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General netcode/physics debate.

Started by dareaper46, February 24, 2016, 03:41:04 PM

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PiBoSo

February 24, 2016, 09:38:39 PM #15 Last Edit: February 24, 2016, 09:56:19 PM by PiBoSo
As already explained before, GP Bikes is first of all a motorcycle simulator.
No one would be here supporting the project if it was just another bike game.
If you want to just race online, there's plenty of Milestone games.
So of course physics always took the top spot, because it's what makes GP Bikes unique.
Now, at last, everyone seems to be reasonably happy with the physics and all the planned features have been integrated.
The only exceptions are up/downhill turns and brakes temperature / wear.
Regarding the weird behaviour of the bike when turning downhill, you can be assured there is no "pivot" like in games. The bike is simulated using real forces only.
Please note that physics had priority because of MX Bikes, too.

Now the plan is to keep updating all the projects. There aren't  many tasks left to complete ( and the online crashes are of course part of them ), especially for GPB.
In the meantime, please try to convert the mods to Beta8. There are no plans to change the file format anymore.
"La perfezione non è il nostro obiettivo, è la nostra tendenza".

Blackheart

The netcode in the Milestone's games is very bad  ::)

Vini

Quote from: PiBoSo on February 24, 2016, 09:38:39 PMNow, at last, everyone seems to be reasonably happy with the physics and all the planned features have been integrated.
Apart from the strong wobbles at 30° lean and too much grip at the rear (of the Mura) which leads to a lot of gearbox problems on downshifts (making braking very messy sometimes).
The wobbles only begin to show on the Mura when carrying low fuel (<5L).
Who is testing the bikes before a new beta release and at which track? Victoria is really not sufficient for testing. Almost every bike is smooth there so it's very hard to spot physics problems.

Quote from: PiBoSo on February 24, 2016, 09:38:39 PMThe bike is simulated using real forces only.
I was expecting this from GPB but if the simulation is based on real forces how come the visual result doesn't look real?

Lastly, I am still waiting for your response on the rider fall-off bug.
We had a small discussion there on why it's a bug, why it's problematic and what would need to be changed.


Don't get me wrong, PiBoSo. Beta8 is the best beta so far and it's very fun but progress doesn't stop.

PiBoSo

Quote from: vin97 on February 24, 2016, 10:11:16 PM
Quote from: PiBoSo on February 24, 2016, 09:38:39 PMNow, at last, everyone seems to be reasonably happy with the physics and all the planned features have been integrated.
Apart from the strong wobbles at 30° lean and too much grip at the rear (of the Mura) which leads to a lot of gearbox problems on downshifts (making braking very messy sometimes).
The wobbles only begin to show on the Mura when carrying low fuel (<5L).

Those problems can most likely be fixed with better data, specifically of the tyres and steer damper.
However, the gearbox simulation probably needs work.
"La perfezione non è il nostro obiettivo, è la nostra tendenza".

Blackheart

Quote from: PiBoSo on February 24, 2016, 09:38:39 PM
In the meantime, please try to convert the mods to Beta8. There are no plans to change the file format anymore.

This is a great news!  :D


Hawk

Quote from: PiBoSo on February 24, 2016, 09:38:39 PM
As already explained before, GP Bikes is first of all a motorcycle simulator.
No one would be here supporting the project if it was just another bike game.

That's very true.... as far as I'm concerned it's the very best and one and only true GPbike simulator.  8)

Quote from: PiBoSo on February 24, 2016, 09:38:39 PM
If you want to just race online, there's plenty of Milestone games.


Phffff!!! Milestone games! You must be joking! Lol  :P


Quote from: PiBoSo on February 24, 2016, 09:38:39 PM
So of course physics always took the top spot, because it's what makes GP Bikes unique.

With the online racing being just as important as the physics in our eyes, that statement and hence your priority is just what we cannot understand...... If as much work was being put into the online stability issues as is the physics we'd be more than pleased with everything, but as it is now your building a beautiful piece of art on rocky foundations it seems. Surely it would've  been more harmonious to have worked on both issues at the same time?  :)

Quote from: PiBoSo on February 24, 2016, 09:38:39 PM
Now, at last, everyone seems to be reasonably happy with the physics and all the planned features have been integrated.
The only exceptions are up/downhill turns and brakes temperature / wear.
That's good to know. However, as far as planned features are concerned, what about all the discussion we had about live replay features and live streaming features about a year ago now? I presume they are classed as features? So a little disappointed you have said, "all the planned features have been integrated".  Does this mean those additional feature ideas have been dropped now? :-\

Quote from: PiBoSo on February 24, 2016, 09:38:39 PM
Regarding the weird behaviour of the bike when turning downhill, you can be assured there is no "pivot" like in games. The bike is simulated using real forces only.

That's good to hear.  :)


Quote from: PiBoSo on February 24, 2016, 09:38:39 PM
Now the plan is to keep updating all the projects. There aren't  many tasks left to complete ( and the online crashes are of course part of them ), especially for GPB.

That's good to now, but please, please work on major features that have the biggest issues/bugs first before features that can be implemented at the latter stage of development.  :)

Quote from: PiBoSo on February 24, 2016, 09:38:39 PM
In the meantime, please try to convert the mods to Beta8. There are no plans to change the file format anymore.

I know you've explained why you don't want to do this, but I was still hoping at some stage that you'd be convinced to find a way to allow modders to create and integrate their own rider models and riding styles(which I'd presume would require file format changes too)? I'm absolutely convinced that would be another major + for this great sim.
If that is not at all acceptable/possible, and this is not a priority for us by any means, but please fix those massive feet on the current rider model, they really don't look right at all.  :P ;D

Frustrations are vented at times, but don't get me wrong.... Beta 8 is indeed a great improvement on beta 7 and I'm looking forward to seeing what can be done with the bikemods too.  ;D 8)

Hawk




Napalm Nick

Back in the day when PiBoSo was a nipper


ROFL  ;D

I have nothing intelligent in addition to add to this debate (which is a good sign!)
"The post you are writing has been written at least ten times already in the last 15ish years. Its already been reported, suggested, discussed, ignored or archived (but mostly ignored). Why are you doing it again?"

PiBoSo

Quote from: Hawk on February 24, 2016, 11:39:00 PM
Quote from: PiBoSo on February 24, 2016, 09:38:39 PM
Now, at last, everyone seems to be reasonably happy with the physics and all the planned features have been integrated.
The only exceptions are up/downhill turns and brakes temperature / wear.
That's good to know. However, as far as planned features are concerned, what about all the discussion we had about live replay features and live streaming features about a year ago now? I presume they are classed as features? So a little disappointed you have said, "all the planned features have been integrated".  Does this mean those additional feature ideas have been dropped now? :-\

Physics features. Like ride height and forks offset settings.
"La perfezione non è il nostro obiettivo, è la nostra tendenza".

WALKEN

Piboso,

isn't it safe to say that unless feedback comes from strictly the beta with no mods is an unfair goose chase for you?
Help me, help you!

dareaper46

Quote from: PiBoSo on February 24, 2016, 09:38:39 PM
As already explained before, GP Bikes is first of all a motorcycle simulator.
No one would be here supporting the project if it was just another bike game.
If you want to just race online, there's plenty of Milestone games.
So of course physics always took the top spot, because it's what makes GP Bikes unique.
Now, at last, everyone seems to be reasonably happy with the physics and all the planned features have been integrated.
The only exceptions are up/downhill turns and brakes temperature / wear.
Regarding the weird behaviour of the bike when turning downhill, you can be assured there is no "pivot" like in games. The bike is simulated using real forces only.
Please note that physics had priority because of MX Bikes, too.

Now the plan is to keep updating all the projects. There aren't  many tasks left to complete ( and the online crashes are of course part of them ), especially for GPB.
In the meantime, please try to convert the mods to Beta8. There are no plans to change the file format anymore.

And things like this is something we all want. Just for you to communicate with us. We don't mind waiting, it is a great product, who wouldn't wait for the final version. All we want to know is that the problems we are discovering and that have been discovered are being worked on, and that you are listening to us etc. As WALKEN said, we are more testers than the general public. Use us, take the feedback, use it and make the game a better place :P.

Anyway thanks for the feedback Piboso

h106frp

Quote from: PiBoSo on February 24, 2016, 09:38:39 PM
As already explained before, GP Bikes is first of all a motorcycle simulator.
No one would be here supporting the project if it was just another bike game.
If you want to just race online, there's plenty of Milestone games.
So of course physics always took the top spot, because it's what makes GP Bikes unique.
Now, at last, everyone seems to be reasonably happy with the physics and all the planned features have been integrated.
The only exceptions are up/downhill turns and brakes temperature / wear.
Regarding the weird behaviour of the bike when turning downhill, you can be assured there is no "pivot" like in games. The bike is simulated using real forces only.
Please note that physics had priority because of MX Bikes, too.

Now the plan is to keep updating all the projects. There aren't  many tasks left to complete ( and the online crashes are of course part of them ), especially for GPB.
In the meantime, please try to convert the mods to Beta8. There are no plans to change the file format anymore.

Does this indicate that no further graphical improvements will be made to the the bike models or is it just for the physics modelling?
I would have expected that once the physical simulation is complete and the on-line issues resolved then it would be a chance for a final visual polish and get everything up to 2016 standards prior to release 1.



The suggestions/bug reports still have a lot of open entries

BOBR6 84

I love racing online but i must admit with GPB i would be alot happier to see a serious simulator at the end of it all.. even if it meant multiplayer took the back seat.. so im kinda happy reading this thread  ;D

personally though i think there is lots to do before it becomes a serious simulator. sure there is lot's of things about it which are VERY realistic! but also lots of things which stop me from being blown away by it.

All in all though i find it pretty incredible what piboso has achieved so far and i prey he carries on!

Hawk

Quote from: ptrshpt on February 25, 2016, 03:30:49 PM
Quote from: PiBoSo on January 21, 2015, 03:00:31 PM
Quote from: Klax75 on January 21, 2015, 02:53:56 PM
Any chance of a rider position editor? To make different times of riding styles?

There is a chance, but it's a small one.

Quote from: Hawk on February 24, 2016, 11:39:00 PM

I know you've explained why you don't want to do this, but I was still hoping at some stage that you'd be convinced to find a way to allow modders to create and integrate their own rider models and riding styles(which I'd presume would require file format changes too)? I'm absolutely convinced that would be another major + for this great sim.

Hawk

Quote from: PiBoSo on December 31, 2015, 12:35:09 PM
Quote from: Hawk on December 31, 2015, 10:55:12 AM
Good points Yohji!  ;)
This is another good reason for Piboso to give us the capability to custom create our own rider models and animations.  He has no plans to do this, but hopefully in the future he will see that it is the way to go so that it will free-up modders ability to provide different rider models and animations to suit whatever creations we would like to build. :)

Hawk.

It's not just the rider animations.
The rider movements should be simulated in the physics, too.

What are you pointing out here ptrshpt? You have no comment?  :)

Hawk.

Grooveski

I first got into GPB on Beta6 and it was a lesson in frustration. 
Was fine at first but as I got quicker it turned into a washout/runaway bike cycle that my patience couldn't deal with so I gave up on it.

Guess my point is that I wasn't even close to going online(and I'm as big a fan of online racing as the next guy). 
For me the time has been spent on the right issues.  The wee rider dude leans forward now, it's a fair bit easier to stay upright and the bike doesn't do half a lap without me after a spill.  B8 feels like a huge step forward.   ;D

Of course now I'll probably play it to the point where I do feel ready to go online - so have all these other problems still to come.   :P
...but at least I will be playing it again. ;)

Hawk

Quote from: Grooveski on February 25, 2016, 07:27:53 PM
I first got into GPB on Beta6 and it was a lesson in frustration. 
Was fine at first but as I got quicker it turned into a washout/runaway bike cycle that my patience couldn't deal with so I gave up on it.

Guess my point is that I wasn't even close to going online(and I'm as big a fan of online racing as the next guy). 
For me the time has been spent on the right issues.  The wee rider dude leans forward now, it's a fair bit easier to stay upright and the bike doesn't do half a lap without me after a spill.  B8 feels like a huge step forward.   ;D

Of course now I'll probably play it to the point where I do feel ready to go online - so have all these other problems still to come.   :P
...but at least I will be playing it again. ;)

You should come and join us online mate, no matter what standard you are.... it's all good fun and you'd be very welcomed.  ;) 8)

Hawk.