Author Topic: Steering rig start  (Read 8879 times)

HornetMaX

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Re: Steering rig start
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2015, 02:14:35 PM »
I'm more concerned with the "raw" noise (and precision) of the sensor itself. The electronic noise, as you said, can be dealt with most of the time.

MaX.

h106frp

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Re: Steering rig start
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2015, 03:03:28 PM »
The 'raw' noise would most likely be a function of the how noisy the supply voltage is to the transducer, this can be excellent with sensible power supply design, looking at the specs for the budget transducers linked earlier is encouraging;

Brand new pressure transducer. 316 Stainless steel body.
Accuracy: +/-1%FS;
Overload Capacity: 2-4 times;
Working Temperature: -40+120C;
Compensation Temperature: -20+80C;
Protection Class: IP67;
Long-term stability: Less than 0.1%FS/year;
Temperature Effect on Zero: Typical:0.02%FS/C; Maximum:0.05%FS/C;
Temperature Effect on Sensitivity: Typical:0.02%FS/C; Maximum:0.05%FS/C;
Shock Resistance: 1000g;
Anti-Shock: ≤+/-0.01%FS(X,Y,Z axes, 200Hz/g);
Response Time: ≤1ms;

I think the quality of modern low cost electronics and laser trimming of bulk components has gone a long way to offering decent relatively low cost instrumentation.

HornetMaX

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Re: Steering rig start
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2015, 07:22:52 PM »
Looks good indeed. Will have to see how the whole behave though (lever + hydraulics + sensor).

A hell of a project you have there man !

MaX.

h106frp

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Re: Steering rig start
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2015, 08:41:29 PM »
Roll axis added with raked coupling so i now have my 2 axis motion base.


Also added the bracket for my existing instrument cluster. Due to using a narrow yoke and trimmed bars with full size levers this needs to move with the bars to avoid clearance issues.


Motion is very smooth and the rig is well balanced so far. :)

Need to press on with the hydraulic load cylinders now, made a start modifying the cylinders but a bit to do yet.

doubledragoncc

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Re: Steering rig start
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2015, 08:57:32 PM »
Really nice clean work H. Its the most professional system I have seen online at all. Fantastic workmanship.

DD
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h106frp

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Re: Steering rig start
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2015, 09:34:03 PM »
Thanks, the encouragement means a lot coming from the most experienced controller builder on the forum, i just need to stay focused now and get the hydraulics working without drifting off into more features ;D, the cylinders will mount on a small platform attached to the overhanging horizontal shaft and this should help reduce the amount of hose flex i need to accommodate. I think i have a scheme to easily integrate load cell style sensing into the cylinders but it will require machining a few more components.

Took your advice and purchased the Bodnar basic board so this should make the joystick side of the controls a lot simpler to implement.

Need to start looking for a deal on a drive motor for the roll axis, ideally i am looking for a worm drive unit as it should give a much better holding action for this driven axis. Decent units are not cheap though :(

Great fun building though i suspect my heavy engineering background is showing through a bit - you could probably hang a real bike off the front of the rig without too much worry. ::)

Recommend the lightweight pillow block bearings for anyone building , they are cheap, easy to implement , sealed units with grub screws to hold the shaft and run really smooth.

doubledragoncc

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Re: Steering rig start
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2015, 11:28:26 PM »
Well thanks for the compliment too m8. I am waiting for a reply from Leo on bike only BU boards with 2 load cell connections on the board and a few other things.

I OVER OVER engineer everything then reduce it, that way it wont break but gets lighter lol.

DD
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BOBR6 84

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Re: Steering rig start
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2015, 11:58:31 PM »
Looks great! Looking forward to seeing it in action with the rev counter etc good stuff.

Fuel gauge work too?

Edit: oh its a temp gauge lol. Couldnt see on my phone..
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 12:01:06 AM by BOBR6 84 »

h106frp

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Re: Steering rig start
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2015, 12:25:31 AM »
Looks great! Looking forward to seeing it in action with the rev counter etc good stuff.

Fuel gauge work too?

Edit: oh its a temp gauge lol. Couldnt see on my phone..

All the instruments work, it was the first bit that got me started :) Linked before but i suppose it really belongs here now; Its a standard RVF cluster.
<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/fJhcySBcHCk&amp;feature" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/fJhcySBcHCk&amp;feature</a>

It has rev counter,coolant temp, shift light, flashing pit/limiter light and ECU (traction/wheelie) indicator light and gear position.
It would be easiest just to add a small LCD for extra info like fuel or timing info.

The other needle gauge is just testing the bike lean angle signal that will be needed for servo drive.

@DD Be good to have 2 or even 3 load cell amps 2*brake and clutch. I can do the circuitry easy but only onto stripboard so not as compact as Leos designs and he has the USB joystick software side sorted already so saves a lot of work. Be neat if it was a daughter board that could plug straight into the header on the basic board :)
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 12:28:57 AM by h106frp »

doubledragoncc

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Re: Steering rig start
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2015, 01:24:53 AM »
Yeah I did not want a load cell for clutch. He has load cell accelerators for 9.99 that wire between the load cell and the analog inputs on the boards already. I am looking for a board that is complete just for bikes. I also want in on next gen consoles and older ones too. I can do it with my clamp-on steering wheel systems that plug into the pedal ports but I want pure stand alone boards for all, I,m greedy lol.

I'm building controls for a University in Malaysia as they are building a full motion system and want my help so maybe you could help with the dash side of things? I have not done anything with dashes so would be good to chat to you about it some time. Its an important step for me as it is something that will be used for studying motorcycle riding behavior and publish worldwide. I think your dash setup might be interesting for them too if your up for it. Let me know.
Do you Skype? I,m allan.beaton63 if you do.

DD
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 01:29:34 AM by doubledragoncc »
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HornetMaX

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Re: Steering rig start
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2015, 07:40:35 AM »
It has rev counter,coolant temp, shift light, flashing pit/limiter light and ECU (traction/wheelie) indicator light and gear position.
Too bad we don't have the ECU traction/wheelie information in the plugin interface :(

MaX.

h106frp

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Re: Steering rig start
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2015, 08:03:27 AM »
Thanks, wondered why i was struggling to get sense from;

int m_iECUMode;   /* 0 = engine mapping; 1 = traction control; 2 = engine braking */
char m_szEngineMapping[3];
int m_iTractionControl;

Could you explain how these fields are defined as its not very clear? I had initially assumed 'traction control' flag indicated ECU active

LED and software functions are ready for when this gets sorted though, is it on the suggestions list? it would seem important for telemetry analysis to know when the ECU overrides rider input.

Pit lane limiting also seems a bit odd, i cannot quite understand how this has been implemented. I press the in game key but i do not seem to activate the limiter/indicator (normal game controls and on screen dash). Tried in pit lane and on track :(

Rev limiter/shift light work as expected though :)

HornetMaX

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Re: Steering rig start
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2015, 08:12:11 AM »
Thanks, wondered why i was struggling to get sense from;

int m_iECUMode;   /* 0 = engine mapping; 1 = traction control; 2 = engine braking */
char m_szEngineMapping[3];
int m_iTractionControl;

Could you explain how these fields are defined as its not very clear? I had initially assumed 'traction control' flag indicated ECU active
They are essentially information for the dash of the bike, to change the settings of map, TC and EB while riding.
They don't tell you if TC or EB are currently "overriding" the rider input.

LED and software functions are ready for when this gets sorted though, is it on the suggestions list? it would seem important for telemetry analysis to know when the ECU overrides rider input.
I've already requested it, but ...

Pit lane limiting also seems a bit odd, i cannot quite understand how this has been implemented. I press the in game key but i do not seem to activate the limiter/indicator (normal game controls and on screen dash). Tried in pit lane and on track :(
IIRC, it doesn't work in testing sessions, only during race events (practice, quali, warm-up, race). Don't know why though.

MaX.

h106frp

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Re: Steering rig start
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2015, 08:40:03 AM »
Thanks, that clears thing up  :)

@DD
Always be happy to help with some of the concepts for simulating real life signals to drive real instruments, but i suspect that a university rig will be using industrial style control interfaces and the code/controller will be written in something like NI Labview (the most popular system not non programmers ;) ::)) so our GPB experience probably will not help that much.

For a custom rig i also suspect they might go for a very modern CANBUS (serial data) type instrument cluster as this is easily controlled directly from their simulator interface without any need for analogue conversion circuits.

They will probably develop a tool similar to MaX telemetry to study the rider behavior.

doubledragoncc

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Re: Steering rig start
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2015, 04:39:23 PM »
They might be a University but their initial concept was wrong and I am having to set things straight as they are NOT real life riders (BIG MINUS) but they are dedicated. I think that they are on a limited budget so maybe not got so much high end electronics, I am still waiting on that info. I am just proud that they approched me of all the people in the world that must know more than me lol. I just got better BS lol. Anywho, I think its a chance to be involved with a more professional approach team in that its not just for fun, its a serious study and could lead to some really cool concepts with many minds working together.

I will post more once I make all my info in a form I can post here.

This thread is really taking shape in the form of a serious control system for bikes and not just a gaming toy. Hats off to you all for the knowledge and sharing there of. I think we are on the right tracks at last.

DD
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