My Adventures with Direct Steer w/ Torque

[Klax75]

Disclaimer: I can't ride a motorcycle in real life so some of the descriptions maybe weird. lol

I've been playing GP Bikes daily since I got it about a year ago. I use full manual control, no assist. I'm not the fastest rider, and won't be breaking any speed or lap records but I love playing and racing with everyone. Teaching / Forcing myself to learn to play using manual controls. I decided to try the Direct Steer with Torque feature in GP Bikes. This is Direct Steer, not to be confused with the in game check box for Direct Lean. Which is something completely different. First trying it last last summer, but then I could barely get around with default steering. So I went back to default steering. Two or so months ago, I began looking at it again. After some talks about it on the forum.

As many of your know I am disabled in real life have a bone disease Osteogensis Imperfecta (Brittle Bones), I have Type III of it. Which makes me really small (3 foot 3 inches) in a wheelchair. I have always loved simulation games. Since they give me the the opportunity to do things I can't physically do in real life. I like to try and get as close as a I can do doing things that I can't actually do, one of the reasons I full in love with GP Bikes. A realistic motorcycle simulation I had been waiting for!

There are two different Direct Steer options in GP Bikes, Direct Steer with Torque and Direct Steer without Torque. These can only be turned on if your set them in your rider Profile.in file. (Located in your Documents\Piboso\GP Bikes\profiles\(User Name). I set up a profile for Default Steering and one for Direct Steering with Torque. Then I don't have to keep going back and changing the Profile.ini.

Piboso Direct Steer Forum Page:
http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=28.0

Direct Steer with Torque:

Code Select Expand

[hardcore]
directsteer=1
directsteer_maxtorque=45
directsteer_maxtorque2=0.5


Direct Steer Without Torque:

Code Select Expand

[hardcore]
directsteer=2
directsteer_maxangle=20


With Direct Steer, your virtual rider won't help hold the bike up when you're in a turn. The two different methods for Direct Steering as listed above. I've used both and I found for me personally I like Direct Steer with Torque to be better. Both of them you are responsible for your lean angle. With the Torque version you can use the throttle to help you hold the bike at a lean angle or help you pick up the bike. Without torque applying the throttle does not change or effect lean angle.

When first using Direct Steer either method. The bike will handle much different. Even after over a year of playing and trying to learn Direct Steer it felt like I had never played the simulation before. I was falling over constantly. So I had to "relearn" how the bike will behave. When your spawn in on your bike the handle bars will fall to one side or the other. They won't straighten out until you start moving. This can cause a lot of falling and losing control of the bike. I use manual controls, with manual clutch it took a while to get the bike moving. Unlike Default Steering, Direct Steering your handles bars, you can move when you're doing a wheelie. Also your lean angle can be changed while on one wheel.

Throttle control becomes more important with Direct Steer with Torque, then Default Steering. With Default Steering I can mash down the throttle then let it go completely in a turn. While holding the left stick completely left or right. And not worry to much about falling over. With Direct Steer with Torque it works differently. I had to learn to hold the throttle at different positions to help me keep the bike up. If I am holding to much throttle then I will understeer. To little throttle then I run the risk of falling over. Falling over is extremely easy in Direct Steering with Torque. As I mentioned the virtual rider doesn't help hold the bike. If you turn in on a corner and keep turning there is nothing stopping you from falling over.

Turning is also different then with Default Steering. Default Steering if I want to make a right turn I push my left stick on my controller to the right, and keep pushing it to the right for the duration of the turn. With Direct Steer with Torque it is a different experience. If I want to make a right turn, I will push my left stick to the right to get my lean angle and begin my turn. Then I have push my left stick to the left while in the middle of the turn to hold the bike at my lean angle. You have to opposite steer the bike while in a turn to hold lean angle. While also using the throttle to help keep the bike from falling over. The throttle while slow the bike from falling over, as you also opposite steer the handle bars. And throttle while help you change lean angles from side to side quicker.

The check box for Direct Lean doesn't seem to affect the bike much or at all if you have it on or off.

One thing I noticed is with Direct Steer with Torque my bike was much slower then default steering when leaning left or right. I found if I changed the torque value slightly the response of the bike when changing the lean angle was faster. It also depends on the bike you are using and the power of the engine. The 125cc bike will lean side to side faster then the 1000cc bike. Which I figure has something to do with the weight of the bike.

My Direct Steer with Torque setting:

Code Select Expand

[hardcore]
directsteer=1
directsteer_maxtorque=45
directsteer_maxtorque2=0.5


I changed it from 30 to 45, the response of leaning the bike was faster. Right now for me 45 seems good, I may try 50-55 again but higher level made it respond to fast and made it harder to control.

I use manual rider movements and I have found that GP Bikes with Direct Steer with Torque the virtual rider will not move if you have Auto rider movements set to left and right. With auto on the rider will not hang off the bike and you can't make the turns very well or at all. To use Direct Steer with Torque you need to at least have Auto Rider movements left and right off, and manually move the rider left or right. To get the rider to hang off the bike.

There is also some animation bugs with Direct Steer with Torque. Your rider doesn't tilt his head when in a turn and looks a little stiff.

With Direct Steer with Torque there is no set limit for lean angle the bike will hit. There has been times I've got the bike down to 59-61 degrees and still was able to stand the bike back up and not crash. This for me is fun knowing I made the turn and was able to come out of it. It's like I set a world record. lol It really does come down to the player to how far they can get the bike lean down with out crashing. Anything over 62 degrees the bike will fall regardless of how well you turn or your throttle control.

I only rider in helmet view so a down side to Direct Lean with Torque is it is very hard to tell my lean angle. It's more me remembering this is what XX degrees looks like when I make a turn. Since there is no visual or audio feedback of my knee hitting the ground. As odd as it sound after a while you do start to "feel" the bike, and can visually tell what the limits are, and use the throttle to help keep you from crashing.

When going slow in hair pin turns. With Direct Steer with Torque I did notice the bike wanted to pick it self up more. Which makes very sharp turns a little easier. Once you start going faster then 40-45 mph this doesn't happen anymore.

As I mentioned earlier you still have control over your handle bars, lean angle when doing a wheelie so this can be tricky. I've also noticed the back end of the bike will kick out easier and more often when you give it throttle. Which can also work to your advantage when going in to a turn if you do it right. Since you can kick the back end out to help you steer in to the turn.

I found the smaller bikes were a little harder to ride since they don't have the power to help you pick the bike up or hold your lean angle.

I have been practicing with twisty tracks so I can learn how to go from one type of turn to another.

For me with Direct Steer with Torque there is a lot more going on. A lot more concentration on my part. I've been able to do just about every type of corner, it's just putting them together in to one lap is the hard part since so much is going on. Using 4 fingers, 2 thumbs, opposite steering, throttle control. Not to mention I stink at setting up a bike. lol The more I practice the more natural it is feeling using Direct Steer with Torque. It's weird when going back to Default Steering it almost feels like I have training wheels on and the bike won't fall down. lol It will be a long time before I can race using this control method. Minus the hundreds of falls over and over. I'm having a lot of fun learning how to use Direct Steer with Torque.


Practicing Direct Steer with Torque:
http://www.youtube.com/v/W1MKr13exfc

My Controller Setup: XBox360 Wired Controller.

I have slight deadzone's set for Clutch and Rear Brake so I don't hit them by mistake if I move forward or back when steering.

9-19-14 Update: Changed the DST code to reflect what I am currently using.

[nuovaic]

Wow. I am impressed that you are giving it a go, it does sound extremely hard!
It most definitely is something that will need a LOT of time and perserverance.
A bit like driving an rc bike without bars, not impossible, but not really raceable.
Good luck anyway!

[Hawk]

Very nice post indeed Klax!

This should really help in my quest to become a fully manual rider in GP BIkes(Once the 125cc Redbull Rookies Champs is finished of course. Hehe )

Catch ya later Klax, for the Redbull Race tonight. 

[Klax75]

Wow. I am impressed that you are giving it a go, it does sound extremely hard!
It most definitely is something that will need a LOT of time and perserverance.
A bit like driving an rc bike without bars, not impossible, but not really raceable.
Good luck anyway!

A lot of the Hong Kong RC Motorcycle races don't use bars/wires on the sides of the bikes when racing. I'm not from Hong Kong but have watched there races for years.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1Fi9mVcSBCj41GFxyGiBXQ

[nuovaic]

Yes but they are the more stable and slower 1/8 Kyoshos with limited lean, I was really meaning the much faster 1/5, with working lean angles down to 70 degrees.
We once had a 'barless' race at our Skipton track many years ago, the top UK driver managed 9 laps at a steady pace, everyone else crashed out in the first or second lap!

[HornetMaX]

Having tried in the past to use direct steer (maybe 1 hour) I tell you this: truly impressive Klax !

Notice that if you want to be 100% as close to real as possible, you have to invert the force: to turn right, you should have to first move your stick left to initiate the leaning and then to the right to keep the lean at the desired angle. But as I have no doubt that you could do this after a little extra time, feel free to keep your settings, I won't come and say they are "only" 99.99% real.

Concerning RC bikes: not having the bars is hard, but it does not come close to what Klax is doing. If you wanted to "do the same" on an rc bike you should remove the spring/dampers on your steering and also alter the front geometry (RC bikes has a negative front fork offset, giving them a stabilizing "cartwheel" effect that helps them go straight and pick up the bike with throttle).

MaX.

[nuovaic]

No, there is no direct comparison to be made between any rc bike and GP Bikes. You cannot 'do the same'!
What I was comparing is the lack of lean limiter with an rc bike without bars and Direct steer on GP bikes. Same edgy, difficult feeling, not knowing where the lean limit is and a major sense of achievement getting around a corner without help. That's what I felt in Klax's video.

I tried it at Cleveland for half an hour, couldn't string 2 corners together without crashing. Then played with the torque settings until it felt just manageable. and finally managed a lap, but cornering has to be dead slow and the slow corners feel like your driving on eggshells.
I think Smoothing and deadzone adjustment helps a little, I ended with 100 smooth on both, 20 deadzone 0 linearity.  Max torque 22 maxtorque2 1.2 (joystick)

[Klax75]

I'm starting to like Direct Steer w/ Torque better then Default Steer. Something about it, even though putting laps together.

For me with simulations, I think you should have to learn to play them. Not just pick them up and be able to use them after a week.

MaX your telemetry software your working on. Can it show lean angle? Reason is I tried your HUD addon, but I end up paying to much attention to the lean angle graphic. And not enough attention to the actual track. lol. So I keep trying to get lower. So I shut it off, I am still able to get 59-61 lean angle. But it would be helpful being able to look back at the telemetry data.

[HornetMaX]

MaX your telemetry software your working on. Can it show lean angle? Reason is I tried your HUD addon, but I end up paying to much attention to the lean angle graphic. And not enough attention to the actual track. lol. So I keep trying to get lower. So I shut it off, I am still able to get 59-61 lean angle. But it would be helpful being able to look back at the telemetry data.

Same for me: every time I try to pay attention to the suspensions in the HUD, I end up crashing cause I lose sight of the track

Yes, the telemetry thing (BTW, it's almost ready !!) will allow you to see the evolution of all the bike parameters (the ones GPB exposes), including lean angle.

MaX.

[Hawk]

@Max: Great to hear your Telemetry Data Monitor is almost ready.... Will be very useful indeed! 

[Klax75]

I just did two consecutive laps around Caldwell Park, using the CBR 600 Was pretty fun, first lap was 1:48, second 1:45. Laps are down on default steering, but I know with more practice with DST I can improve this a lot. Since my best lap didn't have my some of my best sector times in it, or the best top speeds.


Two laps around Caldwell Park:
http://www.youtube.com/v/swxeRh8i1tQ

On a side note. I was also practicing with C21's version of the CBR1000's. Oddly I found the physic's easier to use with Direct Steer, then with the default physics. C21's the gyroscopic effects were a lot stronger and the bike wanted to spring up on it's own a lot more especially at low speeds.

[girlracerTracey]

Everything considered Klax that's pretty impressive to say the least!

I tried this over the weekend and I was absolutely hopeless..

Interesting thread to read this one.  Thanks for posting all this.

grT

[Klax75]

Everything considered Klax that's pretty impressive to say the least!

I tried this over the weekend and I was absolutely hopeless..

Interesting thread to read this one.  Thanks for posting all this.

grT

Thank you!

[BOBR6 84]

Great reading!!

Im really interested in trying this out! Looks great in your video's Klax.. Like Max said if you can set the steering input to move the handlebars left initially before a right turn, or tipping into a right turn.. That would simulate counter steering!
Direct steer with torque looks/sounds ridiculously hard to do lol.
Hats off for sticking with it!

Il have to play around with this 
I cant comment yet because I havnt tried it but in my head it makes sense to copy the counter steering technique..

It also sounds perfect for a handlebar setup.. Seen a few people using them on youtube.. Not really my thing but with direct steer with torque it could make alot of sense..

[HornetMaX]

It also sounds perfect for a handlebar setup.. Seen a few people using them on youtube.. Not really my thing but with direct steer with torque it could make alot of sense..

With a handlebar setup (assuming it has force feedback), the other method (the one Klax calls "Direct Steer without torque") should be better.
In this 2nd method, you dictate the target handlebar angle (not the torque, as in Direct Steer 1st method, nor the bike lean angle, as in the usual control method without direct steer).
Despite it having some "virtual rider" in between (it will translate your target handlebar angle into a torque signal), it should feel more natural and of course it will still allow (actually require) you to countersteer.

Klax is using direct steer on a joypad, so no force fedback.

MaX.