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Gear shift patterns

Started by h106frp, June 07, 2015, 09:17:58 PM

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Hawk

Quote from: HornetMaX on June 13, 2015, 11:02:27 PM
Quote from: Hawk UK on June 13, 2015, 10:20:23 PM
Well I'd have thought that with Piboso being a simulation fanatic he would agree that the current reset situation of the gear resetting to neutral after an accident is very arcade game in nature, therefore I would think he'd agree that the gears should stay in the gear it was in when the crash occurred and that it should be the rider who then selects the gear needed to pull away after reset.  ;)
You can't do that without a button to start the engine (which on some bikes does not exist), otherwise you'd respawn with engine running and in 4th gear (example) and it will just bog.

So you trade some arcadey for some other arcadey.

MaX.

Depends on how far you want to take this? I mean if we reset the bike with the rider on-board engine running(as is the case now) then why can't the rider have the clutch disengaged too? This will allow the rider to select the gear they want to pull away.
If you want to go full sim then the rider would have to go through a sequence of running up to the bike bringing it upright, running alongside it to bump start it, hop-on and off your go. So we have to ask how far do we want to take reality in the sim? Some solutions are sensible, others are probably taking things a little too far, though for me I'd like to see deep reality implemented for this type of situation. That would mean - Crash and there would be a 90%+ chance that your race is over. Problem solved. ;)

h106frp

Wonder if a 'synchronize neutral' joystick button input declaration would be a possibility ?

Another microswitch only activated when you enter/pass neutral that when detected cause the rider to release the clutch during respawn and also ensures game and controller stay synchronized.

Maybe something for the future if a commercial foot controller becomes available for now i guess an override to let me shuffle gears without the game knowing  ;)

Napalm Nick

Wouldn't having big old clunky stiff highly sprung push button switches for the gearshift make it easier and still give good feel?

Not as nice a solution as yours but removes all the problems.  :)
"The post you are writing has been written at least ten times already in the last 15ish years. Its already been reported, suggested, discussed, ignored or archived (but mostly ignored). Why are you doing it again?"

h106frp

Tried that, and it works but it does not give that 'slotting it into gear' feel you get from the proper mechanism. I just though this would be a good (without thinking the implications of having absolute positions on the controller through fully) upgrade to the mechanism.

With foot controls you can deliver a lot of force but you do not have as much feel as you do with hand controls so you need a mechanism that gives a lot of feel and good feedback that it has engaged a gear.

Crap or unplanned  gear changes are also instant crash territory in GPB so the system needs to be reliable or it will just end up being annoying. Having tried the AUTO gears option versus my hamfisted manual changes i have realized i am never going to enjoy GPB fully without manual shift, the AUTO pretty much ruins every lap causing wheel lock ups and running wide on corners. Even my poor efforts with hand controller button shift (i generally get muddled between brakes and shifting during downshifting/turn approach :-[ ) give much improved laps.

With springs(even big ones) the lever invariably end up 'bouncy', the normal ratchet/pawl system keeps the lever locked in place until the force is high enough for a definite single action before resetting itself. The complication is not the mechanism as its quite simple, its just integrating it into GPBs current control options.

Maybe once we see DD's controllers in use by more sim owners the options in game will developed to allow easier integration of different systems, early days for this sort of controller silliness.

Its a bit over the top i know but a good foot control has lurked in the back of my mind since the first time i played GP500 (i dashed out and bought it on release day and it still sits as a surviving 'classic' on my shelf). Just seems the natural approach if you are used to real world riding as the actions required are already second nature and you do not really give it much thought. Much the same as good car driving setups try to emulate the difference in feel between clutch/throttle and brake pedals to give the illusion of familiarity.

For anyone who has steered clear of their gearbox innards and is confused by my waffle this is the normal mechanism i want to simulate;


The pawl attached to the shift lever (lower left) indexes the star round on the pins and causes a drum to revolve that sets the gear. The sprung arm with the roller (bottom) locks the star in position (gear). The picture shows neutral selected and the roller on the top of the star arm, normal gears are in the positions between the star arms.

The position with the short star arm is neutral - between 2 normal gear positions;


So one option is weld up (build up and reprofile) the neutral position so the selector becomes sequential with no proper neutral :(


HornetMaX

Quote from: Hawk UK on June 13, 2015, 11:53:45 PM
Depends on how far you want to take this? I mean if we reset the bike with the rider on-board engine running(as is the case now) then why can't the rider have the clutch disengaged too? This will allow the rider to select the gear they want to pull away.
To me it is fine as it is, because having GPB staying in the gear before the crash means more frustration for newcomers. And they already have to bear a lot of frustration ...

I really think h106frp can find a good compromise in terms of feeling without having a real gearbox attached which honestly is a bit too much in my opinion.
I'd understand a real brake circuit to give you the feeling of it, but for gears it is minor.

Of course, if Piboso is OK to support the option why not (I guess it's already there for cars, as when your steering wheel has an H-pattern you have to support this).

MaX.

teeds

Simple but effective. The foot switches give resistance before clicking and I wouldn't want much more with only socks on. I want to introduce a spring to hold the lever central at some point but otherwise it's job done. If you have some kind of footwear on though this gives very little feel. Only other issue is longevity of the switches, first set lasted about 6 months of heavy use before needing a trip to the bin but these new ones are way better albeit a slightly higher price.




h106frp

Neat, and similar concept to what i have at the moment. I was just hoping to give the pedal a more 'familiar' feel. If i get it working the switches will get an easy life as well as the actuator at the switch will have fixed throw.

Certain i will get a solution eventually even it it means not having a fixed neutral position  :)