The STK bikes wobble too much

[grimm]

The main problem is that many don't seem to understand that, on real race bikes, the throttle is NOT an on/off switch, despite the electronics.
It is also important to note that real race bikes, at the limit, are not perfect.

Over the years I've ridden a little bit of everything and I'm still yet to find a bike that is dead stable when being pushed. I'm unsure what the community expects of a 160+hp liter bike when going wide open on the throttle and steering back and forth. I've never once been wide open on a high power bike and didn't have some instability or some weave or wobble. The sim as it sits is pretty realistic and without the wobbles and bike chassis feedback I'm unsure it would be any different than all the other bike titles around the consoles and PC.

I recall playing Tourist Trophy back when it was new, and any of the 1000's would head shake violently under full throttle acceleration out of a corner or over bumps on the track, just that the physics "dumbed down" the rear end following what the front end was doing. A few years later when I discovered TT Superbikes and the bikes went into violent upset wobbles given half a chance to do so, I was floored by the realism of having to decide where, and how hard to push the bike.

GP Bikes represents the instability and difficulty of handling a real bike at the limit. I'm unsure how many people complaining about the behavior have actually gone out and pushed a liter bike hard enough to find the instability in them. Thrashing the controls in an attempt at a fast lap or high speed corner exit is as real as I can see it getting on GP Bikes, just because "real data" is used doesn't mean the underlying sim is the problem, I think it is the way the bikes are ridden that causes issues as I've yet to find a bike that wobbles uncontrollably.



My main issue with the STK set is the power, just like real life they are so incredibly over the top powerful that almost anything I do results in a crash. From my 900RR to a borrowed K7 GSXR1000 I've got about as much skill handling the limit of those bikes in real life as I do on GP Bikes. I think it's the rider and not the bike that is causing the problems here.

[Jose Reina]

The main problem is that many don't seem to understand that, on real race bikes, the throttle is NOT an on/off switch, despite the electronics.
It is also important to note that real race bikes, at the limit, are not perfect.

True, but where my bike competition here ?, because what most resembles something real is a pad or G25 ... I doubt anyone has a bike at home connected to the PC to see the "reality" of a motorcycle competition.
A real bike pushed to its limits, moves unless either motorbikes Gpb to 1/4 throttle ...

In short ... Real Moto:
Sensitivity in all aspects
Touch on the accelerator
Touch in brake and hardness of it if you want to stop more or less
Pilot weight and its distribution to stabilize the bike.
Feeling of grip at the front and rear wheel.
Many more factors ...

At home:
Logitech Pad to rotate, raise / lower speed, inclination of the pilot.
Logitech G25 pedals for accelerator, brake and clutch in.
Touch in acceleration 0, do not feel the bike when I accelerate.
Touch in brake 0, do not feel the brake when I accelerate, nor is hard to stop or so.
With my body I can not stabilize the bike.
I have no feeling of grip of the wheels.
Many more factors ...

I think we all know what a real motorcycle, and how it leads. This is a simulator (Best Motorcycle), and simulates a real bike, which should conform to the controls we have. You can take a real bike with a Pad ...

Although I really like the Gpb, I feel it has stability problems, braking and engine retention.

It's just my opinion, I do not speak of the STK 1000, I speak in general Gpb.

Google translator.

[BOBR6 84]

The main problem is that many don't seem to understand that, on real race bikes, the throttle is NOT an on/off switch, despite the electronics.
It is also important to note that real race bikes, at the limit, are not perfect.

I agree.. Throttle control is very important! Beta6 has better throttle response imo.. Now I rarely hit 100% throttle over a lap.. Lean angle rev's change gives nice throttle response when the bike is leant over.

Even on the 500cc you can spin the rear tyre exiting corners!!    especially at Monza where its easier to keep the engine revs close to the power band! 

It does not take much at all to unsettle a motorcycle.. Without a steering damper the bars and whole bike can get out of shape easily. Especially if the front wheel is hovering.. Thats what I mainly see happening in GPB.

Bike setup is hugely important.. for me personally the only thing missing is the adjustable damper lol. Would it work? Who knows...

[HornetMaX]

The main problem is that many don't seem to understand that, on real race bikes, the throttle is NOT an on/off switch, despite the electronics.
It is also important to note that real race bikes, at the limit, are not perfect.

[Not talking specifically about the STK bikes here.]

Hmmm ... I'm really not sure that that justifies entirely what we see and pretty sure it justifies even less the low speed issues: front suddenly slipping away, wobble in low speed corners (not even applying throttle) ...

Now I rarely hit 100% throttle over a lap..

And how does that relates to real life ? I was under the impression (from videos with telemetry overlays) that in motogp they do open up fully quite often ...

MaX.

[EdouardB]

Now I rarely hit 100% throttle over a lap..

And how does that relates to real life ? I was under the impression (from videos with telemetry overlays) that in motogp they do open up fully quite often ...

Well it relates really bad because even at an amateur level we spend a lot of time with the throttle fully open, especially on big racetracks.
When I rode at Spa Francorchamps in July on a 750 I spent so much time wide open just like everyone else, and the bike was really stable.
Every time you exit a corner in real life, you give it full throttle unless there's another turn coming right after it. Even on an R1. The front end does shake when it's hovering above the ground but not to the extent we see in the game - once or twice I've gotten bigger shakes but they were riding mistakes (putting too much stress on my handlebars)

A good friend of mine (who I talked about earlier, races French national superbikes) rides a stock bike at a pace that is about 5 secs away from the end of the MotoGP grid (he rides Le Mans in 1'41, the last motoGP did a 1'36 this year on the dry) and he has none of those issues, the bike is really very stable... Sure it moves a bit but nothing uncontrollable and when you see onboard videos at a similar pace it's very smooth.
But again I'm sure some people with 0 track experience around here will say that's all bullshit

I'm not saying there are absolutely no wobbles, but I'm saying it's not to the point of making you crash like in GP Bikes or to the point of having the front end wobble during the whole straight...

[EdouardB]

Also former GP250, WSS and World Endurance racer Christophe Cogan told me once "if your bike is properly set up, unless the track is really bumpy you don't even need a steering damper anymore".

[EdouardB]

Here's what a STK bike around Le Mans in a 1'38 lap time looks like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDvoQHXAW-M

There is a bit of movement but honestly, is it as much as in gp bikes??? .... Also most of it is either the rear end sliding a bit or the front end hovering above the ground. Even the 125 wobbles in GP Bikes.

[yoshimura]

all this discussion, summarized in this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Stmu0PEUQX4


extreme versatility

(movement extremely important driver,for piboso )

[FastFreddy]

Here's what a STK bike around Le Mans in a 1'38 lap time looks like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDvoQHXAW-M

There is a bit of movement but honestly, is it as much as in gp bikes??? .... Also most of it is either the rear end sliding a bit or the front end hovering above the ground. Even the 125 wobbles in GP Bikes.

Maybe steer physics  needs some improvements!But this comparisons not have much sens for me,is 'like watching a camera-car of a F1-car, from our chairs all seems easy , but it's the skill of the driver who make seem all "easy".We don't know the hard work and the maneuvers they do with steering / throttle / body to keep the bike smooth. However there is not much to complain because I also  see in gpbikes so many drivers very very strong and with smooth ride,
me not for sure    but i still much to learn
yeah 125 is the only bike with serious issues

[BOBR6 84]

Also former GP250, WSS and World Endurance racer Christophe Cogan told me once "if your bike is properly set up, unless the track is really bumpy you don't even need a steering damper anymore".

this is true.. but id prefer to use one! its all personal preference.. i had a cbr600rr 05 with no damper.. it was fine! my R6 with no damper.. not fine lol. my 06 fireblade has an electronic steering damper.. its nice! not intrusive at all.. i think it depends on the bike too..

iv always felt it helps with the overall stability.. anyway, its just an idea to try in gpbikes..

yes, i would like a damper to play around with but also id like to know if the virtual rider is the main suspect or not. before we all go crazy.. 

[EdouardB]

but it's the skill of the driver who make seem all "easy".

Sure, the rider is really good, but what annoys me is that in real life I ride about 10 secs away from the Supersport lap record (so about 12% slower, which is a lot!) and if I ride at the same pace in GP bikes I have lots of wobbles... I have none in real life except when the front is hovering above the ground. And I have no steering damper.

Same thing with the R1 I've tried (without steering damper, again). So for me there is a problem (either the virtual rider input, the mod, or the physics themselves)

[BOBR6 84]

 

Now I rarely hit 100% throttle over a lap..

And how does that relates to real life ? I was under the impression (from videos with telemetry overlays) that in motogp they do open up fully quite often ...

MaX.
[/quote]

yes, that sounds daft! all i meant was in beta6 the throttle is more responsive.. so now as i start to squeeze the throttle trigger when the bike is leant over it feels more instant because the revs are higher (compared to older beta's with no lean angle rev change) im pretty sure i used more throttle in more situations on lets say beta3! purely because it was less responsive.. but, in any case.. you roll the power on. (or squeeze the trigger) its not on/off.

anyway.. im out of this topic, touchy subject... lol

[HornetMaX]

I'm not saying there are absolutely no wobbles, but I'm saying it's not to the point of making you crash like in GP Bikes or to the point of having the front end wobble during the whole straight...

And thanks EdouardB for that confirmation.

Riders using ON/OFF throttle is definitely not the *main* problem.

MaX.

[BOBR6 84]

Agreed 

i will add that.. im not having issues with the STK bikes.. the bmw, kawa etc can all be tamed with bike setup..

GPbikes as a whole.. is nervous on the front end as we ALL know. nobody knows why, and the creator see's no problem with it lol. or that's how it seems...

[Warlock]

I'm not saying there are absolutely no wobbles, but I'm saying it's not to the point of making you crash like in GP Bikes or to the point of having the front end wobble during the whole straight...

And thanks EdouardB for that confirmation.

Riders using ON/OFF throttle is definitely not the *main* problem.

MaX.

Definitely not. I'm quite a smooth rider with the throttle and most times i take corners at low rpm , 1 gear up ,  not on the high power band.