AI, ROBOT, Ability to play against the Computer.

[asic_designer]

Hi All

   I know this is a gaming simulator designed to target hardcore gamers who love motogp, and motorcycles in general, however there is another group of individuals that would benefit immensely from this simulator, engineers!  This is a simulator and not just an arcade game, it is designed to simulate/emulate the real world physics of the sport or activity and it seems like it does a really good job!  Engineers would love to use this simulator for SiL (Software in the Loop) and HiL (Hardware in the Loop) simulations to test various types of embedded systems, ie safety systems, control systems, etc. 

  As engineers we are always thinking of ways to automate a process to maximize our efficiency and productivity.  So when we run a HiL or SiL simulation using a simulator like this one we would like to be able to automate this as well and this would be very easy to accomplish if the simulator provided the user with the ability to use a embedded robot to control the vehicle during a race, basically the ability to allow the computer to race for you or the ability to race against the computer.  This may or may not be interesting to gamers but engineers would love it!  Don't get me wrong my guys would love to be in the lab playing video games all day, LOL, but I don't think this is a very productive use of their time at work, LOL.

   As it stands now this is what they have to do when they want to use a simulator like this and run a SiL, or HiL simulation, and it would be really helpful if we did not have to do this.  The computer would perform better, in almost every way and we would get better data faster.  Don't get me wrong I like the game, but I'm not a gamer, haven't played a video game since StreetFighter II Turbo, LOL.  I've been trying to play GPB now for a few days, and I haven't been able to get around the track once without falling several times!  In fact I don't think I've made a complete circle of the track yet, LOL.  You can imagine how frustrating this could be if all you are trying to do is generate live data to test your embedded control systems and algorithms.

   I know its pathetic, PiBoso help us please, LOL!  Just a hopeful suggestion.

[PiBoSo]

Creating a robot that can ride the simulated bike around a track is possible.
However, it would require work. A considerable amount of time should be invested to add this feature, that would only be beneficial for you and very few others.
If your message is just a suggestion, then unfortunately it's probably never going to happen.
If, on the other hand, you have a solid project with a budget to invest on it, then it's possible, if you have the patience to wait a few weeks.

Hopefully this message doesn't sound too greedy... But really this is mostly a one-man show busy on multiple projects at the same time.

[asic_designer]

Hi

   Thanks for responding, and no I don't think you came off as greedy, we will definitely give your offer some thought, it might be worth it. 

   Still, I don't think it would only be engineers that benefit from this feature.  This seems like a pretty standard feature of most games, I know this game is built around a great community that is very active, but the ability to race the cpu would attractive to newbies, and also great for training.

[PiBoSo]

Hi

   Thanks for responding, and no I don't think you came off as greedy, we will definitely give your offer some thought, it might be worth it. 

   Still, I don't think it would only be engineers that benefit from this feature.  This seems like a pretty standard feature of most games, I know this game is built around a great community that is very active, but the ability to race the cpu would attractive to newbies, and also great for training.

A full fledged AI would go way further what you need... Not only it would have to be competitive at the limit, but it would also have to take the other bikes into consideration, and overtake them or change line and adapt to it while still pushing at the limit. It would also have to handle different setups and handle the different sessions, for the example the different stints during a practice session.

[PiBoSo]

Hi

   Thanks for responding, and no I don't think you came off as greedy, we will definitely give your offer some thought, it might be worth it. 

   Still, I don't think it would only be engineers that benefit from this feature.  This seems like a pretty standard feature of most games, I know this game is built around a great community that is very active, but the ability to race the cpu would attractive to newbies, and also great for training.

A full fledged AI would go way further what you need... Not only it would have to be competitive at the limit, but it would also have to take the other bikes into consideration, and overtake them or change line and adapt to it while still pushing at the limit. It would also have to handle different setups and handle the different sessions, for the example the different stints during a practice session.

A good AI would also need to make realistic mistakes every once in a while...
Last but not least, the bike simulation is too complex to allow for a grid of competitors. So the only solution would be to make a second, much simpler, physics model, that still uses the same data as the full one.

[Blackheart]

Also I think in gbp it would be nice to have an IA, especially to learn a new track. When there is not a lot of people online, it is essential to have a mode for offline races. 

[Vini]

I think most of us would already be happy if the MXB 'helper' ghost rider would make it to GPB.
It would be a really good tool to learn the best lines on a track.
........Probably more useful in GPB than it is in MXB.

[doubledragoncc]

This seems to be a major conversation point all over the forum right now, not just here. As you are here Piboso and putting some really good points across about AI, may I ask a few quick questions that would answer a lot for many members of the forum.

Firstly, is the Trainer in MXB possible in GPB and if so could you do it for the next release?

Secondly, would you consider adding AI, IF it is possible for the many actual GPB riders that would like it and to cater for those that have not purchased GPB due to the lack of AI.

I fully understand your reasoning for not wanting AI in GPB due to the possible "Arcade" title it may give GPB.

A trainer is the more realistic way to help new riders as it is for the bettering of their own riding, not a gimmick and not arcade in any way.

Thanks for any response on this.

Back to the Robotic point and what you say is so true. The amount of variables a robot would have to understand and then react accordingly to is extreme  to say the least.  The mechanics are simple enough, but the correct programming would be a masterpiece to itself. All the points you have noted are only the beginning of it all. How could GPB be able to communicate every aspect that is happening to another computer when the human input is made due to visual information only? The robot would have to be reading every point of information and be able to understand what it means. What I mean is, if I am riding in GPB my reaction is due to me seeing another bike making a certain move and judging where it is going, to teach a computer to JUDGE movement from present data is the thing that gets me. THat is REAL AI as the computer has to think if the bike is here and taking this line it is going to go there, but what if the other rider suddenly breaks or this or that, so many variables for it to handle???

Mind blowing amounts of data bro

DD

[PiBoSo]

Secondly, would you consider adding AI, IF it is possible for the many actual GPB riders that would like it and to cater for those that have not purchased GPB due to the lack of AI.

I fully understand your reasoning for not wanting AI in GPB due to the possible "Arcade" title it may give GPB.

The main reason for not integrating AI is that it would be a colossal amount of work, to have something that would probably end up not very good anyway.

[doubledragoncc]

Thanks Piboso fully understand that and should stop requests for it lol.

And more importantly the Trainer for GPB. I did a test with the S80 on Croft in MXB and it felt really good to see how I was taking a certain line riding behind and then correcting it, even if the bike had no wheels and I had an Orangutan sitting behind me lol.

Can we get it in GPB? PLEASE

DD

[Meyer#12]

I agree on the trainee being a good thing in GPB for many riders, people who are not used to racing motorbikes might find it little hard to get around a track on the fastest line, since it is actually quite different lines from cars and also very different lines depending on what bike you ride. I see many riders doing a ton of laps, without really finding much better lines and i think this could help, and this also goes in real life. In real life you on many trackdays have a master rider for the "slower classes" who will wear a yellow vest and show the lines or you can hire a rider to help with setup and on track.

In GPB, we of course help eachother online, but when there is no one online,  this could be a good thing or if you feel like practicing before you go online, to not disturb or something, then the trainer would be a good thing i think

[asic_designer]

I agree with the "trainer" request.  This would be sufficient for everyone's needs.  A complete AI may perhaps be too complex, however just a simple robot/trainer which can navigate a track fast efficiently would be great.  This would suit our needs definitely, just so long as we can tap into and pull data from the trainer, and have it run independently, itself on the track.

[Vini]

I agree with the "trainer" request.  This would be sufficient for everyone's needs.

IMO, a ghost rider (without AI) would already be enough.
The really fast guys could just share their replay files so that everyone can learn their lines offline without the need for an actual AI figuring out the fastest line (which would probably be slower for most tracks anyway).

[Blackheart]

A nice feature would be the possibility to load multiple ghosts/trainers 

[Klax75]

I would like a Ghost Rider, to help me work on DST. So I can do laps riding with myself to see how much lean angle I am getting what my lines are on track. If I can lean it over more. This would help me a lot. Not really interested in AI racing.