Author Topic: GPB/WRS Handling on Kerbs  (Read 4003 times)

Corrie

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GPB/WRS Handling on Kerbs
« on: July 04, 2016, 05:39:27 AM »
Hi, everyone. I'm developing some content that I hope to add in for WRS/GPB, and I'm wondering if any of you have advice for it. Currently, and in the knowledge of KRP's kerbs, the handling is quite unstable on fully modeled kerbs. However, since karts have no suspension, it makes me wonder if the vehicles with suspension work in the same way. I have 3 types of kerbs that are commonly used on racing circuits. The first (far left) is what is found at circuits like Catalunya, Monza, etc. It's a saw-toothed kerb that recesses into the ground, rather than protruding. I have heard that these kerbs are preferred by real riders. The next two are what are seen at Abu Dhabi, the one in the middle being used as an exit kerb while the one on the far right is used on the inside edge. What are your opinions on these types of kerbs, and what  works best for the sims? The circuits are fantasy circuits, so the input is mostly to get an optimal design that is user-friendly. Also, if any of you have a type of kerb that works well, would you mind sharing the info?

Thanks!

Warlock

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Re: GPB/WRS Handling on Kerbs
« Reply #1 on: July 04, 2016, 02:43:34 PM »
None of the toohed kerbs will work with GPB, i mean you will crash once u touch them.

Im doing a single triangled shape that is 5cm height in the outside part and 0 height where it touches the asphalt, works very well.


Corrie

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Re: GPB/WRS Handling on Kerbs
« Reply #2 on: July 04, 2016, 02:45:18 PM »
What about outside? In KRP, we had a track where the far left kerb was used for the exit - it worked well as an exit kerb. Will that type of design (only used on the outside) work? or is it too disruptive to the handling?

Warlock

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Re: GPB/WRS Handling on Kerbs
« Reply #3 on: July 04, 2016, 02:50:55 PM »
Is the protruding mesh what makes the bikes crash, every single protruding edge will make you crash if the wheels touch it when leaning.
Even a non smoothed track surface will do the same.

They look very nice indeed, but won't be fun touching them when riding.
You could see this in Mugello track (just an example), pick a bike and have a little ride over those kerbs, you will figure out what work or not  ;)

Corrie

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Re: GPB/WRS Handling on Kerbs
« Reply #4 on: July 04, 2016, 02:53:24 PM »
Ok  ;) Thanks for the advice. Might put a transparent layer over the outside kerbs - it keeps the looks, with a flat plane on top - I'll give Mugello a try

Warlock

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Re: GPB/WRS Handling on Kerbs
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2016, 03:03:17 PM »
Ok  ;) Thanks for the advice. Might put a transparent layer over the outside kerbs - it keeps the looks, with a flat plane on top - I'll give Mugello a try

Not a bad idea, don't forget to name that layer TRKKERB to get a bit lower grip and kerb sound  :)

Corrie

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Re: GPB/WRS Handling on Kerbs
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2016, 03:04:22 PM »
Did that for a few KRP tracks - thanks for the advice!

BOBR6 84

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Re: GPB/WRS Handling on Kerbs
« Reply #7 on: July 04, 2016, 04:52:19 PM »
What track is it warlock??  :) and ooohhh a 600  8)

Hawk

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Re: GPB/WRS Handling on Kerbs
« Reply #8 on: July 04, 2016, 06:40:20 PM »
Makes me wonder if the tyre model is detailed enough in GPB to cope with the type of surfaces that ribbed kerbs present to a motorcycle? I haven't a clue how detailed it is, but certainly the tyres don't react as they should do on the more exaggerated ribbed kerbs designed more for cars than a motorcycle....... But I'd also add that most kerbs I've seen modelled certainly seem to me to be way over-scale in the height of the actual kerb ribs which certainly won't help a bike to be stable when the tyre rides over them. What do you guys think?

But I've done some kerb tests with the kerbs designs from Assen and I've modelled them to scale and they do seem to ride well for bikes, so.....

Hawk.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 06:26:13 PM by Hawk »

LauZzZn

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Re: GPB/WRS Handling on Kerbs
« Reply #9 on: July 04, 2016, 06:53:12 PM »
I absolutely agree with you.

Warlock

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Re: GPB/WRS Handling on Kerbs
« Reply #10 on: July 04, 2016, 07:55:09 PM »
What track is it warlock??  :) and ooohhh a 600  8)

Is a fantasy one i'm working on to learn all this stuff , will take a long time doing it from scratch    :)

Makes me wonder if the tyre model is detailed enough in GPB to cope with the type of surfaces that ribbed kerbs present to a motorcycle? I haven't a clue how detailed it is, but certainly the tyres don't react as they should do on the more exaggerated ribbed kerbs designed more for cars than a motorcycle....... But I'd also add that most kerbs I've seen modelled certainly seem to me to be way over-scale in the height of the actual kerb ribs which certainly won't help a bike to be stable when the tyre rides over them. What do you guys think?

But I've done some kerb tests with the kerbs designs from Assen and I've modelled them to scale and they do see to ride well for bikes, so.....

Hawk.

Agree and only Piboso can put some light on this. We see every day how a single poly edge on the track surface makes the bike crash, on ribbed kerbs can only be worse.

Dont know if the tyre go over the edges assuming is an 1mm grip pad so you lose all grip, or the wheel just jump on them and loses contact with the asphalt.

In both cases maybe the tyre is not deforming enough , who knows, im just thinking out loud.

Hawk

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Re: GPB/WRS Handling on Kerbs
« Reply #11 on: July 04, 2016, 11:12:58 PM »
What track is it warlock??  :) and ooohhh a 600  8)

Is a fantasy one i'm working on to learn all this stuff , will take a long time doing it from scratch    :)

Makes me wonder if the tyre model is detailed enough in GPB to cope with the type of surfaces that ribbed kerbs present to a motorcycle? I haven't a clue how detailed it is, but certainly the tyres don't react as they should do on the more exaggerated ribbed kerbs designed more for cars than a motorcycle....... But I'd also add that most kerbs I've seen modelled certainly seem to me to be way over-scale in the height of the actual kerb ribs which certainly won't help a bike to be stable when the tyre rides over them. What do you guys think?

But I've done some kerb tests with the kerbs designs from Assen and I've modelled them to scale and they do see to ride well for bikes, so.....

Hawk.

Agree and only Piboso can put some light on this. We see every day how a single poly edge on the track surface makes the bike crash, on ribbed kerbs can only be worse.

Dont know if the tyre go over the edges assuming is an 1mm grip pad so you lose all grip, or the wheel just jump on them and loses contact with the asphalt.

In both cases maybe the tyre is not deforming enough , who knows, im just thinking out loud.

That's exactly what I think too mate.  ;)

Maybe someone could tell us if the tyre model does actually include calculations for tyre deformation and the altered grip and handling characteristics that would come from that?  :)

Hawk.

Corrie

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Re: GPB/WRS Handling on Kerbs
« Reply #12 on: July 05, 2016, 12:20:32 AM »
I think that's true - height is probably the biggest difference with those types of kerbs. I'll test around with it! I'm terrible driving in GPB, so things are probably going to be more on the cautious side.

HornetMaX

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Re: GPB/WRS Handling on Kerbs
« Reply #13 on: July 05, 2016, 07:17:44 AM »
Simulating properly the trye-kerb contact is a monster of a task. Usually you have only one contact patch, but on a "ribbed kerb" (don't know if that's the actual terminology) you can have more contact patches.
Also, tyre deformation is very local when you hit the edge of the kerb.

First sight, this level of detail is out of reach.

If people really wan to test stuff out, you could just create a long straight with kerb instead of flat asphalt and see already how the bike handles when riding on it straight, not leaning.

But just looking at a few random images, the kerbs seems to be much less saw-toothed in real motogp tracks then what we sometimes see in GPB tracks: https://www.google.fr/search?q=motogp+kerbs&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=993&site=webhp&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjN3OG149vNAhXKOxoKHSufAqYQsAQINg

Hawk

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Re: GPB/WRS Handling on Kerbs
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2016, 10:07:08 AM »

But just looking at a few random images, the kerbs seems to be much less saw-toothed in real motogp tracks then what we sometimes see in GPB tracks: https://www.google.fr/search?q=motogp+kerbs&espv=2&biw=1920&bih=993&site=webhp&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjN3OG149vNAhXKOxoKHSufAqYQsAQINg

Hence I did this quite a while ago....
But I've done some kerb tests with the kerbs designs from Assen and I've modelled them to scale and they do seem to ride well for bikes, so.....

Hawk.

But still the bike doesn't seem to handle as it should on any ribbed type kerbs and I think that is maybe because of the lack of detail in the tyre deformity model?

Hawk.
« Last Edit: July 31, 2016, 06:28:53 PM by Hawk »