Author Topic: General netcode/physics debate.  (Read 4635 times)

grimm

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Re: General netcode/physics debate.
« Reply #45 on: February 27, 2016, 07:23:25 AM »
I made it online once, waaaaay back in the Alpha days, and got chewed out about my name being the defaultProfile and my race number matching someone elses on track. I live with a dog shit anxiety problem so I shy away from anything multiplayer, and that experience made me a little apprehensive about joining up on a server again, so I've been the local stunt rider on the forums due to it.

I swear if the netcode issues get fixed and there is open "track day" type servers around where it's just pick up and go, run a few laps over coffee before work, I would be all about it. But for that, as many have said, the code needs cleaned up and we need more people online at any given time. Piboso is right, if we want to just "race online" there is plenty of ways to do it, but back at Piboso, we want to race GP Bikes online. I want to see a rider in front of me catch a wobble so bad they nearly eat tarmac from it, recover, and come rocketing past on the apex of the last turn at Victoria and win the race! I want to pick up a wheelie and come screaming through 3 gears of unicycle mode as people pit out and see me doing my hooligan things around the track. I want to put a hand up and move out of the racing line to let a faster rider past, and let them know I am giving them the, "Hey, I know you are there, go on by, I'm slower.". It will be so cool when it happens!

I never speak up about much around here because this place is so decent about getting points across. But this is one thing I can get onboard with and say that I support the guys saying netcode is a big deal. Dunno what else to say that won't sound like I am picking at the same old things everyone has been on about, so I'll leave it where it's at typed out. I'm not crying for improved netcode, I'm not saying it should be top priority, I'm just saying, someone that is extremely reclusive is participating in your community you have built, and at a rather public level at that, and I would delve deeper into getting to know you all on the track if the green light lit up over there not being a bunch of issues with us meeting up to ride. :)

Napalm Nick

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Re: General netcode/physics debate.
« Reply #46 on: February 27, 2016, 10:02:33 AM »
I want to see a rider in front of me catch a wobble so bad they nearly eat tarmac from it, recover, and come rocketing past on the apex of the last turn at Victoria and win the race! I want to pick up a wheelie and come screaming through 3 gears of unicycle mode as people pit out and see me doing my hooligan things around the track. I want to put a hand up and move out of the racing line to let a faster rider past, and let them know I am giving them the, "Hey, I know you are there, go on by, I'm slower.". It will be so cool when it happens!

That is all happening now brother, especially that hand in the air stuff - I do it every race when I get lapped lol!

But you are right, there are issues I the races that upset even the hardiest of us fools.

I totally understand and agree with all your points mate and races may not be the best place while it still cores out but I think you will find a lot of fun in the hotlap and practice sessions and really hope to see you make it online  !  Maybe you would like to try it with just one or two of us at first or something. Call anytime.

Keep that wheel up mate!
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Hawk

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Re: General netcode/physics debate.
« Reply #47 on: February 27, 2016, 10:23:41 AM »
I made it online once, waaaaay back in the Alpha days, and got chewed out about my name being the defaultProfile and my race number matching someone elses on track. I live with a dog shit anxiety problem so I shy away from anything multiplayer, and that experience made me a little apprehensive about joining up on a server again, so I've been the local stunt rider on the forums due to it.

I swear if the netcode issues get fixed and there is open "track day" type servers around where it's just pick up and go, run a few laps over coffee before work, I would be all about it. But for that, as many have said, the code needs cleaned up and we need more people online at any given time. Piboso is right, if we want to just "race online" there is plenty of ways to do it, but back at Piboso, we want to race GP Bikes online. I want to see a rider in front of me catch a wobble so bad they nearly eat tarmac from it, recover, and come rocketing past on the apex of the last turn at Victoria and win the race! I want to pick up a wheelie and come screaming through 3 gears of unicycle mode as people pit out and see me doing my hooligan things around the track. I want to put a hand up and move out of the racing line to let a faster rider past, and let them know I am giving them the, "Hey, I know you are there, go on by, I'm slower.". It will be so cool when it happens!

I never speak up about much around here because this place is so decent about getting points across. But this is one thing I can get onboard with and say that I support the guys saying netcode is a big deal. Dunno what else to say that won't sound like I am picking at the same old things everyone has been on about, so I'll leave it where it's at typed out. I'm not crying for improved netcode, I'm not saying it should be top priority, I'm just saying, someone that is extremely reclusive is participating in your community you have built, and at a rather public level at that, and I would delve deeper into getting to know you all on the track if the green light lit up over there not being a bunch of issues with us meeting up to ride. :)

Well said mate!  ;)
That is exactly the point..... That riders who like to race online don't want to race online with the crappy Milestone rubbish(only put up with it because it's their only option), we want to race online with the best, "GPBikes". And like I said, multiplayer online racing is massive nowadays but those that would buy GPBikes know about the online instability issues so they won't buy unless or until GPBikes is fully multiplayer network stable.

I know myself that when anyone comes online with the default "UnamedProfile" name that we do have a little bit of friendly banter with them, but it's not anything malicious or at all intended to belittle them.  ;)
Best thing for anyone to do when they first install GPB is to click "Profile" on the main menu and delete the default profile: "UnamedProfile", and create a new one with their own nickname and race number if they want to avoid any banter coming their way about that.  But were all friendly guys and willing to help other riders, especially if your new to online racing with GPB..... So come online mate and join us.... You know you'd be welcomed. ;D

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doubledragoncc

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Re: General netcode/physics debate.
« Reply #48 on: February 27, 2016, 12:09:57 PM »
We want grimm, we want grimm......................come on bro its a blast even with the bad points, riding with the guys from here makes up for all the problems there are. It is sooooooooooo worth the try dude. Would be great to get my ass kicked by a brother lol.

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BOBR6 84

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Re: General netcode/physics debate.
« Reply #49 on: February 28, 2016, 03:26:36 AM »
Not trying to convince whoever, I know it's wasted time (and I guess Stout feels the same), but what's the point of having the ultimate modafukka physics simulation if one can't actually use it ?

I do understand what you are saying, but that's not entirely true.. Not had much time to play so far this year but the past couple of years before christmas i was playing quite often.. even long periods of playing every single day! As you can see from most of my basic shitty video's, most of it is riding alone in testing, amusing myself with the bike physics!

Sure, some big issues when you venture online, but even that doesn't stop people..

Personally i think the number of players is low because not everybody wants full on simulation. I bought a PS4  :P if i go online on motogp there is literally hundreds of players (sometimes) and thousands on the leaderboards.

The people that want a bike sim will find their way here (i did) and will stick around regardless..

A question Bob: Would you have bought GPBikes if you knew it didn't have multi-player capability and all you could do was ride around tracks all on your own?

I think the physics is very important and something that puts GPBikes at the top of the racing bike simulation category, but I also think that a stable network/multiplayer capability is just as important for the large market sales I believe GPB could have if the multi-player was stable..... I mean the more people who played in events online the more self-generating the sales would become from others who see it and hear about it and want to be part of it. Multiplayer is MASSIVE nowadays!  ;D

Food for thought:
Riding around on your own is okay for a bit of practice and to initially get used to riding a bike in GPB, but you'll never get that feeling of striving to be the best and win races without participating in online events. Plus you'll never become proficient at racing close in with other riders by riding on your own, so you'll never know what your real skills are in GPB without riding online amongst other riders, so any fast times you do alone on track are pretty irrelevant if your incapable of riding fast in the heat of battle too, don't you think?  ;)

This is why for me personally, hotlapping for the fastest lap time is a totally senseless pursuit...... I mean how many times do you see someone put in a shit-hot lap time and yet come race day they end up down the field because they can't race? I've seen it many times, and recently too. The reality is that they concentrate SO much on hot-lapping that they forget how to race.  :)

Anyway, I'll get off my soap-box before I start sounding like an old man. Hehe  ;D

Hawk.

Quote
A question Bob: Would you have bought GPBikes if you knew it didn't have multi-player capability and all you could do was ride around tracks all on your own?

Yes, absolutely!

Quote
I think the physics is very important and something that puts GPBikes at the top of the racing bike simulation category, but I also think that a stable network/multiplayer capability is just as important for the large market sales I believe GPB could have if the multi-player was stable..... I mean the more people who played in events online the more self-generating the sales would become from others who see it and hear about it and want to be part of it. Multiplayer is MASSIVE nowadays!  ;D

I agree multiplayer is what most people want.. Don't get me wrong, i want it too!

Quote
Food for thought:
Riding around on your own is okay for a bit of practice and to initially get used to riding a bike in GPB, but you'll never get that feeling of striving to be the best and win races without participating in online events. Plus you'll never become proficient at racing close in with other riders by riding on your own, so you'll never know what your real skills are in GPB without riding online amongst other riders, so any fast times you do alone on track are pretty irrelevant if your incapable of riding fast in the heat of battle too, don't you think?  ;)

This is why for me personally, hotlapping for the fastest lap time is a totally senseless pursuit...... I mean how many times do you see someone put in a shit-hot lap time and yet come race day they end up down the field because they can't race? I've seen it many times, and recently too. The reality is that they concentrate SO much on hot-lapping that they forget how to race.  :)

That's the difference here for me.. with GPB there is enough within the physics to keep a grin on my face! To polish it further its going to be amazing!!  8)

As for the competitive side of things.. Been down that road with other bike games.. its life consuming lol.

Time attack is something i have always enjoyed.. If you do enough laps, when it comes to the racing you will be in control of the bike ON or OFF the racing line. Besides, no matter what you race, the actual racing is something you do AFTER putting in all the time and effort practicing.

GPB is still pretty damn good online as it is.. just like the physics, some more improvement and it will be MEGA!!

I really do understand and agree with what alot of you guys are saying.. its just a personal view that if piboso thinks that finishing off the physics first is the way to go, then im good with it!

Anyway, since when has piboso cared about sales?? lol  ;D ;D ;D It's been this way for what? 8-9 years??




Hawk

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Re: General netcode/physics debate.
« Reply #50 on: February 28, 2016, 12:44:21 PM »
If you do enough laps, when it comes to the racing you will be in control of the bike ON or OFF the racing line. Besides, no matter what you race, the actual racing is something you do AFTER putting in all the time and effort practicing.


I hear what your saying above Bob, but I would disagree with you on your point I quoted above.  :)

The reason I disagree is because in my experience, if your just racing around on your own all the time, then yes I agree that you will become proficient at handling the bike but only in a stable continuous way(if you know what I mean?). I mean it's one thing to be able to handle the bike in a long foreseen race line, but if you suddenly get into a situation were your riding with another rider who is as fast as you and can continually keep up pace with you and close to you, then can a rider who is not used to those circumstances handle that continuous pressure without making mistakes and crashing, or worse, causing the other rider to crash or both? It's all part of learning to race to being able to handle those situations.

I've seen so many fast riders who catch up on slower riders and don't give them any respect and undercut them or crash into them going into corners. That to me is a result of them not knowing how to actually: (a)manage a race, or (b) race a bike. Yes they can ride a bike fast, but that doesn't make them a good bike racer.  :)
As a racer a rider should expect to lose time when you catch up to a slower rider, but unless there is an obvious gap that you can fly through at speed then a rider should hold caution and stay behind and pick his time to pass. There are some good riders that actually do this, but the vast majority of the "hot-lap brigade"(controversial phrase. Hehe  ;D ) haven't got a clue how to handle this type of situation other than try and blast past them at the slightest chance and often causing crashes by doing so.

A recent good example of a guy who really knows how to race was the last GP of 2015 in "Valentino Rossi". Now there was a prime example of how an obviously faster rider should work his way up through a field of slower riders... Amazing demonstration of how it should be done!  ;D

But this is why I think the online events should be the more realistic full race lap events rather than the short 10 - 15 lap sprint races that obviously promote the fast hotlap guys more than riders who have the ability to use strategy and race skills together..... A bit like the famous tortoise and the hair race! Hehe  ;D

But no, I don't believe anyone can learn to actually race a bike in GPB without getting online and riding with other riders on track to learn those close in skills of being able to handle the pressures of close in racing battles with other riders.  :)

This is quite often why when you get a good fast hot-lapper who manages to get into the lead early in the race, they often blast off ahead and win the race. But you put that same rider in a situation where for example he crashes in the first corner and ends up well down the field, they make a mess of the race and often only finish in mid-field positions, or rage quite. Lol.

No disrespect to anyone, but fast hot-lap times, yes impressive that they can ride that fast, but it really doesn't mean a thing as far as racing is concerned in my book. In fact I just think that so long as I can keep within 4 - 5 secs of that guy and ride consistently without crashing at that time difference then the chances are that I'd beat him.  :P

So no, I don't believe you can learn to actually race a bike in GPB by riding alone offline no matter what hot-lap times you achieve by riding on your own.

Just my opinion of course, but that's the way I see it from my experience of online racing.  :)

Hawk.

Phathry25

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Re: General netcode/physics debate.
« Reply #51 on: February 28, 2016, 05:48:23 PM »
Anyone see the kickstarter for Big Ant Dirt Track?  The game the dirt track racing community has been begging for for years and years.  It has everything they've been asking for, track deformation based on wetness, all the cars, modability, realistic physics, etc... everything anyone has asked for over the past 10 years to be a part of a dirt track game has been offered.  The one thing nobody asked for because it was a given, online play.  Yup, in 2016 a PC racing title that doesn't offer online play.  The kickstarter has been a huge flop.

Do you still think it's not important?

PiBoSo

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Re: General netcode/physics debate.
« Reply #52 on: February 28, 2016, 06:21:18 PM »
Anyone see the kickstarter for Big Ant Dirt Track?  The game the dirt track racing community has been begging for for years and years.  It has everything they've been asking for, track deformation based on wetness, all the cars, modability, realistic physics, etc... everything anyone has asked for over the past 10 years to be a part of a dirt track game has been offered.  The one thing nobody asked for because it was a given, online play.  Yup, in 2016 a PC racing title that doesn't offer online play.  The kickstarter has been a huge flop.

Do you still think it's not important?

That sprint car model is much worse than the WRS one  8)
And the presentation in general in not very interesting... Footage from old games, a bunch of guys talking, and the driver walking?!?!!?  ???
WRS is 10x times better  :P

Napalm Nick

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Re: General netcode/physics debate.
« Reply #53 on: February 28, 2016, 06:30:57 PM »
Agree but if I am not much mistaken, the underlying point is there is more to the game than physics - it needs a good online experience or its dead.


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Alby46

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Re: General netcode/physics debate.
« Reply #54 on: February 28, 2016, 07:36:28 PM »
Agree but if I am not much mistaken, the underlying point is there is more to the game than physics - it needs a good online experience or its dead.


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exactly
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Phathry25

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Re: General netcode/physics debate.
« Reply #55 on: February 28, 2016, 11:50:57 PM »
That sprint car model is much worse than the WRS one  8)
And the presentation in general in not very interesting... Footage from old games, a bunch of guys talking, and the driver walking?!?!!?  ???
WRS is 10x times better  :P

10x only?  Don't sell yourself short.

PiBoSo

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Re: General netcode/physics debate.
« Reply #56 on: February 29, 2016, 12:06:12 AM »
That sprint car model is much worse than the WRS one  8)
And the presentation in general in not very interesting... Footage from old games, a bunch of guys talking, and the driver walking?!?!!?  ???
WRS is 10x times better  :P

10x only?  Don't sell yourself short.

 ;D