I have eliminated front end wobble 80%

[rodney007]

Through hours of testing I have found how to basically completely reduce any front end wobble on 5B, and also simulate
corner exit throttle steering by reversing the effect of throttle to the suspension. Currently application of throttle
widens your line (suspension extends instead of contract) meaning you cant use the friction of the tyre to grap and push you around which is what you do in real life.

The only problem is -> CORES CRASHING as a result sometimes if you crash the bike

This is partly why I am hesitating to release my TZ750 because my physics are completely unique and feel very nice but the game crashes due to CORE fail.

FML

[capeta]

I 'll be pleasant to beta test you're physic cause i haven't so much core...
Have played a little too with the physic and  reduced the wobble a little (not 80%)
I think you have seen this but in case of Mr Piboso give good directions here:
http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=1313.msg17104#msg17104

[BOBR6 84]

Through hours of testing I have found how to basically completely reduce any front end wobble on 5B, and also simulate
corner exit throttle steering by reversing the effect of throttle to the suspension. Currently application of throttle
widens your line (suspension extends instead of contract) meaning you cant use the friction of the tyre to grap and push you around which is what you do in real life.

The only problem is -> CORES CRASHING as a result sometimes if you crash the bike

This is partly why I am hesitating to release my TZ750 because my physics are completely unique and feel very nice but the game crashes due to CORE fail.

FML

hey rodney..

do you mean the rear shock extends instead of compressing when accelerating?

if that is what you mean.. that explains what i see when i watch a replay.. if i use rear facing camera you can see the gap between the tail unit and the tyre increase when accelerating but the shock should compress and the gap should decrease..

right??

[FastFreddy]

Through hours of testing I have found how to basically completely reduce any front end wobble on 5B, and also simulate
corner exit throttle steering by reversing the effect of throttle to the suspension. Currently application of throttle
widens your line (suspension extends instead of contract) meaning you cant use the friction of the tyre to grap and push you around which is what you do in real life.

The only problem is -> CORES CRASHING as a result sometimes if you crash the bike

This is partly why I am hesitating to release my TZ750 because my physics are completely unique and feel very nice but the game crashes due to CORE fail.

FML

hey rodney..

do you mean the rear shock extends instead of compressing when accelerating?

if that is what you mean.. that explains what i see when i watch a replay.. if i use rear facing camera you can see the gap between the tail unit and the tyre increase when accelerating but the shock should compress and the gap should decrease..

right??

is not so simple, depends on the geometry of the bike (forks, chain pull, etc..), some bikes extend some bikes compress. However, sorry but i don't think that Mr.Rodney has to solve the problems on the front but Piboso in the next beta, and as we read already knows how to work.

[rodney007]

Through hours of testing I have found how to basically completely reduce any front end wobble on 5B, and also simulate
corner exit throttle steering by reversing the effect of throttle to the suspension. Currently application of throttle
widens your line (suspension extends instead of contract) meaning you cant use the friction of the tyre to grap and push you around which is what you do in real life.

The only problem is -> CORES CRASHING as a result sometimes if you crash the bike

This is partly why I am hesitating to release my TZ750 because my physics are completely unique and feel very nice but the game crashes due to CORE fail.

FML

hey rodney..

do you mean the rear shock extends instead of compressing when accelerating?

if that is what you mean.. that explains what i see when i watch a replay.. if i use rear facing camera you can see the gap between the tail unit and the tyre increase when accelerating but the shock should compress and the gap should decrease..

right??

Yes, the gap opens rather than squeeze and your exit line widens meaning you have to wait until you are deeper into the corner, in real life (i race bikes) you get on the throttle as early as possible and it smashes the tire into the ground and allows you to go around the corner quick and keep a tighter line. This had always frustrated me because the rear tyre in all GP bikes versions was never being used enough on exit.

Now you see and instant compression and slight line tightening - as a result tires wear faster but feels very rewarding gassing out of corners. I have had another racer in GP bikes test it and he said it felt amazing.

see here how the throttle changes the corner line:

http://youtu.be/AiAR-NaOcto

See at: 1:33, 1:52 are good examples.

[capeta]

Can you make a little video on gpbikes with you're physics?

[HornetMaX]

I agree with what FastFreddie said: in general, it depends. There's a chapter in the book "Motorcycle Dynamics" (Cossalter) that explains this in detail (and it's not hard to understand).

On race bikes (at least very powerful ones) I even think that most of the time the rear extends when opening the throttle as if it extends it means it counters the tendency to wheelie (while if it compress it will help it).

Last remark: it is already possible in GPB to alter the swingarm pivot position (I mean editing the bike.cfg file). This will change the bike's squat ratio and hence the fact the the rear compress or extends when accelerating. It's even available in the garage, but for the standard bikes (125, 500, 990) changing it has no effect as the min and max swingarm pivot position are set to the same point (so whichever value you set in the garage 0,1,2 will lead to the same swingarm joint position).

If you want to play with it, allow the swingarm pivot position to vary vertically: you should see an effect on the rear suspension (i.e. compressing/extending when accelerating) and on the tendency to wheelie. Higher swingarm pivot = less tendency to squat. Chnages should be of the order of a few mm.

If you google "motorbike squat ratio" you can find a lot of easy explanations on the web, e.g.:

http://www.insidemotorcycles.com/component/k2/item/1576-trevitt%E2%80%99s-blog-anti-squat-and-thrust.html?tmpl=component&print=1
http://www.sportrider.com/more-fun-geometry/?image=0

In the 1st link, there's an incredible comment at the end:

Anti-squat is so important on a powerful bike that teams at the World Superbike and MotoGP level will change primary gearing inside the engine rather than final gearing for fear of upsetting that delicate balance.

MaX.

[rodney007]

I agree with what FastFreddie said: in general, it depends. There's a chapter in the book "Motorcycle Dynamics" (Cossalter) that explains this in detail (and it's not hard to understand).

On race bikes (at least very powerful ones) I even think that most of the time the rear extends when opening the throttle as if it extends it means it counters the tendency to wheelie (while if it compress it will help it).

Last remark: it is already possible in GPB to alter the swingarm pivot position (I mean editing the bike.cfg file). This will change the bike's squat ratio and hence the fact the the rear compress or extends when accelerating. It's even available in the garage, but for the standard bikes (125, 500, 990) changing it has no effect as the min and max swingarm pivot position are set to the same point (so whichever value you set in the garage 0,1,2 will lead to the same swingarm joint position).

If you want to play with it, allow the swingarm pivot position to vary vertically: you should see an effect on the rear suspension (i.e. compressing/extending when accelerating) and on the tendency to wheelie. Higher swingarm pivot = less tendency to squat. Chnages should be of the order of a few mm.

If you google "motorbike squat ratio" you can find a lot of easy explanations on the web, e.g.:

http://www.insidemotorcycles.com/component/k2/item/1576-trevitt%E2%80%99s-blog-anti-squat-and-thrust.html?tmpl=component&print=1
http://www.sportrider.com/more-fun-geometry/?image=0

In the 1st link, there's an incredible comment at the end:

Anti-squat is so important on a powerful bike that teams at the World Superbike and MotoGP level will change primary gearing inside the engine rather than final gearing for fear of upsetting that delicate balance.

MaX.

Sorry to burst your bubble but the squat that I'm talking about (in GPB) has nothing to do with adjusting the suspension - its in the tire file.

[HornetMaX]

Sorry to burst your bubble but the squat that I'm talking about (in GPB) has nothing to do with adjusting the suspension - its in the tire file.

The you didn't explain yourself correctly:

Through hours of testing I have found how to basically completely reduce any front end wobble on 5B, and also simulate
corner exit throttle steering by reversing the effect of throttle to the suspension. Currently application of throttle
widens your line (suspension extends instead of contract) meaning you cant use the friction of the tyre to grap and push you around which is what you do in real life.

If you can explain what you did modify in the .tire file then we can maybe understand.

MaX.

[rodney007]

Sorry to burst your bubble but the squat that I'm talking about (in GPB) has nothing to do with adjusting the suspension - its in the tire file.

The you didn't explain yourself correctly:

Through hours of testing I have found how to basically completely reduce any front end wobble on 5B, and also simulate
corner exit throttle steering by reversing the effect of throttle to the suspension. Currently application of throttle
widens your line (suspension extends instead of contract) meaning you cant use the friction of the tyre to grap and push you around which is what you do in real life.

If you can explain what you did modify in the .tire file then we can maybe understand.

MaX.

in the rear tire file find this line:

p_Cy2  =

This is very sensitive... start here:

p_Cy2 = 0.40000

Then if your loosing too much grip find these lines:

r_By1 =
r_By2 =

Bit down on By1, bit up on By2:

r_By1 = 6.000000
r_By2 = 5.000000

If your going to change this and try, I suggest you prepare a file, do 3 laps - swap the file and try immediately after.
Takes getting used to but feels good. If you find raising the bike slightly unstable you can increase the "dampening rate" in the steering (bike.cfg)

This part ^^^ is for the squat, for the wobble open the bike .cfg file, scroll down to steering and adjust to this:

   Damper = 4.7
   DamperPower = 3

   spg0 = -320
   spg1 = -3
   sdg0 = -80
   sdg1 = 0.5
   sig0 = 0
   sig1 = 0

   KYaw = 30
   
   KDamping0 = 0
   KDamping1 = 0.4[/color][/b]

Take close note when on the down hill hairpin on Victoria circuit and see if you get less wobble

[BOBR6 84]

well this is just another head pickle..

i see the point of both sides so to speak.

iv felt so far on gpbikes that in general the bikes understeer a tad too much..
feels more like the front end doesnt track properly to me though (like the bike pushes at an angle through the corner).

on my race bike.. (stock R6) when accelerating hard through or out of a corner it deffinately squats at the rear and helps me turn through it on the gas!

again though this is gpbikes.. based on 2003 motogp!

not a club racing R6 lol

[JJS209]

on my race bike.. (stock R6) when accelerating hard through or out of a corner it deffinately squats at the rear and helps me turn through it on the gas!

same here

[HornetMaX]

@rodney007: just to be sure, do you actually know what the parameters you've modified are ?

Changing the bike squatting behavior changing what you have changed sounds very suspect.

The part relative to the wobble makes more sense, but I only know what Damper and DamperPower are, the rest is relative to the virtual rider and I don't think Piboso as ever explained what they do exactly.

@BOBR6 84: it can be that your stock R6 squats accelerating hard. As I said, big power race bikes (MotoGP, SBK) tends to avoid that because given their power, their #1 difficulty is to keep the nose down.

MaX.

[Stout Johnson]

iv felt so far on gpbikes that in general the bikes understeer a tad too much..
feels more like the front end doesnt track properly to me though (like the bike pushes at an angle through the corner).

Thank you sir! I have always felt that way and even tried to make a case that this is a bug (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=665.msg6249#msg6249), but obviously not many seemed to not see a problem there (or maybe didn't understand what I meant). I still see this problem, mostly when accelerating on high lean angles...

[BOBR6 84]

Right! Fast corners.. Its hi-lighted mainly on up and downhill turns too..

True that its probably a track surface problem but for me I see this front end ''issue'' everywhere to a degree..