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Gear shift patterns

Started by h106frp, June 07, 2015, 09:17:58 PM

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h106frp

June 07, 2015, 09:17:58 PM Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 09:33:33 PM by h106frp
Thinking about foot operated gear shift - is it possible to have a 'classic' gear shift pattern?

i.e. 1 up / 5 down or 1 down / 5 up rather than sequential shift

The reason for my question....  Footshift mk1  ;) Toggle switch operates quite nicely but needs more 'clunk' from some sort of mechanical indexer.  :D


Napalm Nick

June 07, 2015, 09:35:06 PM #1 Last Edit: June 07, 2015, 09:40:28 PM by Napalm Nick
If stopped in neutral, you can 1 down to 1st or 1 up to second, 2 up to 3rd etc already, is this not what you mean? ???

Looks a great idea and design! :D
"The post you are writing has been written at least ten times already in the last 15ish years. Its already been reported, suggested, discussed, ignored or archived (but mostly ignored). Why are you doing it again?"

h106frp

Question answered, thanks - i assumed it was sequential by descriptions in setup tabs (gear up/down rather than shift lever up/down) which would have just been confusing with a foot lever, also though it might have option for reverse pattern if it was prototypical  ;).

Inspired to actually wire it up now  :)

Napalm Nick

Go for it! I love mechanical experimentation.  :)
"The post you are writing has been written at least ten times already in the last 15ish years. Its already been reported, suggested, discussed, ignored or archived (but mostly ignored). Why are you doing it again?"

HornetMaX

If you want to reverse (1st down or 1st up), just assign the control differently in gpb. You don't really need the extra switch.

@Nick: some race bikes have it the other way around (1st up, all others down).

MaX.

BOBR6 84

yeah ''Race'' shift is 1 up 5 down.. Although its rider preference.. Max Biaggi used road shift i think?

with race shift its much easier to grab another gear with some lean angle..

EdouardB

June 12, 2015, 01:10:31 PM #6 Last Edit: June 12, 2015, 01:12:08 PM by EdouardB
Yes Bob, Max Biaggi is one of the only riders who use a "road" shift pattern. I don't know of any professionnal racer other than him who rides like that but it probably exists.

Personnally, like you, I prefer 1up 5 down (race shift) by far, it's the standard shifting pattern on race bikes (the TZ250 and TZ350 both have this pattern stock) but on my R6 I use a road shift because it's a bit of a pain in the ass to invert it (the rod(?) goes through the frame on the 2003 model, if you see what I'm talking about). So I keep switching between both but I never made a mistake so far. Fingers crossed :P

doubledragoncc

Dont you just have to shift up your lever for down in the GPB setup, thats what I do for 1 up the rest down?

DD
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BOBR6 84

Quote from: EdouardB on June 12, 2015, 01:10:31 PM
Yes Bob, Max Biaggi is one of the only riders who use a "road" shift pattern. I don't know of any professionnal racer other than him who rides like that but it probably exists.

Personnally, like you, I prefer 1up 5 down (race shift) by far, it's the standard shifting pattern on race bikes (the TZ250 and TZ350 both have this pattern stock) but on my R6 I use a road shift because it's a bit of a pain in the ass to invert it (the rod(?) goes through the frame on the 2003 model, if you see what I'm talking about). So I keep switching between both but I never made a mistake so far. Fingers crossed :P

I got some rearsets where the shift rod goes around the frame. flip the clamp around so it sticks out further and upside down for race shift! 2 min job  ;D ;)

EdouardB

Rearsets are expensive man :P I see what you mean though by flipping the clamp I've looked into it, I just don't think I'm going to buy rearsets for this bike as I'm probably going to sell it to upgrade (when I have the money).

h106frp

Decided the foot controller needs a proper action (clunk) to work right and so got hold of a shift star and pawl from a proper selector to add  to the set up. However having dabbled with manual shift in game (much better) noticed that bike always resets in neutral.

The real shifter has a neutral position and fixed sequence on the star and so this is going to give synchronization problems between controller and game after a crash reset - crash in fifth, game resets too neutral, when i try to get neutral game will shift gears. I guess crash to first then back to neutral but a bit messy. Could do with a 'stays in gear' option really.

Anyone have any idea how i can get around this problem?

Hawk

Quote from: h106frp on June 13, 2015, 09:55:28 PM
Decided the foot controller needs a proper action (clunk) to work right and so got hold of a shift star and pawl from a proper selector to add  to the set up. However having dabbled with manual shift in game (much better) noticed that bike always resets in neutral.

The real shifter has a neutral position and fixed sequence on the star and so this is going to give synchronization problems between controller and game after a crash reset - crash in fifth, game resets too neutral, when i try to get neutral game will shift gears. I guess crash to first then back to neutral but a bit messy. Could do with a 'stays in gear' option really.

Anyone have any idea how i can get around this problem?

Well I'd have thought that with Piboso being a simulation fanatic he would agree that the current reset situation of the gear resetting to neutral after an accident is very arcade game in nature, therefore I would think he'd agree that the gears should stay in the gear it was in when the crash occurred and that it should be the rider who then selects the gear needed to pull away after reset.  ;)

Hawk

Napalm Nick

Pheww tricky one! For the sake of 'feel' you have created a monster! I respect that lol. It seems a solution to drive the mechanics is needed.

So using the game gear output signals, amplified to drive a stepper-motor, connected to the gear change lever to move it depending on the bikes actual gear, with a feedback signal which can be overridden by foot movements...is a solution. Might be easier to buy a real bike though.

Failing that Hawks idea is fine by me.

Seriously at this moment I have no bright ideas. I would like to give your setup a go though, realistic gear change makes me all 'candy-store'. I find it very interesting what you are doing there H. Keep up the interesting work. ;)

"The post you are writing has been written at least ten times already in the last 15ish years. Its already been reported, suggested, discussed, ignored or archived (but mostly ignored). Why are you doing it again?"

HornetMaX

Quote from: Hawk UK on June 13, 2015, 10:20:23 PM
Well I'd have thought that with Piboso being a simulation fanatic he would agree that the current reset situation of the gear resetting to neutral after an accident is very arcade game in nature, therefore I would think he'd agree that the gears should stay in the gear it was in when the crash occurred and that it should be the rider who then selects the gear needed to pull away after reset.  ;)
You can't do that without a button to start the engine (which on some bikes does not exist), otherwise you'd respawn with engine running and in 4th gear (example) and it will just bog.

So you trade some arcadey for some other arcadey.

MaX.


h106frp

June 13, 2015, 11:14:56 PM #14 Last Edit: June 14, 2015, 12:27:48 AM by h106frp
Quote from: Napalm Nick on June 13, 2015, 10:25:10 PM
Pheww tricky one! For the sake of 'feel' you have created a monster! I respect that lol. It seems a solution to drive the mechanics is needed.

So using the game gear output signals, amplified to drive a stepper-motor, connected to the gear change lever to move it depending on the bikes actual gear, with a feedback signal which can be overridden by foot movements...is a solution. Might be easier to buy a real bike though.

Failing that Hawks idea is fine by me.

Seriously at this moment I have no bright ideas. I would like to give your setup a go though, realistic gear change makes me all 'candy-store'. I find it very interesting what you are doing there H. Keep up the interesting work. ;)

Always love a simple solution  lol :D

Shame because the mechanism itself is very simple (and cheap second hand) and gives a short shift throw with a very positive action. Just having a switch and springs feels very odd and 'bouncy'.

Seems i have made myself a problem unless i modify the star to remove the neutral position  :(

Might have to ask nicely for enhanced gear shift support  :) Maybe have clutch in on respawn or similar