.
Remember, no contact was actually made between the two riders at the time..... I'm surprised you cannot see the difference between that incident and the sort of crazy incidents we see these days mate? Absolutely no comparison at all. :o

Just that I thought you were all for the safety of riders, Max? Maybe you should rethink your stance and advocation for computer controlled bikes so modern riders(exception for Rossi. Lol!) can learn again that you can't take such risks on a race-bike without severe consequences? :P ;D

Better still, let's go back to the 2 stroke GP500cc bikes without any electronic wizardry.... Oh yeah! ;D ;D

Oh! Btw.... That last paragraph is a dream.... You can quote me on that. :P ;)
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on April 12, 2018, 06:38:11 AM
What I do say, personally speaking, is that I do agree with Roberts that it wasn't sportsman-like behaviour what Spencer did to him that day to win the 500cc Championship... I think it was a total act of selfish behaviour and not in the spirit of the sport for that era at all, unlike it seems for todays riders in the modern era; they seem to think behaviour like that is to be expected and the normal thing to do to win races.... There is just no honour in the sport these days....

Yes Roberts did say Spencer went way too far, but you have to understand that Roberts was talking from a point of view about riding etiquette of those old classic times(when that sort of behaviour very rarely happened in GP's) and you cannot relate his statement then to what is happening today in the modern era, and certainly not to the sort of antics MM is being accused of.
Remember, no contact was actually made between the two riders at the time..... I'm surprised you cannot see the difference between that incident and the sort of crazy incidents we see these days mate? Absolutely no comparison at all. :o
You're digging your own grave man.
You boldly asked for an example of excessive/unfair/dangerous riding in the 500cc era. You've been given one, in the words of journalists and riders themselves. End of the story.

Nobody is saying MM did well, was right or whatever along these lines.
You're inventing stuff up ("they seem to think behaviour like that is to be expected and the normal thing to do to win races").

Just that I thought you were all for the safety of riders, Max? Maybe you should rethink your stance and advocation for computer controlled bikes so modern riders(exception for Rossi. Lol!) can learn again that you can't take such risks on a race-bike without severe consequences? :P ;D
Rider safety is riding on a well designed track, with no inherently dangerous turns and with proper escape ways and track-side safety devices.
Just thought that you were all for the safety of the riders Hawk ... an no wait, you're a big TT fan ...
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Stout Johnson on April 12, 2018, 07:39:10 AM
Max. I didn't at all say, "Nah, I remember it right, it was fair"; I wish you wouldn't quote statements I didn't make..... You'd make a very good newspaper-journalist mate. Lol!  ;D
;D indeed, he has a tendency. I remember similar things from the discussion after Sepang Clash.

[...] they seem to think behaviour like that is to be expected and the normal thing to do to win races.... There is just no honour in the sport these days....
I think that for sure is a generalization. The majority of riders does have honor and respects the ethics of sports. Just look at all the statements after last sunday's race. The vast majority was very very critical of MM's actions. Or look at how the 4 guys in front bravely but respectfully fought for the win (Zarco didn't do any stupid moves after the Pedrosa incident).

I think the whole discussion concerning the old days does not lead anywhere. Whether or not there was unsportsmanlike behaviour back in the days, whether it was equal, worse or better... I think there will never be a consensus. This discussion would only be fruitful if there was a similar situation of excessive aggressiveness of 1 or 2 riders and if rule changes or actions by the race commission ended up making riders ride safely and respectful again. Then we could argue for certain actions on how to get rid of reckless and dangerous behaviour we have seen recently. Other than that I am afraid, this discussion will be a waste of time.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on April 12, 2018, 07:55:49 AM
Max. I didn't at all say, "Nah, I remember it right, it was fair"; I wish you wouldn't quote statements I didn't make..... You'd make a very good newspaper-journalist mate. Lol!  ;D
;D indeed, he has a tendency. I remember similar things from the discussion after Sepang Clash.

Really ? Here's what Hawk said:

I remember that indecent well and we're talking about something totally different in comparison here I sure you. Lol! ;D

If you read your quote above carefully, it is clear that no contact was ever made at all, and as Roberts said, Spencer came up beside him and he had to take avoiding action by altering his line; that's massively different to the likes of MM ramming other riders and causing other riders or indeed himself to crash don't you think? :P ;D
Just for my understanding: MM went too hard inside Rossi in a slow corner, forcing him down wide, on the grass and finally down.
Spencer went hard inside Roberts and both went out wide in the dirt.

I don't see the big difference between the two (except that MM has admitted the mistake).

Other than that I am afraid, this discussion will be a waste of time.
Can't agree more on that.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Hawk on April 12, 2018, 09:06:59 AM
Lol! ;D
Seems like yet again we'll just have to agree to disagree on our individual opinions on this Max...... We do have a long history of differences of opinion & debating the toss about issues that go nowhere simply because we see things from a totally different point of view.... I see nothing has changed. Lol! ;) 8)
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Napalm Nick on April 12, 2018, 10:10:25 AM
I still haven't seen this goddamn race yet. I look forward to reading this whole thread after tho. Must be a good race to kick-start such a long discussion  ;D
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Stout Johnson on April 12, 2018, 11:48:21 AM
I still haven't seen this goddamn race yet. I look forward to reading this whole thread after tho. Must be a good race to kick-start such a long discussion  ;D
Hope you haven't spoilered it too much for yourself by sniffing in here.  ;)
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Napalm Nick on April 12, 2018, 08:19:32 PM
Hehe no I am careful not to read too much. As far as I can tell 2 strokes are back in this race? Lol  :D
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: RaDiCaL on April 12, 2018, 08:58:16 PM
How about a black flag


seriously?! Do you mean the same black flag we have seen 2015 in Malaysia?!
The most who write coments like this should put off their yellow glasses...its Motogp...not Motorossi.

I dont want to defent Marquez` riding style in argentina...but he gets a penalty for that instead of zarco or petrux...so what?!
And btw...rossi did the same "overtakes" in the past and gets NOTHING for it....
Maybe they should ask Biaggi, Gibernaut or Stoner...

And now the drama queen cries and his fans believe this shit like they did 2015....

I hate this Rossi vs. Marquez so much.....i love great races but not the dramashow behind...no one should need this !

Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: matty0l215 on April 12, 2018, 09:07:07 PM
Rossi should have been penalised.

I am not a Rossi fenatic, not even really a fan (Cal or Dovi/Ducati all the way!) and I think he should have been penalised BUT not black flagged as this wasn't a one incident affair, Marc was reckless all race. But i agree, Zarco and Petruci also needed to be penalised.

Blame Race direction, they are the ones who were incosistant that day.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Blackheart on April 12, 2018, 09:16:27 PM
rossi did the same "overtakes" in the past and gets NOTHING for it....
Maybe they should ask Biaggi, Gibernaut or Stoner...
https://www.youtube.com/v/PEc87m-27cg
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Napalm Nick on April 12, 2018, 10:13:24 PM
Seen it now. Another feisty championship this year, good for fans blood and interest in bike racing. Piboso sales soaring...

Jack I feel sorry for - that start decision?

Crutchlow is winning championship - Boom! As an 'Icelandic' Brit this is fantastic. 8)

Ding ding, round 3...

Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: MultiCOOLFRESH on April 12, 2018, 10:18:10 PM
How about a black flag


seriously?! Do you mean the same black flag we have seen 2015 in Malaysia?!
The most who write coments like this should put off their yellow glasses...its Motogp...not Motorossi.

I dont want to defent Marquez` riding style in argentina...but he gets a penalty for that instead of zarco or petrux...so what?!
And btw...rossi did the same "overtakes" in the past and gets NOTHING for it....
Maybe they should ask Biaggi, Gibernaut or Stoner...

And now the drama queen cries and his fans believe this shit like they did 2015....

I hate this Rossi vs. Marquez so much.....i love great races but not the dramashow behind...no one should need this !

You won't spare a single thread with your BSing, don't you? Well, at least here are also many people that are able to think logically ;)

(Me and radical had some history with some arguments ;D )

MCF
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Stout Johnson on April 13, 2018, 06:20:41 AM
Hehe no I am careful not to read too much. As far as I can tell 2 strokes are back in this race? Lol  :D
LOL  ;D  one would get the impression...

Jack I feel sorry for - that start decision?

Crutchlow is winning championship - Boom! As an 'Icelandic' Brit this is fantastic. 8)
Yes. That Miller-topic also fell short, because of all the other drama. Race commission screwed up big-time and in all likelihood robbed him off a win. Those bold decisions need to be rewarded. But I think those officials didn't want to have too much scuffle there for the championship top-contenders and wanted to not have all start from the pit-lane. But it would have been the correct way according to the rules. Miller was robbed.
And Crutchlow is in good shape this year. Seems to be very wise. This may help. I see him in the top5 for the championship.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Hawk on April 13, 2018, 08:05:40 AM
Hehe no I am careful not to read too much. As far as I can tell 2 strokes are back in this race? Lol  :D

Haha! Got to keep the dream alive Nick! Hehe!  ;D
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: WALKEN on April 14, 2018, 01:53:12 AM
rossi did the same "overtakes" in the past and gets NOTHING for it....
Maybe they should ask Biaggi, Gibernaut or Stoner...
https://www.youtube.com/v/PEc87m-27cg

Interesting, we thought about the exact thing. Thank you for posting it as I was just to lazy  ;)
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: speedfr on May 04, 2018, 02:05:31 PM
Zarco signed at KTM for next years...

Hope it will be a good idea, at least its a great challenge, doesn't want to be the "follower" of Marquez even if Pedrosa is not signed yet at HRC but at least, he will have the Boss position as he wanted. We'll see...
Pol Espargaro stays at KTM and its a good thing, this Espargaro Brothers are damn fighters, good things.
Bradley should go to the Tech3 team, so staying with a KTM.
Who will be the fourth ? Hafish ? That could be great !

Have a good Jerez journey everybody !
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: poumpouny on May 04, 2018, 02:24:37 PM
I'm afraid of a Lorenzo bis wiht Zarco with KTM, anyway i think he will win at least 1 GP this season.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: speedfr on May 04, 2018, 02:31:38 PM
Well, we all have that in minds... But the KTM seems to be a "regular" frame and doesn't seems to need to be pushed over as a Ducati.
Ducati is very special architecture.
The KTM seems to be more as a Honda/Yam/Suz kind of bike.
Let's hope...  :)
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: matty0l215 on May 04, 2018, 05:07:16 PM
Shame to end his carrear so early ;) :P

Joking aside, I hope he can bring the KTM to a fighting pace.

The Ducati is a, You can ride it or you cant bike. Rossi and Lorenzo have proven this.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: davidboda46 on May 04, 2018, 07:26:05 PM
Zarco signed at KTM for next years...

Hope it will be a good idea, at least its a great challenge, doesn't want to be the "follower" of Marquez even if Pedrosa is not signed yet at HRC but at least, he will have the Boss position as he wanted. We'll see...
Pol Espargaro stays at KTM and its a good thing, this Espargaro Brothers are damn fighters, good things.
Bradley should go to the Tech3 team, so staying with a KTM.
Who will be the fourth ? Hafish ? That could be great !

Have a good Jerez journey everybody !

Bradley won't go to KTM Tech3. It is clear that Tech3 will be a "junior" feeder team, and Bradley isn't exactly a young rookie anymore. Oliveira and Hafish looks like the most likely line up at the moment. Unfortunately Brad doesn't have many options. Maybe a testing role like Mika Kallio, but I don't see the need for two test riders to be honest. Other than that, WSBK or BSB maybe... I like Bradley, he is a good and clever rider but he isn't one of the top riders that the teams want.

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: matty0l215 on May 04, 2018, 07:36:37 PM
He is where Cal was say 5-6 years ago. Quick, still young and willing to go on any bike but he is stuggeling to find his place. (compared to Cals end year at Tech 3, then Ducati then to LCR)

Maybe a Honda would suit him the same way It did for Cal??
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: KG_03 on May 04, 2018, 08:29:59 PM
Yup Herve already said that de does not see Bradley as a Tech3 rider, because the team is not for an experienced riders like BS. Time will show BSB or WSBK seem to be the only option for him...sadly :-(
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: speedfr on May 05, 2018, 12:01:23 PM
Oliveira is signed too.  ;D


Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: matty0l215 on May 06, 2018, 04:36:01 PM
Well...

That was odd to say the least... ???

Not a bad fight, mind you that could have gone better :P
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: speedfr on May 06, 2018, 04:50:31 PM
What a strike...  :o :o :o

Zarco and Ianonne are the lucky ones...  :P
Marquez is The Boss. it's him again for this year.
Crutchlow down, what a disaster, his old Demons coming back. What a shame.
Vinales got lucky too, but at least, stayed on his wheels...

So far :

Marquez : 70 pts
Zarco : 58 pts
Vinales : 50 pts.

Poor Dovi, to me it's nobody's fault but it kills his Championship place : 5 with 46 pts  :o
Lorenzo : 20th with 6 pts... Down to Hell  :-\
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: uberslug on May 06, 2018, 04:52:50 PM
Clearly Lorenzo was at fault since he hit both Pedrosa and Dovizioso...
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: speedfr on May 06, 2018, 04:55:52 PM
Nop, how could he twist his head to look inside at this speed with Dovi missing his breaking point in front of him ? its impossible.
What will you do if it was you ? look inside, deviate and let Pedrosa pass ? From the sofa, easy, on the track, i m p o s s i b l e.
Even if he knew the gap between him and Dani.

Edit : And he didn't "hit" Dani, he went back to the apex on the curve.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on May 06, 2018, 05:04:30 PM
Clearly Lorenzo was at fault since he hit both Pedrosa and Dovizioso...
Uh, well ... he hit Dovi after him and Dani made contact, can't really blame Jorge for that (for hitting Dovi I mean).

To me it's 50-50% between Jorge and Dani: Dani went in fair but hard (unusual for him) and Jorge was probably not expecting him to be there.
Race stuff to me, with a fair bit of bad luck for all.

Still trying to figure out why when Dani goes down he always has to go up 3m in the sky first :)
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Wimp #97 on May 06, 2018, 05:07:11 PM
My opinion on the incident.

Lorenzo completely cut back to the inside whilst it didn't even give him a better exit and also he should know pedrosa was behind, so that move is pretty risky.

Pedrosa tried too hard to get the 2 positions but misjudged lorenzo's cut back inside. You can even see pedrosa significantly apply the throttle in the middle of the corner to get infront of them, but he was too late.

Pedrosa was the one who had the worst judgement of the situation and should not have gone for the double overtake as he was already quite far behind before they went into the turn so he had to gain a lot to overtake them "cleanly" or rather "clearly".

Lorenzo had no chance once he picked his line. You can argue that he shouldn't cut back as much, but in my opinion he still had "right of way" even though it was a dumb thing to do.

Both riders were kind of at fault but I think its 60% pedrosa and 40% lorenzo's fault and 100% Dovi's loss...

Bad luck Dovi strikes again...



Also that freaking marquez slide over the gravel at like 180kph !?  :o Dude is unreal! You can hate him but you have to love his talent and riding skill...
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: uberslug on May 06, 2018, 05:12:42 PM
The only one of the three on the racing line was Pedrosa since Dovi and Lorenzo out braked each other far too deep into the corner. They were practically stopped when they got the bikes turned. Perhaps Pedrosa was greedy, but, given the issues both Ducati riders were having with their tires and their dicing with each other, it was Pedrosa's chance to get them behind him. Lorenzo was focused on getting back past Dovi and not on his on track position with regard to Pedrosa.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: davidboda46 on May 06, 2018, 05:13:36 PM
Clearly Lorenzo was at fault since he hit both Pedrosa and Dovizioso...

Clear racing incident, a series of mistakes/miscalculations from all three riders resulting in an unfortunate accident. Dovi outbraked himself and went wide while trying to overtake Jorge, Lorenzo also went wide (because of Dovi's move), did not calculate that Dani was coming as fast as he did, Dani seeing Lorenzo going wide thought he had enough time to go trough in the gap. Lorenzo, not seeing Dani tried to cut back to the apex, Dani not seeing Lorenzo kept his speed on his inside line, Dovizioso was stuck on the outside. Lorenzo sees Dani too late, tries to pick up his bike but they collide, sending Dani into the air. The collision takes Lorenzo's bike wide, into Dovi who has nowhere to go... Unfortunate for all of them but no one in particular is to blame. None of the moves were crazy, no one was intentionally forcing anybody of the track... it was one of those riders going for the same piece of tarmac at the same time. If you want to see someone to blame and call stupid, look at Canet's move in the Moto3 race... now there is someone to blame (and it's not the first time he does something like that, or even worse).

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46     
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on May 06, 2018, 05:16:44 PM
Also that freaking marquez slide over the gravel at like 180kph !?  :o Dude is unreal! You can hate him but you have to love his talent and riding skill...
Right, that was insane. The slow-mo also is just great, spot on.

When I've seen Rins slide out I've noticed immediately the gravel flying on the track but I was kind of thinking it was not on the trajectory ...

Can't figure out how MM did not shit in his leathers, I know I would.

Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: speedfr on May 06, 2018, 05:37:24 PM
Clearly Lorenzo was at fault since he hit both Pedrosa and Dovizioso...

Clear racing incident, a series of mistakes/miscalculations from all three riders resulting in an unfortunate accident. Dovi outbraked himself and went wide while trying to overtake Jorge, Lorenzo also went wide (because of Dovi's move), did not calculate that Dani was coming as fast as he did, Dani seeing Lorenzo going wide thought he had enough time to go trough in the gap. Lorenzo, not seeing Dani tried to cut back to the apex, Dani not seeing Lorenzo kept his speed on his inside line, Dovizioso was stuck on the outside. Lorenzo sees Dani too late, tries to pick up his bike but they collide, sending Dani into the air. The collision takes Lorenzo's bike wide, into Dovi who has nowhere to go... Unfortunate for all of them but no one in particular is to blame. None of the moves were crazy, no one was intentionally forcing anybody of the track... it was one of those riders going for the same piece of tarmac at the same time. If you want to see someone to blame and call stupid, look at Canet's move in the Moto3 race... now there is someone to blame (and it's not the first time he does something like that, or even worse).

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46   

Totally agree with this statment.
Racing incident.

And yes, Pedrosa is so light that he flies each time, poor Dani.

Same analysis about Canet who killed Martin's race, and has the guts to shout at him after  :o
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: matty0l215 on May 06, 2018, 05:38:07 PM
Racing incident, Nothing more.

Wrong place wrong time for all involved, Pedrosa was unlucky that Lorenzo tried to ride over the top of him and Lorenzo didn't really get the time to react to a Honda being where he wanted to go. Dovi was just collateral damage at that point...

Right, that was insane. The slow-mo also is just great, spot on.
When I've seen Rins slide out I've noticed immediately the gravel flying on the track but I was kind of thinking it was not on the trajectory ...
Can't figure out how MM did not shit in his leathers, I know I would.

Holy hell how did he not crash :o

Reguardless of the fact i am not a fan of him, He is an amazing rider!
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Wimp #97 on May 06, 2018, 06:02:07 PM
Also that freaking marquez slide over the gravel at like 180kph !?  :o Dude is unreal! You can hate him but you have to love his talent and riding skill...
Right, that was insane. The slow-mo also is just great, spot on.

When I've seen Rins slide out I've noticed immediately the gravel flying on the track but I was kind of thinking it was not on the trajectory ...

Can't figure out how MM did not shit in his leathers, I know I would.

It was Luthi but ye similar crash :D
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: speedfr on May 06, 2018, 06:10:52 PM
BTW, great for Oettl, after 6 years of racing, he finally will have one.  ;D
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Wimp #97 on May 06, 2018, 07:23:35 PM
BTW, great for Oettl, after 6 years of racing, he finally will have one.  ;D

Ye and deserved aswell, he was fastest but always seems to miss that aggression when it comes to battling it out.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on May 06, 2018, 09:12:52 PM
(http://email.motogp.com/img/419v/b/1m1v8/499i.jpeg)

Gotta give it to Dorna, their tv production is top notch.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: matty0l215 on May 06, 2018, 09:15:33 PM
I belive I can fly
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Vini on May 07, 2018, 03:04:23 PM
IMO the crash was lorenzo's fault. he knew dani was very close and after running wide you have to expect the rider behind to slip through. you cant just cut back to the inside like that because the rider on the inside cant see you. jorge always insists on his line and ignores other riders on track because its the only way he can win with his riding style.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: guigui404 on May 07, 2018, 03:07:00 PM
IMO the crash was lorenzo's fault. he knew dani was very close and after running wide you have to expect the rider behind to slip through. you cant just cut back to the inside like that because the rider on the inside cant see you. jorge always insists on his line and ignores other riders on track because its the only way he can win with his riding style.

One of the most stupid thing I've read here
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Vini on May 07, 2018, 03:09:07 PM
watch the helicopter angle: https://streamable.com/gppmn
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: davidboda46 on May 07, 2018, 03:56:23 PM
watch the helicopter angle: https://streamable.com/gppmn

He didn't know Dani was so close. Dovi said in an interview that Lorenzo's pit board did not show that they were three riders in the group, only the gap back to Dovi. Pedrosa was quite a long way back when Dovi passed Jorge so Lorenzo could not have heard Dani's bike in that moment. 

Interestingly Dovi, clearly disappointed for loss of points for the championship, mostly blames Pedrosa and Jorge's pit board:

"Dani is the rider behind so he can manage better the situation, but he didn't because he entered too fast. I think this happened because the were too much on the limit and had to do something in the battle and both did a mistake. Jorge also made a little mistake because he didn't care about the inside line because he was a little bit out of the line. It's true, from the helmet it's impossible to see inside, but you have to take care and he didn't. But this happened because in the pit board they didn't say to him that we were three riders. But this is from the rider. The rider decide what he want on the pit board and he don't want that but I think this is a mistake and is the reason why it happened today." 

Dani on the other hand was pissed off because race direction didn't explain their reasoning afterwards. From Crash.net:

“Well of course I had a big, big crash again and I was lying down and then I see they decide 'race incident' and of course we can see it's a race incident. But I went there to speak to Race Direction because I want to understand them.
It was a race incident for me in Argentina - it wasn't for Marc with Vale, but Zarco and me, yes. I highside because I pull up the bike. After Zarco's mistake coming into the [corner] I tried to give space, I finally end up in the hospital and this time - OK Lorenzo maybe don't see me, don't look or didn't expect me there or whatever – but he didn't pick up the bike and 'boom!' we ended up crashing. And I highside again. And again 'race incident'.
So I go there to understand what is the point and how they judge things because from my point of view, it wasn't just that easy. At the end you have many other riders watching the incident, many other riders in Moto3 and Moto2 taking example of us, and this was a triple accident! Which I was never involved before.
I ask them, 'How do you judge this?' because I don’t understand. And then we start asking, ‘OK so I was on the inside, I was on the correct line on the track yes? They were on the outside and coming back from a mistake so they were re-joining the correct line on the track, yes?
So, when you are in the right line who has the preference, the guy who is inside or the guy who is outside?' The guy who is inside. OK, so then whose fault [was it]? 'Well we already took our decision."

Full article:
https://www.crash.net/1/pedrosa-disappointed-race-direction-after-fall (https://www.crash.net/1/pedrosa-disappointed-race-direction-after-fall)

Lorenzo pretty much just said: "bad luck".

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Vini on May 07, 2018, 04:04:50 PM
ok then lorenzo has an excuse for this one but it's a general problem with his riding, which is optimized for leading alone. he has to ignore the rider behind because otherwise he cannot use the advantage of a wide corner entry. so he always stands the bike up in the absolute last moment and acts all surprised that somebody is in front of him. same for rossi's move in san marino 2016.

anyway, i totally understand dani being angry. he sums it up perfectly, if you cut back to the line after blowing a corner you have to look behind for a moment first.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: guigui404 on May 07, 2018, 04:36:04 PM
ok then lorenzo has an excuse for this one but it's a general problem with his riding, which is optimized for leading alone. he has to ignore the rider behind because otherwise he cannot use the advantage of a wide corner entry. so he always stands the bike up in the absolute last moment and acts all surprised that somebody is in front of him. same for rossi's move in san marino 2016.

anyway, i totally understand dani being angry. he sums it up perfectly, if you cut back to the line after blowing a corner you have to look behind for a moment first.

I don't know what the hell you're talking about on the lorenzo "general problem"
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: speedfr on May 07, 2018, 05:29:40 PM
Cooldown guys..

Why people can't express themselves normally ? We don't need angryness.
Everybody can says, and let's debate about it, please remain gentlemen....   :D


Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: guigui404 on May 07, 2018, 05:47:08 PM
Just find it a little easy to always talk about Lorenzo , about his salary , about him struggling on ducati , also don't know why people say Lorenzo is always complaining . And now for a contact that cost him a possible podium wao , insane , yes ofc it's his fault , he went on pedrosa on purpose to crash and lost his podium chance ^^
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Hawk on May 07, 2018, 06:23:10 PM
Personally looking at that incident, I totally agree with Pedros's conclusion that Lorenzo having made the mistake of going wide into the corner should've had the whereabouts and sense to just glance back and assess the situation before cutting across into the path of Pedrosa like he did..... After all, Lorenzo pace through that corner had consequently drastically slowed-down and he certainly didn't need to cut back that sharply to take the corner at the pace he ended up going at; so you also have to ask yourself whether he was doing it to purposely to block Pedrosa from coming through? If that was his intention then Lorenzo is a bloody fool on par with MM.

Personally I think Lorenzo did cut back into Pedrosa line on purpose.... he just wasn't expecting Pedrosa to be going so fast that he couldn't avoid hitting him..... So yeah, definitely Lorenzo's fault in my opinion.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: guigui404 on May 07, 2018, 07:07:15 PM
Personnaly , I think , Lorenzo don't care about the Hawk opinion about this crash , as most of real rider statement say it is a race incident
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on May 07, 2018, 07:14:51 PM
so you also have to ask yourself whether he was doing it to purposely to block Pedrosa from coming through? If that was his intention then Lorenzo is a bloody fool on par with MM.
Yeah, cause shutting the door to avoid being passed is a crime perpetuated only by "bloody fools" in racing ...

Of course Dani is pissed off, that's understandable. But to be honest, so is Dovi and so is Jorge.

The only good thing of the accident (on top of  the fact that Dani didn't get hurt) is that MM was not involved, 'cause otherwise we'd have executions squads going around for him, no matter if he was in Dovi's, Jorge's or Dani's shoes.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: uberslug on May 07, 2018, 07:20:25 PM
Personnaly , I think , Lorenzo don't care about the Hawk opinion about this crash , as most of real rider statement say it is a race incident

One can be 'at fault' without there being malicious intent. If one backs out of a parking space into another vehicle one is deemed 'at fault' no matter how one tries to spin it to the authorities or the owner of the other vehicle. The only one of the three who was on the racing line was Pedrosa and it is very clear from all available angles that Lorenzo's actions led to the 'incident'.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: speedfr on May 07, 2018, 07:47:14 PM
Ok, so what about this idea to add some oil on the fire : Pedrosa coming from behind, was the only one that could see the entire scene, so he should have braking away and avoid the mess...  :o

I'm not fan of Lorenzo (as Guigui404 looks like  ;) ) but respect for a true Champion.
I'm not fan of Pedrosa (but he has all my respect because he is a nice AND fast guy which is not Lorenzo's case - to be nice, who loves to make clivage between people, it's his strength, you like him or dislike him but everybody has an idea about that),
I'm not fan of Dovi but same as Pedrosa, nice and fast guy. He was heading for second postion in Championship.

I just think its awfull for the 3 of them, and yes, Lorenzo was sliding and playing the cork in Jerez corners for Dovi and Pedrosa, but he was doing his race and trying to be the first of the 3 which is what we're waiting for from a competitor. Maybe Ducati should have ask him to let Dovi pass, but we all know that i'd prefer to die than to give his place, but hey, that's racing, what else ?
And in 30+ yrs, never seen such a strike eliminating the 3 pilots.


Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on May 07, 2018, 08:55:22 PM
Ok, so what about this idea to add some oil on the fire : Pedrosa coming from behind, was the only one that could see the entire scene, so he should have braking away and avoid the mess...  :o
Thats why I give him part of the responsibility. But hey, he saw an opportunity and, for once, tried to grab it immediately.
Had Jorge managet to avoid him, I'm sure 100% of the people would have said "Great move by Dani !".
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: davidboda46 on May 07, 2018, 09:04:29 PM
If we are discussing who is the most responsible I would have to say Jorge (I am not saying he did anything bad on purpose). He went wide and Dani went for a legitimate gap that was there and he stayed on the racing line through the corner. My theory is (and I'm truly just guessing here) that Jorge was worried that Dovi would have a good drive and grab the inside into the upcoming left hander, opening up for an overtake on Jorge. So Jorge took the fastest route and the line that would set him up for the next turn so he could keep Dovi behind him. The problem was that he forgot about Dani because of reasons I mentioned in my previous posts, and because he was fixated on his teammate.

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: speedfr on May 07, 2018, 09:17:59 PM
In Moto3, Aron Canet will start from the last line on the Bugatti grid in Le Mans sayd FIM MotoGP.
And in Moto2, Marini will go 6 places back on the grid after putting Navarro away.
 :(




Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Warlock on May 08, 2018, 11:09:49 AM
The only one of the three who was on the racing line was Pedrosa and it is very clear from all available angles that Lorenzo's actions led to the 'incident'.

This.
If one makes a mistake and runs out of the line, u have to take care when rejoining the line. You have to think someone can be already there

@Guigui , never forget history, watch some incidents between both riders in 250cc. Lorenzo hasn't always have been the cool guy you think he is.
If it were Lorenzo o Valentino in the position of Pedrosa i can imagine their fans blaming Pedrosa for a stupid move crashing into them
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: guigui404 on May 08, 2018, 01:03:58 PM
You always do that dude , we're not repertoring how many times lorenzo did an error this wasn't , if you want to play this i can say , pedrosa on dovi last year , pedrosa on hayden long time ago , so please , stop stupid arguments
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Hawk on May 08, 2018, 01:23:37 PM
You always do that dude , we're not repertoring how many times lorenzo did an error this wasn't , if you want to play this i can say , pedrosa on dovi last year , pedrosa on hayden long time ago , so please , stop stupid arguments

C'mon guigui404, everyone else can see that Lorenzo was at fault in this incident....
Your love for Lorenzo has surely blinded you mate. Haha! :P ;D
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Warlock on May 08, 2018, 03:38:54 PM
You always do that dude

 ??? 

so please , stop stupid arguments

Arguments like these ?

One of the most stupid thing I've read here

Seems you think everyone here is stupid, grow up m8.
My argument is clear here, where is yours?

If one makes a mistake and runs out of the line, u have to take care when rejoining the line. You have to think someone can be already there

No one is saying he did it on purpose, but is clearly his fault
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on May 08, 2018, 04:08:11 PM
The problem was that he forgot about Dani because of reasons I mentioned in my previous posts, and because he was fixated on his teammate.
Yeah, that could be (he probably went wide just because Dovi ewent wide just in front).
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: guigui404 on May 08, 2018, 05:22:11 PM
You always do that dude

 ??? 

so please , stop stupid arguments

Arguments like these ?

One of the most stupid thing I've read here

Seems you think everyone here is stupid, grow up m8.
My argument is clear here, where is yours?

If one makes a mistake and runs out of the line, u have to take care when rejoining the line. You have to think someone can be already there

No one is saying he did it on purpose, but is clearly his fault

That's clearly why I'm angry , because it's not his fault at all , how could he see pedrosa please ? tell me
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: guigui404 on May 08, 2018, 05:24:16 PM
You always do that dude , we're not repertoring how many times lorenzo did an error this wasn't , if you want to play this i can say , pedrosa on dovi last year , pedrosa on hayden long time ago , so please , stop stupid arguments

C'mon guigui404, everyone else can see that Lorenzo was at fault in this incident....
Your love for Lorenzo has surely blinded you mate. Haha! :P ;D

I don't really care about a particular rider , as I'm a Biaggi fan .Everyone else ? Who is everyone else ?
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: guigui404 on May 08, 2018, 05:32:14 PM
SO it's simple , even dovi said it , Lorenzo couldn't know pedrosa was there as pitboard wasn't talking about him at all , and ofc after he run wide it was impossible to see pedrosa coming . Now Warlock , try to be a bit more realist and don't use something like , everybody think like me , or , grow up mate .You upset me so much
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: uberslug on May 08, 2018, 06:34:04 PM
That's clearly why I'm angry , because it's not his fault at all , how could he see pedrosa please ? tell me

He easily could have seen someone coming if he had checked the racing line for occupants prior to returning to it.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: guigui404 on May 08, 2018, 06:47:52 PM
Of course , he could , if it was mower racing at 25km/h
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: uberslug on May 08, 2018, 07:00:10 PM
Of course , he could , if it was mower racing at 25km/h

Really? Your Lorenzo love is getting the best of you...
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: guigui404 on May 08, 2018, 07:06:25 PM
The problem is , i'm not defending lorenzo , i'm defending the POV of most of the professionnal of the motorbike saynig it was a racing incident , even dovi that suffer a lot from this crash. The second problem is , most of your arguments are , "U like Lorenzo hihihi" already say I'm a Biaggi fan and I don't know where the fuck this have to do with the incident we trying to state about , Am I wrong ?
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: uberslug on May 08, 2018, 07:13:51 PM
The problem is , i'm not defending lorenzo , i'm defending the POV of most of the professionnal of the motorbike saynig it was a racing incident , even dovi that suffer a lot from this crash. The second problem is , most of your arguments are , "U like Lorenzo hihihi" already say I'm a Biaggi fan and I don't know where the fuck this have to do with the incident we trying to state about , Am I wrong ?

It was a 'racing incident' which was the direct result of Lorenzo's actions even though race direction decided not to penalize him. The gravel on the track was also a 'racing incident', a direct result of Luthi's actions, and, to the best of my knowledge, did not draw a penalty from race direction even though it could have taken out all four of the leaders.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Warlock on May 08, 2018, 07:23:24 PM
That's clearly why I'm angry , because it's not his fault at all , how could he see pedrosa please ? tell me

Turning his head 20º to the right for a split of a second, maybe? ,  He knew he was a mile out of the line, so he should have looked back.
They weren't riding at 25km/h, but neither more than 100km/h, Dry sack corner is a slow one

Look this again , please :

https://streamable.com/gppmn


You upset me so much

Deal with it, same i do with you.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Hawk on May 08, 2018, 08:50:13 PM
That's clearly why I'm angry , because it's not his fault at all , how could he see pedrosa please ? tell me

Turning his head 20º to the right for a split of a second, maybe? ,  He knew he was a mile out of the line, so he should have looked back.
They weren't riding at 25km/h, but neither more than 100km/h, Dry sack corner is a slow one

Look this again , please :

https://streamable.com/gppmn


You upset me so much

Deal with it, same i do with you.

+1
Totally agree with what you said there Warlock..... Lorenzo should've and could've easily just glanced back to reassess his situation before cutting back in so sharply as he did; that was Lorenzo's big mistake, nothing more.
If he'd have glanced back he'd have seen Pedrosa coming up and through on the racing line and given him room to go through. The fact that he is a multi world champion with great race experience tells me that he knew exactly what he was doing in trying to cut across Pedros's line on purpose in an attempt to block Pedrosa.
If your going that much slower through the corner cause you've overshot the race line then it's your responsibility to make sure that when you come back online through that corner that your not putting other riders in danger by doing so, same as if you ran off track and looking to come back on track safely. It's just basic rider behaviour safety etiquette, something that apparently the riders of today like to ignore.... They seem to have a win at any cost attitude these days no matter the risk to anyone else due to ones actions in achieving that..... Basically the same attitude we see in computer race games today..... Maybe Lorenzo and MM have been playing too much Milestone MotoGP for their own good! Haha! ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: guigui404 on May 08, 2018, 09:49:53 PM
As always in motoGP if Lorenzo is involved it's his fault , quite the same for Marquez. I think I can figure why you all think that  ::)
Anyway , we will see you do this during all the season , blaming drivers (Lorenzo or Marquez) that aren't at fault from the professionnal POV ( and I don't think you're a motoGP driver or something close to it )
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Warlock on May 08, 2018, 11:12:47 PM
Oh, yes of course, sorry , it's Max Biaggi talking there ,  stupid me   ::)

I will blame ANY rider that try to win at all cost putting in risk other riders innecesarily. Marc Marquez has owned it , Ianonne has owned it, Rossi has owned it, Zarco is working on it  ;D, etc
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Napalm Nick on May 08, 2018, 11:43:12 PM
It was a racing incident caused by Lorenzo mistake. Ran wide and didn't think anyone would be inside him. So yeh his fault but still just a racing incident (mistake without intent, no penalty correct etc)

I mean what is this fuss all about?  ??? Everyone here seems to agree on that. I don't think there is such a thing as a racing incident without anyone being at fault no?

More importantly what about poor old Cal!  :'(  ;D

Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Warlock on May 09, 2018, 01:31:15 AM
I don't think there is such a thing as a racing incident without anyone being at fault no?

Exactly, otherwise would be called accident.

Lately i see too much use of those ... too comfortable words, to avoid blaming anyone , even from race direction (for whatever reason,... fanboysm , teams pressure, social pressure...)

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/pedrosa-wants-more-respect-from-race-direction-1034469/


Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on May 09, 2018, 06:07:00 AM
I don't think there is such a thing as a racing incident without anyone being at fault no?

Exactly, otherwise would be called accident.
Maybe true, but there defintely is such a thing as "shared responsibility" of a racing incident.
And in these situations, race direction tends to avoid giving penalties (especially when both/all involved riders crashed out).
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: uberslug on May 09, 2018, 10:38:25 AM
I don't think there is such a thing as a racing incident without anyone being at fault no?

Exactly, otherwise would be called accident.


There are no accidents, there is only negligence.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: matty0l215 on May 09, 2018, 10:54:48 AM
More importantly what about poor old Cal!  :'(  ;D

Old habbits die hard it seems for him. He looks like he's going back into his older Tech 3 race habbits

He makes a storm in practice and qualiy but his first few laps worth of pace is to poor for him to get any lead so he is left fiight and pushing all the time...

Lets hope that he doesnt try another Ducati move with Suzuki or KTM (just rumors that he's going to leave LCR) but he bitches and says stuff lime that all the time ::)
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Warlock on May 09, 2018, 02:52:46 PM
There are no accidents, there is only negligence.

I agree most times, but accidents also exists.    Shoya Tomizawa


More importantly what about poor old Cal!  :'(  ;D

Yeah,  a real shame , i like to see him at the front


Maybe true, but there defintely is such a thing as "shared responsibility" of a racing incident.

True, Valentino-Marquez  kind of situation
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on May 09, 2018, 04:21:41 PM
Maybe true, but there defintely is such a thing as "shared responsibility" of a racing incident.

True, Valentino-Marquez  kind of situation

Which one ? :)
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Warlock on May 09, 2018, 06:42:55 PM
all of them  lol  ;D
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: speedfr on May 18, 2018, 06:40:34 PM
I didn't read it but i heard during FP2 that Dovi is finally signed for 2 more years at Ducat'.
Good.
Now it's on the Bowling Pro Striker that the eyes are turned too...  ;D
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on May 20, 2018, 10:44:16 AM
:)

https://twitter.com/darcyf1/status/998137248750059520 (https://twitter.com/darcyf1/status/998137248750059520)
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: matty0l215 on May 20, 2018, 10:49:04 AM
holy shit!

What a save :P
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Hawk on May 20, 2018, 11:20:20 AM
holy shit!

What a save :P

Save!? Lol! Pure bloody luck I'd say! Haha!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: speedfr on May 20, 2018, 03:42:31 PM
He can retire in MX whenever !!!  ;D
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: speedfr on May 21, 2018, 07:44:43 PM
Well, then the second Ducati pilot for 2019-2020 is gonna be "elected" before Mugello starts.

And i don't know what you guys think about that but i have my own idea.
And sorry for #99 but i think the best for Ducati is Petrux.
He will be a perfect second pilot for Dovi, he is Italian, he is good, he struggles constantly and on the human side, i think he is a lot easier to live with than Lorenzo.
And he will accept a third or less of Lorenzo pay.

If i could bet about it, i'll bet on Petrux. Or Miller. But not on JL.

I think Suzuki is waiting to know about Ducati's choice to either takes Lorenzo or confirm Ianonne. 2 weeks to know how the next years are going to be.  :)
 
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on June 01, 2018, 02:34:02 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7B2H0jIAPA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7B2H0jIAPA)
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: matty0l215 on June 01, 2018, 04:53:25 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7B2H0jIAPA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i7B2H0jIAPA)

Blocked by Dorna :P
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: matty0l215 on June 01, 2018, 04:54:52 PM
https://www.youtube.com/v/Seo4qPPkALk

Shit that must have hurt
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: uberslug on June 01, 2018, 06:19:01 PM
He probably didn't even feel the initial impact since it knocked him unconscious.

The REAL pain will start sometime tomorrow...
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on June 01, 2018, 08:09:07 PM
Apparently he's doing quite OK. Very minor bruises and a bit of a memory problem (which is normal).

The real question is: wtf happened ?!?!
It doens't look normal at all ... Ducati shielded behind a "no comment" which per se indicates something fishy.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: speedfr on June 01, 2018, 08:37:05 PM
i think right before it starts a stoppie at 300Km/h, he had wooobles, that pushed the brakes pad away then when he took the brakes it went violently against the disk and no smooth in the braking action. (De Puniet explanation and that sounds correct to me)
What a flight... He is probably full of broken bones - look how his arms are doing... Scary... he is at least in the same state as S.Byrne.  :o
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on June 01, 2018, 08:38:58 PM
i think right before it starts a stoppie at 300Km/h, he had wooobles, that pushed the brakes pad away then when he took the brakes it went violently against the disk and no smooth in the braking action. (De Puniet explanation and that sounds correct to me)
What a flight... He is probably full of broken bones - look how his arms are doing... Scary... he is at least in the same state as S.Byrne.  :o
Not a single broken bone.

But I really really find it hard to accept the explanation above.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: speedfr on June 01, 2018, 08:54:01 PM
Not to me, i remenber at Le Mans, years ago, going to a talk to a mechanic guy that i know in the pitstop (during EWC race) and they were talking about that and how a "kind of spring" could pushed the pads back but how it will bother them when changing disk or pads during pitstops.
So, it never happened to me personnaly but i know that people are trying to reduce that effect, so it exists.

And when i saw the video tonight on Eurosport, i thought about it and when De Puniet gave this explanation, i found that correct because it happens.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: uberslug on June 01, 2018, 09:41:14 PM
I doesn't look as the wobble was vicious enough to push the pads into the calipers. Perhaps the wobble made him miss his braking point and the subsequent over braking lead to the mishap.

Had he not been unconscious he surely would have broken a number of bones.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: matty0l215 on June 01, 2018, 09:55:46 PM
Had he not been unconscious he surely would have broken a number of bones.

How/Why?? Genuine question.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on June 01, 2018, 10:45:07 PM
Not to me, i remenber at Le Mans, years ago, going to a talk to a mechanic guy that i know in the pitstop (during EWC race) and they were talking about that and how a "kind of spring" could pushed the pads back but how it will bother them when changing disk or pads during pitstops.
So, it never happened to me personnaly but i know that people are trying to reduce that effect, so it exists.

And when i saw the video tonight on Eurosport, i thought about it and when De Puniet gave this explanation, i found that correct because it happens.
I still think that if Ducati has answered with a "no comment", there may be something else behind.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: speedfr on June 01, 2018, 11:47:25 PM
Do you think they are "hidding" a sort of mechanical issue around the brake/front tyre ?

Most of the pilot talks about this "little" bump right when taking the brakes so it could be a pure physical issue, mass transfert at this exact point, i don't know but hey, i remenber Nakano rear tyre explosion or MM licking the wall, this end of this long strait is a piece of bravery before entering San Donato.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: uberslug on June 02, 2018, 12:55:36 AM
Had he not been unconscious he surely would have broken a number of bones.

How/Why?? Genuine question.

The natural tendency is to try to control one's body during a crash.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Mace-x on June 02, 2018, 01:52:33 AM
Had he not been unconscious he surely would have broken a number of bones.

How/Why?? Genuine question.

Because when you´re concious you try to tuck or harden your muscles, as he was  unconscious he couldnt react, tuck or harden any muscles, hence he ragdolls brutally and dissipates impact energy in a better way.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on June 02, 2018, 11:05:20 AM
Do you think they are "hidding" a sort of mechanical issue around the brake/front tyre ?
I'd say there's at least a chance.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: speedfr on June 02, 2018, 12:21:10 PM
Petrux signed at Ducati Corse with Dovi for next year !!!  ;D

Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: speedfr on June 03, 2018, 04:03:11 PM
Fantastic races, Martin, Oliveira and Lorenzo, no Italian victory...  :o
I'm really happy for Miguel, really cuz Pasini should have won.

Great Mugello week-end.  :)
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: speedfr on June 05, 2018, 07:31:00 PM
Aie, aie, aie....

Pedrosa is quiting the HRC and Lorenzo is joining, after reading the news tonight, i have to take a deep breath !
Lorenzo and Marquez in the same box... Sparks incoming !!!
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: matty0l215 on June 05, 2018, 07:35:41 PM
Oh boy. This will be intersting.

What excusses can he come up with for Honda  ;D
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Vini on June 05, 2018, 07:54:32 PM
rip competition. in two years the honda will be unbeatable.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on June 05, 2018, 08:47:35 PM
Well at least nobody will be able to say he chickens out from teammate competition.
Not sure how many would accept to go to HRC against MM ...
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: guigui404 on June 05, 2018, 08:57:51 PM
Well at least nobody will be able to say he chickens out from teammate competition.
Not sure how many would accept to go to HRC against MM ...

Also it's funny that many MotoGP fan said that he wasn't a top rider because of the ducati year , but he still get an offer from Honda , fun fact
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: speedfr on June 05, 2018, 08:59:01 PM
Yes but Jorge didn't have much choice too... it's either HRC or nothing almost.
Can't wait to see that #93 + #99 in the same box... :o
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Davide74 on June 13, 2018, 12:12:06 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/sessjtn.jpg)

.......
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: neoraptor on June 13, 2018, 12:15:04 PM
Might well be his retirement announcement  :'(
I hope not, but there are not much interesting seat left.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: neoraptor on June 13, 2018, 03:51:17 PM
It looks that it is already official > https://imotorbike.my/news/2018/06/motogp-dani-pedrosa-to-retire-from-racing
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Warlock on June 14, 2018, 04:25:04 PM
 :'(
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: neoraptor on June 14, 2018, 04:31:41 PM
Nothing yet decided, but it looks like he may keep racing next year !
> https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/898169/1/pedrosa-sorry-i-have-several-options
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: matty0l215 on June 14, 2018, 06:22:50 PM
He would be a good development rider for one of the smaller team but then he would be taking up a seat. Maybe time for the WSBK retirement??
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on June 14, 2018, 08:54:02 PM
He would be a good development rider for one of the smaller team but then he would be taking up a seat. Maybe time for the WSBK retirement??
I don't see him retiring to a lower class.

Very decent carreer, even if often in the shadow of better riders.
Very nice guy from what I've seen, loved by most if not all.

Always been amazing to see such a tiny body on such a beast of a bike :)

Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: matty0l215 on June 14, 2018, 09:00:12 PM
Not down, Sideways :P

To a team like KTM or Aprilia but there aren't any spare seats for that. His knowledge is invaluable and he just was in the wrong place at the wrong time for most of his career (like you say, often in someone else's shadow) if only he had a number one spot on the Honda for a season
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: speedfr on June 15, 2018, 12:20:58 AM
So he said he is not going to retire in 2019.
And has good options but he didn't want to mention anything else.
Wait and see.  :)

I might be wrong but i don't see him running in WSBK next year. Imho.

Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on June 16, 2018, 12:41:40 PM
Just. Not. Human.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndvu9V097fE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ndvu9V097fE)

What for others is a once in a lifetime thing at best, for him it's becoming routine.
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: matty0l215 on June 16, 2018, 01:44:42 PM
His knees must hurt so much  :o

That or he can leg press over 200kg per leg :P
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Hawk on June 16, 2018, 02:00:06 PM
Another example of something he'd have never got away with in the glory days of GP500.  :o :o ;D ;D

Bring it on! Lol!  :P ;D
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: matty0l215 on June 16, 2018, 02:10:23 PM
GP500 he would learn to fly with the bike instead of high siding :P
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: HornetMaX on June 17, 2018, 09:54:01 AM
You'll have to register to waych it (just register, after that the video is free, along with others):

http://www.motogp.com/en/videos/2018/06/16/marquez-re-writes-physics-watch-it-from-all-angles/262551 (http://www.motogp.com/en/videos/2018/06/16/marquez-re-writes-physics-watch-it-from-all-angles/262551)

The facial expressions of the guys in the paddock  ;D
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: speedfr on June 17, 2018, 11:18:16 AM
Fabulous Fabio !!! Yes.
So happy for this guy.  ;D

Lorenzo Magnifico, really, Honda is going to be unbeatable next year.
Great "save" for Bastianini as well, the objective was to survive  :o

Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: Blackheart on June 18, 2018, 09:49:09 AM
https://www.youtube.com/v/JlH8Mu3oTvw

... why?  ???
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: KG_03 on June 18, 2018, 10:35:11 AM
OMFG, I didn't see it yet...but it must have been a big punch :-O
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: guigui404 on June 18, 2018, 10:55:24 AM
I didn't read it but i heard during FP2 that Dovi is finally signed for 2 more years at Ducat'.
Good.
Now it's on the Bowling Pro Striker that the eyes are turned too...  ;D

Something too add about the "Bowling Pro Striker" speedfr ?
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: speedfr on June 18, 2018, 11:17:22 AM
I didn't read it but i heard during FP2 that Dovi is finally signed for 2 more years at Ducat'.
Good.
Now it's on the Bowling Pro Striker that the eyes are turned too...  ;D

Something too add about the "Bowling Pro Striker" speedfr ?

???
Nothing more than you or others, for the strike, since 2 GP he is ahead so he can't strike anybody  ;D
But don't misunderstand Guigui, we all understood you're big fan of Lorenzo and i'm not the one who has anything against Lorenzo but when he does a strike, like he did, the ones that likes him doesn't accept any word in the bad way...
I'm not pro or against Lorenzo, just go up a few lines and you'll see. When he rides like the two last races, he is the Great Jorge we all knew and except applausing him and crying for the pilot we support, there's nothing else to do.
But i've got my part with Fabio being incredible.
Any other thing ?  :)
Title: Re: FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018
Post by: guigui404 on June 18, 2018, 03:59:16 PM
I would totally agree with you if he had strike someone but he couldn't see Pedrosa aswell. Like you said Fabio did amazing job thanksfully for us , we didn't heard our National Anthem since a while