Author Topic: General netcode/physics debate.  (Read 4634 times)

dareaper46

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General netcode/physics debate.
« on: February 24, 2016, 03:41:04 PM »
With such big problems on hand.. Core crashes and weird bike physics behaviour... we need this :

* GPB / WRS / KRP / MXB: added the possibility to compare setups

-.-
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 09:10:48 PM by WALKEN »

Hawk

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Re: Re: GPBikes uphill downhill strange thing
« Reply #1 on: February 24, 2016, 04:07:24 PM »
With such big problems on hand.. Core crashes and weird bike physics behaviour... we need this :

* GPB / WRS / KRP / MXB: added the possibility to compare setups

-.-

I tend to agree, and I feel frustrations building because Piboso apparently seems to be working mostly on issues that quite frankly are issues for polishing the projects towards the end.....

But maybe there are reasons unbeknown to us why Piboso is working on these seemingly small additions instead of the major issues??? Maybe Piboso could enlighten us because I can feel real frustration and may I say anger building at the seemingly lack of work being even started on the major problems.

Please enlighten us Piboso, you keep promising us that your going to fix the netcode problem but we see no evidence of this. We really want to help but we're finding it hard to understand your priorities here right now.  :)

Hawk.

TheFatController

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Re: Re: GPBikes uphill downhill strange thing
« Reply #2 on: February 24, 2016, 04:18:27 PM »
It's been the best part of a year (10 months) since anyone in MXB could play online, so hopefully the priorities are MXB beta 4 with the option of disabling deformation on the server followed by nothing but netcode/stability fixes.

WALKEN

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Re: Re: GPBikes uphill downhill strange thing
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2016, 04:25:32 PM »
Although we are sliding the front off topic here, I always viewed netcode as an after thought. Physics need to be stable first.

What good is a netcode if the physics are off? We are just spoiled is all.   
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Hawk

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Re: Re: GPBikes uphill downhill strange thing
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2016, 04:34:52 PM »
It's been the best part of a year (10 months) since anyone in MXB could play online, so hopefully the priorities are MXB beta 4 with the option of disabling deformation on the server followed by nothing but netcode/stability fixes.

We've been awaiting a fix to the netcode way before MXB was a twinkle in Piboso's eye. Lol. Besides a fix to the netcode would translate into all his projects not just GPB.  :P ;)

But I would suggest your statement belongs on the MXB forum and not here, but if you feel you have to post a statement not related to GPB in this forum then post it in the off-topic thread.  ::)

Hawk.

Yohji

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Re: Re: GPBikes uphill downhill strange thing
« Reply #5 on: February 24, 2016, 04:48:42 PM »
perhaps it have difference  between player and Developer.

I think. it sounds nice that we(player) are discussion what we want and it priorities . and we suggestion it to Developer, and ask "How hard can it be?"



TheFatController

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Re: Re: GPBikes uphill downhill strange thing
« Reply #6 on: February 24, 2016, 04:54:36 PM »
It's been the best part of a year (10 months) since anyone in MXB could play online, so hopefully the priorities are MXB beta 4 with the option of disabling deformation on the server followed by nothing but netcode/stability fixes.

We've been awaiting a fix to the netcode way before MXB was a twinkle in Piboso's eye. Lol. Besides a fix to the netcode would translate into all his projects not just GPB.  :P ;)

But I would suggest your statement belongs on the MXB forum and not here, but if you feel you have to post a statement not related to GPB in this forum then post it in the off-topic thread.  ::)

Hawk.

It might not be related to the strange up and down hills bug, so sorry for keeping it off topic but I was just replying to your post made above (should have quoted). In fact I think it was a pretty relevant reply as I was replying to the whole 'what's PiBoSo working on' thing. I've seen a lot of mxb stuff in the daily dev thread which gives me hope of seeing beta 4 before any more very extensive changes are added delaying it further.

I'm well aware you guys have had core.exe problems long before mxb was in nappies, but random cores and not being able to get online at all are two different things..

Also as for the result of a netcode fix being valid for all sims, right on, but that just highlights the fact that we're all in the same boat, gpb, mxb, krp, wrs.. Just sharing the love right?

Ok, no more from me, you guys can get back to talking about your hills :)

Hawk

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Re: Re: GPBikes uphill downhill strange thing
« Reply #7 on: February 24, 2016, 04:55:14 PM »
Although we are sliding the front off topic here, I always viewed netcode as an after thought. Physics need to be stable first.

What good is a netcode if the physics are off? We are just spoiled is all.

I'm shocked WALKEN!  :o :o

I can only think you don't understand just how important online playability and stability is to Piboso's customers for any of Piboso's projects.... Without that his projects are as good as dead in the water in my opinion... Keeps saying his projects are not selling enough to make a living.... Well, "Ding!, "Ding!", we keep telling him why and what's needed to get people to start really buying his projects yet we see no evidence or, just as importantly, any explanation as to just why he's not working on these major issues.

The GPB physics are good enough for riders to really enjoy themselves right now, and have been since beta 3 in my opinion.... Online stability surely is the highest of priorities?  Should have been for a long, long time before now.

Maybe he thinks the same, that the physics are still a higher priority? Given the overwhelming evidence that is staring Piboso in the face here on this forum, I'd say that was crazy thinking in my book.  ::)

I need a smoke! QUICKLY! Hehe  ;D ;D 8)

Hawk.


Hawk

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Re: Re: GPBikes uphill downhill strange thing
« Reply #8 on: February 24, 2016, 05:03:20 PM »
It's been the best part of a year (10 months) since anyone in MXB could play online, so hopefully the priorities are MXB beta 4 with the option of disabling deformation on the server followed by nothing but netcode/stability fixes.

We've been awaiting a fix to the netcode way before MXB was a twinkle in Piboso's eye. Lol. Besides a fix to the netcode would translate into all his projects not just GPB.  :P ;)

But I would suggest your statement belongs on the MXB forum and not here, but if you feel you have to post a statement not related to GPB in this forum then post it in the off-topic thread.  ::)

Hawk.

It might not be related to the strange up and down hills bug, so sorry for keeping it off topic but I was just replying to your post made above (should have quoted). In fact I think it was a pretty relevant reply as I was replying to the whole 'what's PiBoSo working on' thing. I've seen a lot of mxb stuff in the daily dev thread which gives me hope of seeing beta 4 before any more very extensive changes are added delaying it further.

I'm well aware you guys have had core.exe problems long before mxb was in nappies, but random cores and not being able to get online at all are two different things..

Also as for the result of a netcode fix being valid for all sims, right on, but that just highlights the fact that we're all in the same boat, gpb, mxb, krp, wrs.. Just sharing the love right?

Ok, no more from me, you guys can get back to talking about your hills :)

My apologies mate.... It's not my place to be saying what should be posted here..... I'm just feeling really pissed-off today(nothing related to Piboso or GPB). Like you say, we're all in the same boat right.   ;) 8)

I'll just go and have a smoke and stay away from the forum for a few hours.... Hopefully I'll be in a better mood. Lol  :-\ :-X 8)

Hawk.  :-X

TheFatController

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Re: Re: GPBikes uphill downhill strange thing
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2016, 05:08:42 PM »
No offense taken mate :)

Stout Johnson

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Re: Re: GPBikes uphill downhill strange thing
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2016, 05:33:31 PM »
I'm shocked WALKEN!  :o :o

I can only think you don't understand just how important online playability and stability is to Piboso's customers for any of Piboso's projects.... Without that his projects are as good as dead in the water in my opinion... Keeps saying his projects are not selling enough to make a living.... Well, "Ding!, "Ding!", we keep telling him why and what's needed to get people to start really buying his projects yet we see no evidence or, just as importantly, any explanation as to just why he's not working on these major issues.

The GPB physics are good enough for riders to really enjoy themselves right now, and have been since beta 3 in my opinion.... Online stability surely is the highest of priorities?  Should have been for a long, long time before now.
Exactly! GPB physics is so much advanced compared to any other (of the few) motorcycle titles, what it needs is a stable netcode for a stable fanbase. It is just being proven by the latest edition of Napalm Nick's race event - the riders involved seemed to have so much fun and seemd seemingly addicted - the only strings attached came from core.exe stuff (and a bit obviously nervous front wobbles). But any physics at this advanced stage, will not deter players from riding and competing online. Core.exe for sure does!!! We did have already great races back in beta3 stage, the only fun-limiting stuff were core.exe's!

Piboso's spirits lately seemed almost battered by the fact that strong competition might be around the corner for KRP. All this with KRP having a huge fanbase, waiting for the game to become stable online for years... this could happen to any title of yours any time Piboso.

I don't want to be in the "GPB complainer's club"... like Hawk said, a short notice or proof of Piboso acklowledging the main issues (atm netcode) and actually working on it, would make waiting much more bearable. If he continues to ignore all warnings signs, I think there is no reason to complain about absence of sales or other titles challenging the market he failed to occupy... and we might lose the chance to see this tremendous sim become a finished product ever.  :-\

If I could choose between...
a) physics frozen as they are but perfect netcode
b) perfect physics (as perfect as it might ever be possible) and netcode as it is
... I would surely choose a) without a doubt. And I would bet that the vast majority would agree. In the end Piboso, you need to live on the sales, for sales you need to know what customers want. We are giving you valuable feedback. Even if you have second thoughts to let physics stay as they are, this is what you have to do in order to keep your projects alive. You will in all likeliness never reach a situtation, where you are 100% content with physics! There will always be some minor issues, that you will want to tackle. It is like science - the more problems you solve, the more new questions arise - only on a different scale. So just accept your great work with the advanced physics you have and concentrate on making your sims have a stable netcode. Otherwise you are digging a grave for your projects...

(sorry for staying off-topic)
« Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 05:48:23 PM by Stout Johnson »
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h106frp

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Re: Re: GPBikes uphill downhill strange thing
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2016, 07:27:04 PM »
As an aside, has anybody noticed if they get a debug dump after core?, i remember PB suggesting he was adding some new debug stuff.

Hawk

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Re: Re: GPBikes uphill downhill strange thing
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2016, 07:40:56 PM »
As an aside, has anybody noticed if they get a debug dump after core?, i remember PB suggesting he was adding some new debug stuff.

Firstly just to say I totally agree with what Stout has said in his post above.... Well said mate!  ;)

I remember something about debug that Piboso was talking about a while back for beta 8, but I'm buggered if I can find that post now.  :-\

Not looked for a debug dump log after a core.... I'll have to remember to do that, but Piboso has not said or asked for any debug help from us, so I'd guess there isn't one.

Hawk.

vini97

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Re: Re: GPBikes uphill downhill strange thing
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2016, 08:15:34 PM »
Not looked for a debug dump log after a core.... I'll have to remember to do that, but Piboso has not said or asked for any debug help from us, so I'd guess there isn't one.
We all know that PiBoSo works in mysterious ways.
Remember the RotationAxis thing? He added a completely new function to new the game and didn't even feel the need to put it into the changelog..... lol


And I would also like to find PiBoSo's comment regarding debug again.
I am almost 100% sure he put it in the daily development thread.
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WALKEN

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Re: Re: GPBikes uphill downhill strange thing
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2016, 09:19:27 PM »
Although we are sliding the front off topic here, I always viewed netcode as an after thought. Physics need to be stable first.

What good is a netcode if the physics are off? We are just spoiled is all.

I'm shocked WALKEN!  :o :o

I can only think you don't understand just how important online playability and stability is to Piboso's customers for any of Piboso's projects.... Without that his projects are as good as dead in the water in my opinion... Keeps saying his projects are not selling enough to make a living.... Well, "Ding!, "Ding!", we keep telling him why and what's needed to get people to start really buying his projects yet we see no evidence or, just as importantly, any explanation as to just why he's not working on these major issues.

The GPB physics are good enough for riders to really enjoy themselves right now, and have been since beta 3 in my opinion.... Online stability surely is the highest of priorities?  Should have been for a long, long time before now.

Maybe he thinks the same, that the physics are still a higher priority? Given the overwhelming evidence that is staring Piboso in the face here on this forum, I'd say that was crazy thinking in my book.  ::)

I need a smoke! QUICKLY! Hehe  ;D ;D 8)

Hawk.

The one thing I can point out is GPBikes is a beta. It has great things to offer as well as not so great things. I can't see Piboso releasing GPBikes as a beta. The netcode has to be stable upon final release to be successful.  We are more testers than the general public hence we deal with let down with empathy.   
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