Why no penalty for Marquez?

[HornetMaX]

Having thought more on this what Official Rule was applied in making Valentino's penalty? Contact?

Intentionally leading the opponent towards the outside by taking a clearly unusual trajectory ?

I don't know how it is formulated in legalese, but translated it sounds as "pushing him intentionally out of the track (or trying to)". Usually it's enough for a DSQ.

MaX.

[matty0l215]

What about the Flying Duck?? (Iannone) He doesn't give a s**t who's at the front he'll just power through 

Well let me tell you, if I was race director I would have penalized that seagull for sure 

I think he had a pretty harsh punisemt! He had his heart sold on ebay 

[Napalm Nick]

Having thought more on this what Official Rule was applied in making Valentino's penalty? Contact?

Intentionally leading the opponent towards the outside by taking a clearly unusual trajectory ?

I don't know how it is formulated in legalese, but translated it sounds as "pushing him intentionally out of the track (or trying to)". Usually it's enough for a DSQ.

MaX.

Ah yes..
'Deliberately running wide in a corner in order to try and force another rider off line. The result was a crash so it's irresponsible riding'

Irresponsible riding = 3 point penalty. Wonder where they got the back of the grid idea too then? Maybe RD has some frredom with the penalty decisions.

[HornetMaX]

Ah yes..
'Deliberately running wide in a corner in order to try and force another rider off line. The result was a crash so it's irresponsible riding'

Irresponsible riding = 3 point penalty. Wonder where they got the back of the grid idea too then? Maybe RD has some frredom with the penalty decisions.

3 points penalty is on the rider license (not championship points). As Rossi had already lost one point during this season, at 4 points lost you automatically start last in the next GP.



MaX.

[davidboda46]

Rossi was the cause of the crash because he rode in an unnatural way. Let's say that he would have outbraked himself, and ended up where he did, his trajectory still would have been different and Marquez would have a clear idea of how to react, meaning he could have easily gone under Rossi and be on his way before Rossi had the chance to get on the gas again. Now, since Rossi basically stopped, and looked at Marquez twice, and was riding "jerky" let's say, there was nothing natural about the event. Marc was not the one who slowed down first (well not obviously at least and not in that moment, the "Marc slowing down in other" places is still being debated), he essentially did nothing wrong from the rule book perspective. Rossi was the cause for them being in the situation in the first place.

If race direction would have deemed that he kicked Marc (which he did not), his penalty would have been more severe. I also do not believe that Marc crashed on purpose, he wanted to beat Rossi, to prove that he is better than him, and also, Honda and the sponsors would not have been overly happy if they figured out that he crashed on purpose (to force a disqualification on Rossi). The reason why race direction did not black flag him was that it was not obvious what had happened. Imagine, with one round left and the championship on the line, they decide that Rossi kicked Marc and then it turns out that he did not, race directions decision would have caused Rossi to leave with zero points and basically destroying the championship with a wrongfull (and non-retractable) decision. MotoGP (and Dorna) could not afford to take that risk, so they played the "safe card". The reason why Rossi only got 3 penalty points is because Hanika admitted to deliberately wanting to make another rider crash (and he did just that) and for that he received 5 penalty points. Since did not intend for Marc to actually crash (according to Vale at least) and race direction could not see any proof to contradict that, it would have been very strange to give Rossi the same punishment as Hanika. But since Rossi had one penalty point already (for getting in Jorge's way during qualifying at a previous round) he get's to start from the back of the grid.

I also think that Marc rode dirty, but he kept it within the rules, balancing on the edge, but still. Morally he should not have raced as he did for two reasons. 1. It was on the fifth lap. 2. He is out of the championship fight, Rossi is not. I don't think he let Lorenzo pass him on purpose, I think Marc made a mistake, Lorenzo went by and Marc could not keep up. He realized he would not win the race, and when he got the opportunity to F with Rossi, he took it. I also don't think that Rossi would have caught Jorge, even if Marc would not have interfered, but you never know. Even so, Marc never gave Rossi the opportunity to at least put pressure on Lorenzo.

In hindsight (a luxury exclusive to sofa-racers, pundits and journos - not racers), Rossi should have slowed down a lap (like 1sec/per lap) and let Marc go on. If Marc slows down after that it is obvious to everybody that he intentionally is trying to mess Rossi up. If he does not., 4th (and no penalty points) is still better for Rossi than the end result we have now. And if they would have continued to fight like they did, I don't think they would have finished the race.

Another hindsight: it would probably been better if for Rossi if he was black flagged after Marc had crashed. As it is now, my guess is that Jorge have to crash out in Valencia for Vale to take the title. Can't see that happening, unless somebody takes him out. If that would happen, I have a feeling that "somebody" will not be Marquez. But with all the craziness lately, who the F knows...     

[HornetMaX]

But since Rossi had one penalty point already (for getting in Jorge's way during qualifying at a previous round)

As if the "fans" remember this ...



MaX.

[WALKEN]

I'm sure Rossi wouldn't be proud at all, neither "should" Jorge as the championship title has been tainted by Marquez...

If I was race director and had to make a call on this matter. 

Marquez provoked Rossi and interfered in a championship runners title. Marquez should have been penalized for this. Rossi could have played the part of the bigger man and should have but he said F^&% it.  That being said both riders should be penalized! But to send Rossi to the back of the grid at Valencia I believe is to harsh. Take the 3 points from Rossi and take points from Marc for interfering.  Its out of respect that fellow riders allow title contenders to battle without unnecessary interference.

IMO, Rossi should have played Marc"s game and came in 4th, or followed him  to allow everyone who believes otherwise to see the truth. 

No one wins this year!  That is one trophy to not be proud of no matter who wins it.

I got sick to my stomach when I watch Marc fall. But he antagonized it.  As a man, Rossi should have allowed Marc to be a little C&^% and take it on the chin.     

Its so obvious what happened if you watch the race live. Marc was like a over aggressive little fly buzzing around Rossi to ruin his momentum and title chance.

Again I stress no one wins in this championship this year as watching the last race is not something that will bring joy to anyone.  If I feel bad for anyone I feel bad for Jorge.             

So in the end we agree on almost everything.

But is it better for Rossi:

• to have a 7pts lead and start last (as it will be)
• or to have a 4pts lead and qualify normally (as it would be if race direction had only given him a 10sec penalty, making him 4th instead of 3rd in Sepang, as you're suggesting)

I think it's a closer call than it seems first sight ... with only a 4 pts lead, essentially Rossi would need to arrive before Lorenzo, assuming Jorge will finish 1st or 2nd. Note that in case of equal points, Lorenzo wins because of more wins.

With a 7pts lead, it's a whole different story ...

Well let me tell you, if I was race director I would have penalized that seagull for sure 

Right: the seagull was not involved in the fight for the championship, he/she shuld have let all the riders pass without any obstruction 

MaX.

Max! I'm glad we are on the same page

[Docfumi]

Quote from
Vyvyan Basterd - (Character)
from "The Young Ones"

No! No! NO! NO! We're not watching the bloody Moto GP! Bloody bloody bloody! I hate it! It's so bloody nice!
Jorge "Treacle" Lorenzo and Marc "Sugar-Flavored-Snot" Marquez! What do they do now? Chocolate bloody button ads, that's what! They're nothing but a couple of reactionary stereotypes, confirming the myth that everyone in Spain is a lovable, upper-class eccentric - and I - HATE - THEM!