Author Topic: R.I.P. RFactor, Hello WRS?  (Read 3840 times)

bison160

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R.I.P. RFactor, Hello WRS?
« on: April 22, 2016, 05:01:11 AM »
Well Rfactor is seeing people leave like no other thanks to a cheating vulnerability that has been exposed. Not going to go into it but to s of people have been caught using it. It has caused quite the stir in the RF community and many are saying they are done. Now is the time to make WRS a viable option for THE dirt sim moving forward.

Looks like you may have finally caught a break PiBoSo! Let's do this!

HornetMaX

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Re: R.I.P. RFactor, Hello WRS?
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2016, 06:40:00 AM »
As soon as WRS (or whichever other game) becomes as popular as rFactor, cheats will join the party.
Sad but inevitable.

matty0l215

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Re: R.I.P. RFactor, Hello WRS?
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2016, 09:29:06 AM »
Can you really cheat this game? Nobodys found a way so far surley. Defenetly not in GP Bikes .

HornetMaX

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Re: R.I.P. RFactor, Hello WRS?
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2016, 09:52:58 AM »
Can you really cheat this game? Nobodys found a way so far surley. Defenetly not in GP Bikes .
Just because nobody has tried.

If I had to bet if GPB is more or less protected than rFactor, I'd surely put the money on rFactor (it's not a critic to GPB, of course).

PiBoSo

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Re: R.I.P. RFactor, Hello WRS?
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2016, 10:14:01 AM »
Can you really cheat this game? Nobodys found a way so far surley. Defenetly not in GP Bikes .
Just because nobody has tried.

If I had to bet if GPB is more or less protected than rFactor, I'd surely put the money on rFactor (it's not a critic to GPB, of course).

And you would lose the bet, for two simple reasons:
1) WRS has been designed from the start to avoid cheating
2) WRS, unlike rFactor, is still under development, and this means that it's possible to integrate countermeasures if someone tries to cheat
Obviously your ambition outweighs your talent

HornetMaX

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Re: R.I.P. RFactor, Hello WRS?
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2016, 10:28:56 AM »
If I had to bet if GPB is more or less protected than rFactor, I'd surely put the money on rFactor (it's not a critic to GPB, of course).

And you would lose the bet, for two simple reasons:
1) WRS has been designed from the start to avoid cheating
2) WRS, unlike rFactor, is still under development, and this means that it's possible to integrate countermeasures if someone tries to cheat
Losing bets happens, it's part of the game. I'd still take it though.

Point 1, nice to hear, but rFactor would just say the same.
Point 2 is mooth, sorry. Once WRS is in v1, it will be in the same situation as rFactor. Nothing prevents rFactor from sending out a patch if they want.
And by the way you're implicitly saying that the countermeasures are not yet in WRS ... which kind of proves my point.

But if people drop rFactor for WRS I'm anything but sad :)

Hawk

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Re: R.I.P. RFactor, Hello WRS?
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2016, 10:36:32 AM »
They say these RAM cheats are undetectable? Why is that?
Couldn't the sim periodically check certain values in RAM against the same value in the protected original files to check if there is anything fishy going on in RAM memory?

Cheats should be strung up by their balls as well as being named and shamed in the sim community...

Cheats make my blood boil big time!  >:( >:(

Hawk.

HornetMaX

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Re: R.I.P. RFactor, Hello WRS?
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2016, 10:39:02 AM »
Cheats should be strung up by their balls as well as being named and shamed in the sim community...
Agreed.

PiBoSo

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Re: R.I.P. RFactor, Hello WRS?
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2016, 10:50:20 AM »
Point 1, nice to hear, but rFactor would just say the same.

???
Do you have info to say that ISI designed rFactor with cheating in mind? Or are you implying that all developers just straight up lie? ???

Quote
Point 2 is mooth, sorry. Once WRS is in v1, it will be in the same situation as rFactor. Nothing prevents rFactor from sending out a patch if they want.
And by the way you're implicitly saying that the countermeasures are not yet in WRS ... which kind of proves my point.

No.
The message should be read as: even if cheaters find a way to exploit WRS ( and this is unlikely ), a patch can be released.
ISI will not send out a patch for rFactor1, since they moved to rFactor2.
bison160 is talking about dirt, and the dirt community is still on rFactor1.
Obviously your ambition outweighs your talent

HornetMaX

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Re: R.I.P. RFactor, Hello WRS?
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2016, 11:05:59 AM »
Point 1, nice to hear, but rFactor would just say the same.

???
Do you have info to say that ISI designed rFactor with cheating in mind? Or are you implying that all developers just straight up lie? ???
Some developers lie for sure. But mostly, all the commercials, marketing and PR people lie. It's their job :)
No developer of a large scale game with online capability will ever come out and say "No, our game was not designed keeping cheating in mind. We forgot that, sorry.".

The message should be read as: even if cheaters find a way to exploit WRS ( and this is unlikely ), a patch can be released.
ISI will not send out a patch for rFactor1, since they moved to rFactor2.
It's all up to them and you could be in the same situation if you ever decide to release WRS 1 and then do a major overhaul for a WRS 2 (or even release WRS and after a while stop support for whichever reason). I'm not saying what you said is wrong, I'm just saying it's not a big argument for not taking the bet.

I'd go softly with statements about how strong WRS is: it has been proved in the past that this just attracts hackers that inevitably cracks the thing wide open (and I'm not talking games only here, but much heavier stuff).

@Hawk: if you want to check a value in RAM, against what will you check it ? Another copy of it in RAM ? That wouldn't help a lot.
Against a value in a file ? That's slow and the file could be modified on the fly too (eventually after the initial read).
There are things that can be done, but unfortunately hackers are good at what they do. Very good.
Most of the time I blame them less than the stupid players that do pay for a hack: at least a hacker has some technical skills.

PiBoSo

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Re: R.I.P. RFactor, Hello WRS?
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2016, 11:18:56 AM »
I'd go softly with statements about how strong WRS is: it has been proved in the past that this just attracts hackers that inevitably cracks the thing wide open (and I'm not talking games only here, but much heavier stuff).

:facepalm:
Hopefully you understand how annoying you are with your attitude, treating everyone as liars or morons...  ::)
Of course WRS or any other simulator / game would be a piece of cake for any serious hacker. The point of "this is unlikely" is that it is very unlikely that hackers will even bother to try to hack WRS and, even if they do, they will find some resistance.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 11:22:02 AM by PiBoSo »
Obviously your ambition outweighs your talent

Hawk

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Re: R.I.P. RFactor, Hello WRS?
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2016, 11:19:10 AM »

@Hawk: if you want to check a value in RAM, against what will you check it ? Another copy of it in RAM ? That wouldn't help a lot.
Against a value in a file ? That's slow and the file could be modified on the fly too (eventually after the initial read).
There are things that can be done, but unfortunately hackers are good at what they do. Very good.
Most of the time I blame them less than the stupid players that do pay for a hack: at least a hacker has some technical skills.

I'd have thought that if a dev programmed the checking on a lesser used thread(multi-thread programming) it surely wouldn't have any noticable slowing effect on the whole app?

Also if the original files have a signature that would change if any alterations are made to them, then surely the original files can be relied on for a comparison of any changes in RAM - I'm talking about comparing current simulated controller values(ie, brake controller input values) against the base sim formula factors(that stay the same) and see what the resultant value should be compared to what the value was shown in the running game? Just ideas off the top of my head with little knowledge of how things work in programming in reality.  ;) :)

EDIT: In effect a simulation within a simulation but only on a small part of the simulation run just periodically and randomly in the background to compare resultant values that the user has input against the value the background sim results show from original data.
 
Hawk.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2016, 11:23:56 AM by Hawk »

HornetMaX

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Re: R.I.P. RFactor, Hello WRS?
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2016, 11:38:03 AM »
:facepalm:
Hopefully you understand how annoying you are with your attitude, treating everyone as liars or morons...  ::)
Yawn. Where exactly I treated you as a moron ? Nah, don't bother, it's OK. Another friendly poke I guess.

The point of "this is unlikely" is that it is very unlikely that hackers will even bother to try to hack WRS and, even if they do, they will find some resistance.
All good then. But your original statement was a bit different (or at least could easily be interpreted differently):

The message should be read as: even if cheaters find a way to exploit WRS ( and this is unlikely ), a patch can be released.

PiBoSo

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Re: R.I.P. RFactor, Hello WRS?
« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2016, 12:07:56 PM »
:facepalm:
Hopefully you understand how annoying you are with your attitude, treating everyone as liars or morons...  ::)
Yawn. Where exactly I treated you as a moron ? Nah, don't bother, it's OK. Another friendly poke I guess.

The point of "this is unlikely" is that it is very unlikely that hackers will even bother to try to hack WRS and, even if they do, they will find some resistance.
All good then. But your original statement was a bit different (or at least could easily be interpreted differently):

The message should be read as: even if cheaters find a way to exploit WRS ( and this is unlikely ), a patch can be released.

You are treating others like morons when you assume that no one else understands how cheaters and hackers work.
Anyway, this conversation is just a waste of time. The focus for me must be on releasing WRS beta9, not replying to someone who seems to entertain himself with pointless forum discussions.
Obviously your ambition outweighs your talent

HornetMaX

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Re: R.I.P. RFactor, Hello WRS?
« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2016, 12:17:41 PM »
You are treating others like morons when you assume that no one else understands how cheaters and hackers work.
Anyway, this conversation is just a waste of time. The focus for me must be on releasing WRS beta9, not replying to someone who seems to entertain himself with pointless forum discussions.
You joined the discussion spontaneously, I didn't call you in.

As always, you've a goddamn real talent to turn good news for you (people leaving rFactor, WRS being strong on anti-cheat measures etc.) into hate towards (some of) your customers.
Just delete the posts, as always.