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About 3D models "rips"

Started by RiccoChicco, December 08, 2015, 12:23:31 AM

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RiccoChicco

Since the concerned topic has been locked, it seems that opening a new one is the only solution to answer. If PiBoSo doesn't want to talk about it anymore, he's free to delete this topic.

So here's the last message, which I'll try to answer.

Quote from: PiBoSoRipping the GPB models? Seriously?  >:(

Yes, seriously. Why? Not to sell those models to someone else, not to distribute it for other games. Nothing. MotoGP15 has both Varese and Murasama in a better modelling quality. If people really want those models, they have no reason to rip GPB compared to MotoGP games. If I personnally tried to get those models, it was only to work on skins in the most effective way. We are here for your physic engine, not to steal your 3D models. Moreover, the concerned members, (h106frp, Matty, Hawk and I) are not new comers here. You know that we've all contributed to the community.

I personnally tried several times to get those models to create paints, since repacking a pnt each time isn't very confortable to work with. As suggested by myself few weeks ago, an EDF Viewer will be greatly appreciated. It's a good solution : no need to find the original model, quick texture testing, etc. As said in the topic, it's not the more important work to do for now looking at GPB developement state, so I'm not blaming you for not releasing this kind of tool. But please, consider our position as content creators. If you want new stuff for your simulators, we need some things to work with in the best possible way.

Ripping is something "bad" even for most of modders. I personnally don't like to distribute things which I'm not author at 100% without telling the original source. But telling that we've taken this model from there, the other one from there is not good for you, that's why no one seems to mention it. I've no shame to admit that I'm not the original creator of my mods so if you're not happy with "rips", you're free to delete all my mods and probably 90% of the mods section (bikes, tracks, even skins).

I can imagine (well not really in fact  :-\) that all the upcoming realeases are stressful, a lot of people are asking you everyday they want at release date or the core.exe to disapear by magic. This ripping problem shouldn't be a new cause of problem to manage since there's nothing really wrong in our case and nothing was made to make you angry.

Just my two cents.

Sorry if we misunderstood each other  :)

matty0l215

To be honest. I didn't have any idea what the 3d models where. I just thought they we're related to the Bike MOD.  Otherwise i would have left the thread alone for proper modders :P

Quote from: RiccoChicco on December 08, 2015, 12:23:31 AM

I personnally tried several times to get those models to create paints, since repacking a pnt each time isn't very confortable to work with. As suggested by myself few weeks ago, an EDF Viewer will be greatly appreciated. It's a good solution : no need to find the original model, quick texture testing, etc. As said in the topic, it's not the more important work to do for now looking at GPB developement state, so I'm not blaming you for not releasing this kind of tool. But please, consider our position as content creators. If you want new stuff for your simulators, we need some things to work with in the best possible way.


I agree with this. An out of game bike viewer would be nice (if only for skinning purposes) but it is by no means essential. I can live with the current setup until further in development, although it is a bit of a ball ache, it isn't half as bad as the F1 20** games i used to skin for. :)

Sorry  :-[
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Hawk

I can understand people wanting to rip 3D models to be able to understand how to create models, to get their scale, and anything related to helping the community users of the 3D models to understand how to mod for that community. This I believe was the only intention of the ripped GPB bike 3D models. I don't believe there was any malicious or disrespectful intent going on there at all.

But I also understand just how annoying it would be for me, as a 3D modeller, to find out that someone had ripped my model without having the respect to at least ask me permissions first. In fact for me personally(for work I'd done on modding that is not intended to be sold), if someone in the community wanted my personal original 3D file work to help them understand how things are done then I'd be happy to send those files to them so long as they were not used outside of the community for any monetary gains and I was at least credited for the work should they use it for any other type of MOD or work outside of it's original intended use.

But I'm sure these issues could easily be avoided with the developers detailed information about how to go about putting together and readying for exporting an already created bikeMOD 3D model for GPB and the scale worked with for modelling the Mods.

BikeModders could also help too, whenever they can, by sharing their hard earned knowledge of how to go about doing things..... We are all part of the same community here and should help each other whenever we can, right? ;D 8)

Hawk.



HornetMaX

It's just a misunderstanding. Looking at ripped models doesn't even help that much if your goal is to understand the basics.

What Ricco did here (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=2937.msg45626#msg45626), i.e. passsing the 3d files of a bike he created/adapted to GPB, is what will help people starting with 3d modeling for GPB.

Anyway, it's probably a bad idea to put the GPB bikes ripped models online and accessible to anybody: we may have good intentions here, but sooner or later somebody will be tempted to use them for something else ... it just makes the thing a little bit too easy for them (not that ripping is terribly hard anyway).

RiccoChicco

Quote from: Hawk on December 08, 2015, 11:18:54 AM

But I also understand just how annoying it would be for me, as a 3D modeller, to find out that someone had ripped my model without having the respect to at least ask me permissions first. In fact for me personally(for work I'd done on modding that is not intended to be sold), if someone in the community wanted my personal original 3D file work to help them understand how things are done then I'd be happy to send those files to them so long as they were not used outside of the community for any monetary gains and I was at least credited for the work should they use it for any other type of MOD or work outside of it's original intended use.


I fully agree with that but let's face it : a huge part of GPB mods are coming from somewhere else, and to be honnest very very few give the original source or ask for the original creator to get it in game. And no one seems to complain. But it's like that in a lot of modding communities. Look at GTA mods, it's the same but for thousands of mods. We all know that modders from our community aren't bad persons trying to make money and I'm happy to see that no modder has a "Donate" button like in some other modding communities, especially when they share stuff that they aren't original creators. We're here for fun and to share our passion, not to make money. Luckily, we are a small but a great community, there's always someone to help if needed in every part of modding.

Seeing that PiBoSo seems to think that we are here to steal him or whatever, after few years creating improving and adding content, helping new modders and a lot of stuff makes me a bit disappointed.  :-\ Those rips were only for GPB modding purposes, not to sell it, to distribute it or port it to another game.  :-X And if some people needed it, I was ready to share it to "serious" people in PM. I agree with MaX that sharing it online directly is not a good idea. So yes, it should be a misunderstanding. I just opened this topic to be clear with PiBoSo.


PiBoSo


Ripping models from GP Bikes is just wrong, regardless of your intentions.
The same applies to reverse-engineering the code. It's just not allowed.
"La perfezione non è il nostro obiettivo, è la nostra tendenza".

h106frp

Respectfully, i would suggest that the bike MOD wiki is updated to reflect the current situation. Currently it is misleading and has caused a lot of trouble and i feel quite bad for having been the cause.  :(


RiccoChicco

Quote from: PiBoSo on December 08, 2015, 02:00:41 PM

Ripping models from GP Bikes is just wrong, regardless of your intentions.
The same applies to reverse-engineering the code. It's just not allowed.

I think we've understood your point. Don't worry, nothing will be published. I just hope you understand my arguments, even if you don't share it.

Quote from: h106frp on December 08, 2015, 02:20:54 PM
Respectfully, i would suggest that the bike MOD wiki is updated to reflect the current situation. Currently it is misleading and has caused a lot of trouble and i feel quite bad for having been the cause.  :(

Don't worry, you're not the cause. We're at a point where talking about this kind of stuff is interesting to know statements from each part about all this stuff. I'm a bit frustrated by that but that's not a problem and let's move on.

Hopefully the wiki will be updated soon on some "mysterious" parts. But most of 3D bike exporting is known, since some users took some time to understand how all of that is working regardless to the documentation. Maybe some users will be motivated enough to make some tutorials about it soon and I personnaly think about it since few months.

Hawk

Quote from: h106frp on December 08, 2015, 02:20:54 PM
Respectfully, i would suggest that the bike MOD wiki is updated to reflect the current situation. Currently it is misleading and has caused a lot of trouble and i feel quite bad for having been the cause.  :(

I wouldn't worry about it H.... Piboso isn't blaming anyone in particular over this matter.... I'm as much to blame as anyone for posting that link. Usually I wouldn't have done that, but I was short of time and just wanted to help out so I didn't think. So if anyone is to blame for this it's me.  :-\

But Piboso has now stated his position on ripping and reverse engineering of the "GPB" bike models, track and code; so I now suggest we all respectfully note and underline that and just move on now and continue to help each other with our own bike and track mods whenever we can.  ;)

Great job Ricco on helping h106frp with your M1 3D files.... That's the sort of help and co-operation we all like to see I'm sure. I know you have helped me a lot in the past and guiding me in the right direction on integrating tracks.... Long may your valued help and advice continue mate.  ;) 8)

Hawk.

HornetMaX

Quote from: h106frp on December 08, 2015, 02:20:54 PM
Respectfully, i would suggest that the bike MOD wiki is updated to reflect the current situation. Currently it is misleading and has caused a lot of trouble and i feel quite bad for having been the cause.  :(
As far as I know, the person that started that wiki has disappeared since quite a while. The wiki (in its current status) is mostly useless.

Quote from: PiBoSo on December 08, 2015, 02:00:41 PM
Ripping models from GP Bikes is just wrong, regardless of your intentions.
The same applies to reverse-engineering the code. It's just not allowed.
Reverse-engineering the code ?! Are you referring to something / somebody / a past event in particular ?

C21

QuoteMaybe some users will be motivated enough to make some tutorials about it soon and I personnaly think about it since few months.
Long awaited, many times asked for , never done yet  ???
I know it is not easy  ;)
# Member of the CAWS Racing Team #


Alone

I started one a couple of years ago. I can start with that and the others could continue.