Author Topic: Ever heard of "Push Steering"? - Don't try this at home!!  (Read 3069 times)

Hawk

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Ever heard of "Push Steering"? - Don't try this at home!!
« on: December 22, 2013, 08:13:12 PM »
Push Steering - Apparently used to change direction quickly at speed on a motorcycle - Could be handy for taking chicanes at high speed....

I wonder if this could be implemented into GP Bikes? Hehe :P ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivwZ_DEFHrc

Stout Johnson

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Re: Ever heard of "Push Steering"? - Don't try this at home!!
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2013, 08:26:25 PM »
I think this is already possible if you are bad-ass enough to manually control L/R rider lean  ;D  I didn't watch the whole video but I think on race tracks this is only useful for rare situations where you would have to make fast steering changes and return to your initial course... the only tracks I can think of right now where you could use that, would be Assen last chicane and the corkscrew....
« Last Edit: December 22, 2013, 08:28:21 PM by Stout Johnson »
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HornetMaX

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Re: Ever heard of "Push Steering"? - Don't try this at home!!
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2013, 08:46:25 PM »
Uh ... he's just explaining counter-steering or am I missing something ?

That's used all the time, on track and on roads, by bikes and bicycles.
Every bike/bicycle rider uses counter-steering, but most of them just are not aware.

It's explained very clearly in many places around the web, Wikipedia for example: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-steering

MaX.

P.S.
When I got my bike driving license (in france) I had to practice this.

Warlock

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Re: Ever heard of "Push Steering"? - Don't try this at home!!
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2013, 09:21:55 PM »
Uh ... he's just explaining counter-steering or am I missing something ?

That's used all the time, on track and on roads, by bikes and bicycles.
Every bike/bicycle rider uses counter-steering, but most of them just are not aware.


Exactly

oppolo

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Re: Ever heard of "Push Steering"? - Don't try this at home!!
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2013, 11:21:25 PM »
yes, I am used to drive motorbike and when I drive a quad of my friend, first minutes are terrible, there is a serious risk of going to rigth instead of left because in a quad there is the same handbar of a motorbike.

GPB: our device controls the handbar when in neutral, when one gear is ingaged automatically pass to control the lean

Klax75

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Re: Ever heard of "Push Steering"? - Don't try this at home!!
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2014, 10:06:11 AM »
I think this is already possible if you are bad-ass enough to manually control L/R rider lean  ;D  I didn't watch the whole video but I think on race tracks this is only useful for rare situations where you would have to make fast steering changes and return to your initial course... the only tracks I can think of right now where you could use that, would be Assen last chicane and the corkscrew....

I use Manual controls, no assist, and full manual lean. On the straights at hockenhiem I tried it out. Letting go of the steering and just using my body leaning left and right, the bike will turn but it's very slight, but it does start veering off to one side, and then lean to the other side and you will start going that way.

HornetMaX

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Re: Ever heard of "Push Steering"? - Don't try this at home!!
« Reply #6 on: January 29, 2014, 10:27:49 AM »
I think this is already possible if you are bad-ass enough to manually control L/R rider lean  ;D  I didn't watch the whole video but I think on race tracks this is only useful for rare situations where you would have to make fast steering changes and return to your initial course... the only tracks I can think of right now where you could use that, would be Assen last chicane and the corkscrew....

I use Manual controls, no assist, and full manual lean. On the straights at hockenhiem I tried it out. Letting go of the steering and just using my body leaning left and right, the bike will turn but it's very slight, but it does start veering off to one side, and then lean to the other side and you will start going that way.
What do you mean by "letting go of the steering" ? If you leave the steering stick centered (I guess that's what you do), the steering is not free: GPB "virtual rider" will still control the handlebars, trying to keep the bike vertical.

Just tried on Victoria (with manual lean): I'd say no steering, there may be just a tiny steering but could be due to other things.

The only way to test this in GPB is to use direct steering  = 1 (not direct lean, that's a different thing) as described here: http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=28.msg42#msg42: with
that you will be able to "let the handlebar go" (i.e. apply no torque on it).

However, there's no need to confirm: it is indeed possible to steer a bike moving your body. Most of the time however the explanation of why you can do it is not the one you can find around (e.g. leaning left/right changes the cog: that's true, but that does not explain it).

MaX.

branney

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Re: Ever heard of "Push Steering"? - Don't try this at home!!
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2014, 11:48:04 AM »
Is it this?
Moving body to one side causes bike to move to other side. Tyres resist this motion but in doing so a torque is applied to front stem, so wheel turns slightly to same side as rider. Due to the already changed centre of gravity this causes/allows bike to turn in same direction as wheel just turned

HornetMaX

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Re: Ever heard of "Push Steering"? - Don't try this at home!!
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2014, 01:52:15 PM »
Is it this?
Moving body to one side causes bike to move to other side. Tyres resist this motion but in doing so a torque is applied to front stem, so wheel turns slightly to same side as rider. Due to the already changed centre of gravity this causes/allows bike to turn in same direction as wheel just turned

Hmmm, no.

Counter steering is just the fact that to initiate a left turn (above very slow speeds) you first have to turn the handlebar right: this will make the bike turn slightly to the right, generating a centrifugal force that will make the bike lean left and, due to the geometry of the front, finally starting to turn left.

The fact you can steer a bike with your hands off the handlebar is partially explained by what you wrote: you lean your torso right , by reaction the bike leans left and due to the front geometry the steering heads turns left or right (depending on the geometry).

MaX. 

branney

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Re: Ever heard of "Push Steering"? - Don't try this at home!!
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2014, 02:21:23 PM »
Sorry i meant to say is that how no-hands works!
Counter steering works just fine without even thinking, and can be so slight to initiate a turn, which is probably why people are not aware they were even doing it. For a quicker turn it feels like i counter steer to throw my weight quicker, and after that the brain simply rebalances everything, by which time physics of the rest of the system has combined with the rebalancing to perfectly follow the sequence you described!

HornetMaX

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Re: Ever heard of "Push Steering"? - Don't try this at home!!
« Reply #10 on: February 11, 2014, 10:30:44 PM »
Sorry i meant to say is that how no-hands works!
OK !

Counter steering works just fine without even thinking,

...

and after that the brain simply rebalances everything,
That's because before being able to ride a bike, you learnt how to ride a bicycle, and that was not straightforward.
One you can ride a bicycle, the behaviour of a motorbike is less unexpected, so your brain has less troubles with it.

MaX.

P.S.
Talking about strange brain-related stuff, Ive been today into a popular attraction in Edinburgh called Camera Obscura.
It has plenty of optical illusions / surprising things (mostly well known).

One of the tricks however is just amazing: a pipe (or tube) 3m diameter is horizontal and spinning. On its inside a spiral like pattern is painted and a fix walkaway allow you to walk inside the cylinder in the darkness (only light available comes from the cylinder inner surface). Even knowing before entering that the walkaway is fix and it does not move, as soon as you enter it, the spinning patterns make your brain think you are moving. The illusion is so strong that you actually fell a force pushing you, as if the floor was indeed rotating: you have to grab the handlebar on your left ! I'm not exactly a noob in terms of optical/brain illusions, but this one is amazing !

The video sucks, but gives you an idea:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ce2qOcSTEvA" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/Ce2qOcSTEvA</a>