I have eliminated front end wobble 80%

[capeta]

Rodney i have tried it.
It feel nice and has some new problems too like when braking hard and go in undo position the bike wooble too much and fall

Other thant that i like it and have core exe only if i fall.
Maybe have you put a false value in sphere collision?

And you right try the positive and negative value are a good way to fully understand/test the gpb physic it's not reality it's a game in beta phase so all the process are good keep up you' re works thx for the "beta" testing

And Max has good arguments even if is really to much "ingenior" oriented in his answer ;he try to help you.
The others in this tread are just too lazy.Grt have right.

I need to test a little more for to have really a precise idea...

[Hawk]

Um...you crack me up MaX, they did warn me about you - I tried answering your questions but you seem to .... I
am just going to leave it I am too busy to get caught up in something with you no offense.

None taken.

All my willingness to explain to people on this forum why things work the way they work is gone. From now on I'll just warn when somebody says something very wrong (e.g. "all the bikes squat at acceleration"), without bothering to explain. The ones who care to know why could always reach me by PM.

MaX.

Hi Max.

I've always found your willingness to work on your plugins, help and explain subjects in detail very informative, educational and helpful. It would be a real shame if you stopped doing what you do here on the forum; I for one would be very much poorer if you stopped.

This is obviously just a clash of personalities, opinions and points of view which you always get on forums at some stages(as I've known in the past, and I'm sure you know too). Just don't let this event stop you from informing us all of how things work. You've always done a great job in the past and I hope long may it continue! 

Hawk.

[capeta]

Hawk just say it better than my poor English so keep it up ^^

[HornetMaX]

Guys there's no issue, I'll still explain to the ones who want to listen and understand. I'll just stop trying to explain things to the ones that don't want to even try to understand.

@rodney007: really, I do appreciate your work on bikes and even your tests on physics (and btw congrats for your real life riding skills). It's just that facing hundreds of parameters, blindly trying to change some of them with no idea about what they are supposed to do is surely not a reasonable way to go (unless it's really the only doable thing).

MaX.

[rodney007]

MaX, maybe this will help you understand where I am coming from:

Your question:

If you can explain what you did modify in the .tire file then we can maybe understand.

My Answer:

in the rear tire file find this line:

p_Cy2  =

This is very sensitive... start here:

p_Cy2 = 0.40000........

You:

click on the link and search for the paragraph "Does the rear actually RISE under acceleration?": http://www.promecha.com.au/myths_misconceptions.htm

Me:

In-terms of your research. Sure it makes complete sense - though the games result on suspension will not equal "real lifes" effect on the line radius.

You:

but in that specific case I'm not gonna push it any further as rodney007 (despite creating great 3d models and spending a lot of time on this physics tests, which is great) won't listen to some basic remarks. Fine to me.

You:

as rodney007 doesn't seem to care (which is his right, no problem with that).

MaX... please I don't have time for this - I have answered your questions and have tried to be civil... take a chill pill

[rodney007]

Guys there's no issue, I'll still explain to the ones who want to listen and understand. I'll just stop trying to explain things to the ones that don't want to even try to understand.

@rodney007: really, I do appreciate your work on bikes and even your tests on physics (and btw congrats for your real life riding skills). It's just that facing hundreds of parameters, blindly trying to change some of them with no idea about what they are supposed to do is surely not a reasonable way to go (unless it's really the only doable thing).

MaX.

I changed each line and tested them... I made notes on different parameters. I specifically was looking for on-throttle suspension compression. Based on
the Beta 500GP physics test thread in regards to throttle steering.

I almost fell off my chair when I found what Cy2 does in the tire file! I could feel it instantly
and could not stop riding the bike! For me this is what GP-bikes was missing. When I was racing competitively I
read a fantastic book called "a twist of the wrist" which is talks so much about rear suspension compression and how
it makes your rear tIre work and how much grip your tire can give.

At first I knew I found it when I increased it from 0.60000 to 1.0000 the rear suspension extended so much
that the bike was going so wide on corner exit - at this moment I knew that if I lowered it I would have the opposite effect.

0.6000 is right on the neutral range yet needs to be lower to offer a slight compression and tighten your line *slightly* when working
your rear tire which is what happens with racing bikes. It seems to affect only when in leaning angles... to low of a setting and the bike slides too much.

There other two lines effected the wheel grip from spinning - i.e you can full throttle anywhere and it wont spin the tire. Combining CY2 on-throttle compression
and the other two counteracted the rear wheel spinning to much and gave me the desired effect. This is the logic.

In regards to the wobble - I figured by increasing the steering dampening settings it may defuse it slightly and it did. I know its not relative but
this is what I did on my race bike  so my front end was more stable accelerating out from corners.

[girlracerTracey]

read a fantastic book called "a twist of the wrist"

I have the exact same book inherited from my father. Also "Twist of the Wrist 2" amongst many others..

It's still very much a worthy read imo.

grT

[EdouardB]

This "Twist of the Wrist" thing sometimes annoys me to be honest.
No doubt Keith Code is probably a good instructor, and his book is probably good (I haven't read it yet), but by no means is he the only good instructor and also there are some much better racers that provide instruction as well.

I'm not talking about what you and rodney are saying (you guys are probably right), it's just that I felt like expressing what I feel about the cult-like attitude of some riders (not you) with the Keith Code thing.
I'm really reluctant to learn things from someone who has not been part of the very best riders of the world.

I think having a good weekend of riding school with a former GP500 racer is probably better than going to his Superbike School.

I've been lucky enough to share track time (not at the same pace!) with former world GP racers at classic events and they have something I've never seen in any other riders. It's just a different class, a different level of riding, even compared to a national Superbike champion or world endurance champion. There is so much to learn from them.
Keith Code is not a world GP racer so if I were given choice between him and Freddie Spencer for example, I would go to Freddie Spencer without hesitation. I know some people who would do differently

Sorry for the off topic. Sorry

[girlracerTracey]

This "Twist of the Wrist" thing sometimes annoys me to be honest.
No doubt Keith Code is probably a good instructor, and his book is probably good (I haven't read it yet), but by no means is he the only good instructor and also there are some much better racers that provide instruction as well.

I'm not talking about what you and rodney are saying (you guys are probably right), it's just that I felt like expressing what I feel about the cult-like attitude of some riders (not you) with the Keith Code thing.
I'm really reluctant to learn things from someone who has not been part of the very best riders of the world.

I think having a good weekend of riding school with a former GP500 racer is probably better than going to his Superbike School.

I've been lucky enough to share track time (not at the same pace!) with former world GP racers at classic events and they have something I've never seen in any other riders. It's just a different class, a different level of riding, even compared to a national Superbike champion or world endurance champion. There is so much to learn from them.
Keith Code is not a world GP racer so if I were given choice between him and Freddie Spencer for example, I would go to Freddie Spencer without hesitation. I know some people who would do differently

Sorry for the off topic. Sorry

Interestingly Keith Code and Freddie Spencer disagree subtly on certain aspects of motorcycle racing physics and theory. Including that of rear wheel steering and two wheel drifting..
Essentially I think I agree with you Edouard. I also think Keith Code's counter steering video is a bit too self assuming in its theory in some ways.. But that's another story!

grT

[HornetMaX]

The book is OK, now a bit outdated and a few parts are controversial (read it a few years ago, not even sure I still have it).

However, most of the information it has is correct and if half the riders were half aware of half of the book content, it would already be a big improvement.

One thing I've liked about it is the idea of busting some of the myths hanging around.

I can't judge how good an instructor he is, but I have to admit his work has provided practical, useful info to many riders (and I'm sure it cleared up some ideas even for some very experienced riders).

MaX.

[EdouardB]

Like I said, the book is probably good But I like how GP riders think "outside the box" in a lot of ways and have techniques that you would never think of.

A good example is when I went to riding school with Didier de Radigues (highly recommend if you're in France or Belgium) and he explained to us how to test the grip on the wet (the track was really wet) and how to manage the power on the bike.
Your instinct would tell you to ride at a slightly lower RPM than on the dry, that way you're not surprised by the power, right?
Well basically he told us to keep riding at high RPM all the time (even higher than on the dry sometimes), never at low RPM, that way the only changes in power delivery comes from the throttle(which is predictable) and not from the power curve (less predictable).

This kind of stuff is not natural at first but once you do it, it makes complete sense.

I could go on and on about examples like this but really, these guys' minds work in a special way.

[RBp]

yeah Edouard, it's the torgue that kills you in the wet not the power, keep it above or well below for wet weather.

[BOBR6 84]

Simon crafer.. he's the man! 

explains his techniques very well for people like me..

in corners surely the rear has to squat even if just slightly, to load up the rear for grip..

i can see the logic in the rear rising on the straights.. infact i think that happens on my bike on the straights in the higher gears.. to a degree.

it would make more sense to me if you said the swingarm pivot counteracts the bike squatting.. gp bikes are very stiff but have a very long wheelbase, so that would make sense to me.

[filipw2]

http://youtu.be/ndU65pUKn9k?t=7m20s

[BOBR6 84]

Like I said, the book is probably good But I like how GP riders think "outside the box" in a lot of ways and have techniques that you would never think of.

A good example is when I went to riding school with Didier de Radigues (highly recommend if you're in France or Belgium) and he explained to us how to test the grip on the wet (the track was really wet) and how to manage the power on the bike.
Your instinct would tell you to ride at a slightly lower RPM than on the dry, that way you're not surprised by the power, right?
Well basically he told us to keep riding at high RPM all the time (even higher than on the dry sometimes), never at low RPM, that way the only changes in power delivery comes from the throttle(which is predictable) and not from the power curve (less predictable).

This kind of stuff is not natural at first but once you do it, it makes complete sense.

I could go on and on about examples like this but really, these guys' minds work in a special way.

Exactly.. lots of crazy tips from riders!

In the wet I go a tooth higher for more accelleration!

Purely because you cannot be as hard on the throttle when the bike is leant over.. So as soon as I get the bike up out of the turn I need the extra acceleration.

Other tips.. At darley moor circuit there is a fast chicane and straight after it a sharp left hand bend going into a hairpin!

Some people exit the chicane and roll off the throttle for the left hander and still struggle to stop for the hairpin.

Best way is to apply some throttle going around left turn.. Even though you go a little faster, when you come to brake.. You have more travel left on front suspension. So I can enter faster and brake later with no probs..