PiBoSo Official Forum
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Suggestions and wishlist / More surface types
« Message by Phathry25 on November 29, 2018, 04:50:11 AM »I know I've made various suggestions about this in the past, please review those if you'd like as well. :)
We just got done turning about 400 laps on a track and it was awesome how the track and line evolved over the course of the laps. A few things came up as we were driving.
The track naturally starts off smooth, and then the soft soil and soil layers erode quickly, after maybe 50 laps, and by the time the compact soil layer starts to show through in most areas of the racing line the track is just about too rough to drive on. (Relevant bits of the THT file below.) So at that point what was talked about is having the soil erode slower so smaller heights could be used when defining the layers. The drawback to this is that a cushion or lip will not form at the edge of the groove or compact soil layer. At this point we soldiered on driving the very rough line in order to get the track to smooth out a bit as more and more compact soil showed through. Eventually it got smooth enough to be decently "raceable" at which point we started to work our right rear tire onto the cushion and grippier soil/soft soil that was at the outer edge of the compact soil layer. Lap times were a little faster or equal to times that could be turned by running the compact soil line at this point. Maybe around 150-200 laps total usage on the track. So we kept running with the right rear tire out on the cushion for another 100 laps or so pushing the cushion higher and higher as we went, eventually pushing it high enough that the wall started to become a problem and the laptimes equaled back off as the was no more grippy soil left to drive on. This was probably around the 300-350 lap mark. Then we started to square off the corner, entering high and exiting low, doing our best to keep the tires in the all important soil/soft soil layers. The corner exits stated to get rough quickly and once again the quick way around became to just run the normal groove/racing line on the mostly smoothed off compact soil now.
So about the actual suggestion. Clay surface types that erode extremely slow, and an all important base clay layer that takes on rubber. In my head it works out to like base clay, clay, and clay1. That way we can start off with a track that looks fresh and then erodes to a lighter dryer layer and eventually to a dark or rubbered up layer that is slicker but eventually takes on rubber and gains a small amount of grip back. As far as erosion rates go we though somewhere around 1000 laps (total laps, 10 cars x 10laps = 100 laps) would be approximately the 150-200 lap description above. 2500 laps would be the 300-350 lap description above. So erosion for these clay surfaces would have to be somewhere around 1/10th of what the current rates are, if not more in the case of the soft soil layer which wears very quickly. As you can see below, we're working with about 12.5cm or 5" of erode before reaching the compact soil. As far as the height of the cushion goes this is mostly accurate, but we're getting there way too quick, and I am hypothesizing that that is the reason for the track getting far too rough in the early laps. Take a look below and see if you think I am using anything incorrectly, or if I can do anything differently to get a more favorable result.
I've also noticed that certain cars, or tires wear the track much more quickly than others. What all goes into calculation the erode rate and could a line be added to the tyre file to have some control over this? Just to make sure that a sprint car doesn't work the track in in 100 laps, but a midget takes 1000.
THANKS!!!!!
So for reference here are my textures and some other info....
Soft soil (freshly prepped track, most grip, 1.06, 5cm)
[img]https://i.gyazo.com/8acad6fc3c8d4f8c3091cdf0731c420f.png[/img]
Soil (water blown off, medium grip, 0.95, 7.5cm)
[img]https://i.gyazo.com/26e03b3de9b6f7152f8fb5742b997524.png[/img]
Compact soil (grooved track, least grip, 0.85, this layer should take rubber)
[img]https://i.gyazo.com/c55387b7b3b09bae2eb97a47a04c85cf.png[/img]
THT file
[code]samples_x = 1025
samples_z = 1025
data = heightmap1025.raw
size_x = 350
size_z = 350
scale = 4.43
num_material_layers = 4
material_layer0
{
material = compact soil
}
material_layer1
{
material = soil
; mask = mask_track.tga
thickness = 0.075
}
material_layer2
{
material = soft soil
mask = mask_track.tga
thickness = 0.05
}
material_layer3
{
material = grass
mask = mask_grass.tga
thickness = 0.025
}[/code]
We just got done turning about 400 laps on a track and it was awesome how the track and line evolved over the course of the laps. A few things came up as we were driving.
The track naturally starts off smooth, and then the soft soil and soil layers erode quickly, after maybe 50 laps, and by the time the compact soil layer starts to show through in most areas of the racing line the track is just about too rough to drive on. (Relevant bits of the THT file below.) So at that point what was talked about is having the soil erode slower so smaller heights could be used when defining the layers. The drawback to this is that a cushion or lip will not form at the edge of the groove or compact soil layer. At this point we soldiered on driving the very rough line in order to get the track to smooth out a bit as more and more compact soil showed through. Eventually it got smooth enough to be decently "raceable" at which point we started to work our right rear tire onto the cushion and grippier soil/soft soil that was at the outer edge of the compact soil layer. Lap times were a little faster or equal to times that could be turned by running the compact soil line at this point. Maybe around 150-200 laps total usage on the track. So we kept running with the right rear tire out on the cushion for another 100 laps or so pushing the cushion higher and higher as we went, eventually pushing it high enough that the wall started to become a problem and the laptimes equaled back off as the was no more grippy soil left to drive on. This was probably around the 300-350 lap mark. Then we started to square off the corner, entering high and exiting low, doing our best to keep the tires in the all important soil/soft soil layers. The corner exits stated to get rough quickly and once again the quick way around became to just run the normal groove/racing line on the mostly smoothed off compact soil now.
So about the actual suggestion. Clay surface types that erode extremely slow, and an all important base clay layer that takes on rubber. In my head it works out to like base clay, clay, and clay1. That way we can start off with a track that looks fresh and then erodes to a lighter dryer layer and eventually to a dark or rubbered up layer that is slicker but eventually takes on rubber and gains a small amount of grip back. As far as erosion rates go we though somewhere around 1000 laps (total laps, 10 cars x 10laps = 100 laps) would be approximately the 150-200 lap description above. 2500 laps would be the 300-350 lap description above. So erosion for these clay surfaces would have to be somewhere around 1/10th of what the current rates are, if not more in the case of the soft soil layer which wears very quickly. As you can see below, we're working with about 12.5cm or 5" of erode before reaching the compact soil. As far as the height of the cushion goes this is mostly accurate, but we're getting there way too quick, and I am hypothesizing that that is the reason for the track getting far too rough in the early laps. Take a look below and see if you think I am using anything incorrectly, or if I can do anything differently to get a more favorable result.
I've also noticed that certain cars, or tires wear the track much more quickly than others. What all goes into calculation the erode rate and could a line be added to the tyre file to have some control over this? Just to make sure that a sprint car doesn't work the track in in 100 laps, but a midget takes 1000.
THANKS!!!!!
So for reference here are my textures and some other info....
Soft soil (freshly prepped track, most grip, 1.06, 5cm)
[img]https://i.gyazo.com/8acad6fc3c8d4f8c3091cdf0731c420f.png[/img]
Soil (water blown off, medium grip, 0.95, 7.5cm)
[img]https://i.gyazo.com/26e03b3de9b6f7152f8fb5742b997524.png[/img]
Compact soil (grooved track, least grip, 0.85, this layer should take rubber)
[img]https://i.gyazo.com/c55387b7b3b09bae2eb97a47a04c85cf.png[/img]
THT file
[code]samples_x = 1025
samples_z = 1025
data = heightmap1025.raw
size_x = 350
size_z = 350
scale = 4.43
num_material_layers = 4
material_layer0
{
material = compact soil
}
material_layer1
{
material = soil
; mask = mask_track.tga
thickness = 0.075
}
material_layer2
{
material = soft soil
mask = mask_track.tga
thickness = 0.05
}
material_layer3
{
material = grass
mask = mask_grass.tga
thickness = 0.025
}[/code]
2
Suggestions and wishlist / Suggestions for dirt racing
« Message by Phathry25 on June 22, 2017, 03:32:03 AM »Here's my quick list that I came up with after being away from the game waiting on bug fixes/features. I feel like I am forgetting some things, but this list is a solid start, IMO. (20 years of sim racing experience, lead the charge in getting the last two well supported dirt racing modding platforms up and running.)
[size=12pt][u][b]Cars[/b][/u][/size]
[list]
[li]Axle 'wrap' / Pinion forces[/li]
[li]Suspension kinematics bug fix
[list][li]Suspension movement does not follow constraints[/li][/list][/li]
[li][url=http://ft.trillian.im/316200c806c00ca043c5ceef1b72e501cc76ea80/6RoOYFuackIiO1jJRQ5yiDPqOVfDd.jpg]Support for pull rod and lift arm suspensions[/url][/li]
[list][li]Axle birdcage[/li]
[li]5th spring and damper[/li][/list]
[li]Vertical ballast adjustment in garage[/li]
[li][color=pink]Display left side weight %, nose weight % and cross weight % in the garage[/color][/li]
[li]Damage[/li]
[/list]
The first three things on the car list are 100% necessary, no further development can be done until these features are added / bugs fixed. Damage is a strong want, need something to deter rough driving. Not holding up the show
[size=12pt][u][b]Tracks[/b][/u][/size]
[list][li]Drying line on dirt/clay surfaces[/li]
[li]Multiple light sources for night lighting[/li]
[li]Save/Load track state[/li]
[li]Custom surface types[/li]
[list][li]Control rate of deformation[/li]
[li]Tuning of grip levels[/li]
[li]Control of drying rate[/li][/list][/list]
I fully know custom surface types will not be added, I can see how the game is coded and why this would not be a worthwhile change. Can we settle for allowing a 2, 3, 4 suffix to be added to the soil types in the TYRE file? Drying line is a must, the added depth of simulation makes this so. Without it, the deformation alone is a novelty. Some way of controlling the deformation and drying rates of each soil type on a per track basis is also highly desirable.
[size=12pt][u][b]Game[/b][/u][/size]
[list][li]Adjust suspension constraints via garage menu[/li]
[list][li]Panhard bar pickup points[/li]
[li]Four bar pickup points on axle/birdcage and chassis[/li][/list]
[li]Proper race formats (Heats, Semis, Final)[/li]
[li]Click and hold for quicker garage adjustments[/li][/list]
Having the game automatically setup the event format would be great, a workable compromise would be to allow the grid to be set via scripting or an in game menu. Adjusting the rear suspension constrains in the garage is a need. Setting min/max and step for each joint (like what is used in the front of the car) and a place the move them in the garage menu is all that is needed.
Thanks for your time, and please, if you have any questions ask away.
[color=pink]7/19/2017 - updates in pink[/color]
[size=12pt][u][b]Cars[/b][/u][/size]
[list]
[li]Axle 'wrap' / Pinion forces[/li]
[li]Suspension kinematics bug fix
[list][li]Suspension movement does not follow constraints[/li][/list][/li]
[li][url=http://ft.trillian.im/316200c806c00ca043c5ceef1b72e501cc76ea80/6RoOYFuackIiO1jJRQ5yiDPqOVfDd.jpg]Support for pull rod and lift arm suspensions[/url][/li]
[list][li]Axle birdcage[/li]
[li]5th spring and damper[/li][/list]
[li]Vertical ballast adjustment in garage[/li]
[li][color=pink]Display left side weight %, nose weight % and cross weight % in the garage[/color][/li]
[li]Damage[/li]
[/list]
The first three things on the car list are 100% necessary, no further development can be done until these features are added / bugs fixed. Damage is a strong want, need something to deter rough driving. Not holding up the show
[size=12pt][u][b]Tracks[/b][/u][/size]
[list][li]Drying line on dirt/clay surfaces[/li]
[li]Multiple light sources for night lighting[/li]
[li]Save/Load track state[/li]
[li]Custom surface types[/li]
[list][li]Control rate of deformation[/li]
[li]Tuning of grip levels[/li]
[li]Control of drying rate[/li][/list][/list]
I fully know custom surface types will not be added, I can see how the game is coded and why this would not be a worthwhile change. Can we settle for allowing a 2, 3, 4 suffix to be added to the soil types in the TYRE file? Drying line is a must, the added depth of simulation makes this so. Without it, the deformation alone is a novelty. Some way of controlling the deformation and drying rates of each soil type on a per track basis is also highly desirable.
[size=12pt][u][b]Game[/b][/u][/size]
[list][li]Adjust suspension constraints via garage menu[/li]
[list][li]Panhard bar pickup points[/li]
[li]Four bar pickup points on axle/birdcage and chassis[/li][/list]
[li]Proper race formats (Heats, Semis, Final)[/li]
[li]Click and hold for quicker garage adjustments[/li][/list]
Having the game automatically setup the event format would be great, a workable compromise would be to allow the grid to be set via scripting or an in game menu. Adjusting the rear suspension constrains in the garage is a need. Setting min/max and step for each joint (like what is used in the front of the car) and a place the move them in the garage menu is all that is needed.
Thanks for your time, and please, if you have any questions ask away.
[color=pink]7/19/2017 - updates in pink[/color]
3
Suggestions and wishlist / Drying line for soil/sand/gravel
« Message by Phathry25 on April 05, 2016, 04:51:12 PM »Using wetness slider and tires that have more wet grip is a great way to make the tracks more dynamic. The last piece of the puzzle is to have the dirt tracks dry up as you drive on them exactly like the asphalt tracks, at a slower rate though since dirt holds moisture much better. Maybe even adjustable in the THT file for good measure.
4
Suggestions and wishlist / Deformation rate in THT file
« Message by Phathry25 on April 05, 2016, 04:46:14 PM »THT or the other one, whichever makes more sense. For dirt ovals this seems to be necessary to allow the track to develop a groove or rubbered in line at a realistic rate and not have it be two feet deep. Basically the same thing you can do in the player.ini with deformation multiplier, but set in the track files somewhere.
5
Suggestions and wishlist / Default asymmetry
« Message by Phathry25 on April 05, 2016, 04:40:50 PM »Setting in the CFG or INI to make that gosh dang check box in the garage checked by default.
6
Suggestions and wishlist / PaintEd improvements
« Message by Phathry25 on March 23, 2016, 02:06:44 PM »Reload directory button, to make checking skins in game easier.
Remember last folder, so you don't have to browse to your skins folder every dang time.
Ability to select files from different directories, so you can store different rims and other parts in directories and use them without moving them around in Windows.
Remember last folder, so you don't have to browse to your skins folder every dang time.
Ability to select files from different directories, so you can store different rims and other parts in directories and use them without moving them around in Windows.
7
Suggestions and wishlist / Vertical ballast adjustment.
« Message by Phathry25 on February 21, 2016, 06:37:41 PM »In some dirt cars you want to be able to raise and lower your ballast depending on how much you want the car to roll. I've been working on one of those.
8
Suggestions and wishlist / Adjustable bump stop rate
« Message by Phathry25 on February 13, 2016, 07:23:47 PM »Not so much in the setup menu necessarily, but it would be great to be able to set your bump stop rates in the CFG file.
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