"File Encryption Tool" for modders use......

[Vini]

Am I missing something here?

[Blackheart]

Summary of this discussion:

Vin has modified for curiosity and fun a bike  (project X ?  )

Hawk says "this is bad! I want a new tool because It is not his bike!!"

Seriously ... but what you're talking 

Let me give an example, long ago Allen had created its own version of the old NR750 0.4 with different sounds/engine/phisics

This: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ0kG6DQFAc

He had published and I made him remove it, because the author was me. When I had time I tested his version, I used some of his changes to create the v.1.0, its a mix of the work of 3 people.

And he is in the credits as co-author of the mod like me and Matty. This for me is a community victory. I can understand
may annoy that others are working on their own project, but if there are good results ... why not? 

[HornetMaX]

What happens if encryption kicks in: a few "pro" modders come and good paid-for mods may appear. One day one of them makes a truly exceptional bike, perfect handling and all, really the showcase bike for GPB, and he sells it for whichever price.

Of course, all the other modders are very interested in the details of how he achieved this and go asking to him.
Now the chap has a choice: openly explain to essentially everybody what he did or keep the secret sauce for himself, bake a few other bikes and keep on making money.
I don't give many chances for option 1 here. Same applies for tracks.

Moddig (to me) should be like open software: you do stuff for the community, for free (or for an upfront funding of your work, that's not the same as selling).
You are the author but when you put your software out, you ship the source too and others are free to modify it provided that they credit you (and they make their source available too).

Since GPB has been moddable we've seen plenty of modders say things like "I'm angry because Mr.X stole/used/modified my stuff, he should have asked me".
And that's true, but are we really sure that if Mr.X had asked permission, the answer would have been positive ? I'm not.

As Blackheart has just shown with the 750/Allen story, modders become instantly jealous of what they do. The guy (Allen) modified the sound of the bike (the sound !) and Blackheart asked him to remove the mod ... what's the point ?!?!? The bike was out, he changed the sounds, where's the crime ? The sound ended up in the bike anyway (which is good I guess) and Allen is now credited (which is good) and everybody is happy, but why the need to ask him to remove his changes ? Where was the harm in having a forum post saying "Modded sound for Blackheart's 750" ?

[TFC]

+1 to that MaX..

Would it instead possible to attach a hard coded name to a bike which can't be changed? This way there could be iterations after, titled differently, but it will always come up with the original author name..

[doubledragoncc]

+1 Fats

Encryption and paid mods will kill GPB............plain and simple.

FFS its hard enough to get new customers as it is with free mods now tell potential new customers they have to pay for mods!!!

At the end of the day it is about respect and that is all that is needed but if modders turn out to be cry babies wanting fame glory and money then they are not for GPB. Sorry but this is a COMMUNITY for fun is it not? At the end of the day, do modders put Honda or Yamaha's name in the credits? No, but where did the modder get the design for the bike in the first place? Where did the original paint liveries come from? Ok they are not the personal work the modder has done to MAKE the bike and paints,BUT they are another persons hard work to make in the first place!!!

We have some of the best modders in the bike sim world and it has been basically trouble free. Why over complicate everything FFS.

No matter what happens SOMEONE will rip off work even if it is encrypted so why bother in the first place.

DD

[Hawk]

Summary of this discussion:

Vin has modified for curiosity and fun a bike  (project X ?  )

Hawk says "this is bad! I want a new tool because It is not his bike!!"

Seriously ... but what you're talking 

Let me give an example, long ago Allen had created its own version of the old NR750 0.4 with different sounds/engine/phisics

This: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJ0kG6DQFAc

He had published and I made him remove it, because the author was me. When I had time I tested his version, I used some of his changes to create the v.1.0, its a mix of the work of 3 people.

And he is in the credits as co-author of the mod like me and Matty. This for me is a community victory. I can understand
may annoy that others are working on their own project, but if there are good results ... why not? 

I've never said that at all....... You've totally misunderstood me Blacky. Lol
I'm not against anyone working on someone else's work to improve work already done or to get another alternative version from an already released bike. I'm all for it! But what I have continually stressed is the need to obtain permissions from the author of that work before you release that work into the community. That is not being done in most cases. Work is being released as if it is totally their own work without credits being given at all.
Also releasing someone else's work and giving credits but without first gaining those permissions of the original authors does not give you the right to publish that work either. Permissions need to be gained first.

Also, I'm not talking about encrypting anything else but the physics and sound files and I'd personally like to see the texture files encrypted too.
BTW, the sound files are already encrypted in the default bikes, I haven't heard any big protests about that, I haven't seen anyone trying to sell good sound files either. 

You've got to realise that this issue only arises when there is major abuse of someone else's work, and I define that major abuse as, using someone else's work without first asking for permissions and giving credit to the original authors for their work.
If Piboso does introduce an encryption tool for modders then those concerned have only themselves to blame..... If they'd have done the right thing in the first place then this issue wouldn't have been suggested in the first place.

File encryption doesn't automatically mean everything is going to become a paid-for MODS community... That is just total gross scare-mongering. Those that believe that need to open their eyes instead of just taking one example and saying this is how all will turn out if file encryption is implemented..... Ever heard of "Tarring everyone with the same brush". 
I'll give you an alternative example for you guys who believe that to be true: Take a look at X-Plane 10 Flight Simulator. Absolutely no file encryption at all and yet a lot of people create MODS that the community buys. Nothing to do with file encryption at all... It's simply because the high quality planes are put up for sale by the modders and the low quality planes are free.
So by that example the conclusion is : Paid MODS are only accepted in a community that is happy to buy MODS, it has nothing to do with file encryption at all. 

But no-one here is talking about creating paid-for MODS are they, and I'm sure having been a member of this community for a good number of years, that won't happen. And if anyone came along trying to sell a mod then I think they'd soon be chased off with their tail between their legs. Lol! 
But seriously, no. There is enough talent and passion already here in this community for that not to happen in my opinion. 

DD hit the nail on the head when he said, "At the end of the day it is about respect and that is all that is needed". How true is that! Well said DD!   

Hawk.

[HornetMaX]

BTW, the sound files are already encrypted in the default bikes, I haven't heard any big protests about that, I haven't seen anyone trying to sell good sound files either. 

I protested and PiBoSo explained why they are encrypted: it sucks but that's it, no other way around that.
Side note: circumventing the protection on GPB default sounds is fairly easy.

I haven't seen anyone trying to sell good sound files either. 

Maybe because mod sounds do not have encryption ...

You've got to realise that this issue only arises when there is major abuse of someone else's work, and I define that major abuse as, using someone else's work without first asking for permissions and giving credit to the original authors for their work.
If Piboso does introduce an encryption tool for modders then those concerned have only themselves to blame..... If they'd have done the right thing in the first place then this issue wouldn't have been suggested in the first place.

Yes but then the whole community has to bear the side effects of encryption: to punish some you've punished all.

File encryption doesn't automatically mean everything is going to become a paid-for MODS community... That is just total gross scare-mongering. Those that believe that need to open their eyes instead of just taking one example and saying this is how all will turn out if file encryption is implemented..... Ever heard of "Tarring everyone with the same brush". 
I'll give you an alternative example for you guys who believe that to be true: Take a look at X-Plane 10 Flight Simulator. Absolutely no file encryption at all and yet a lot of people create MODS that the community buys. Nothing to do with file encryption at all... It's simply because the high quality planes are put up for sale by the modders and the low quality planes are free.
So by that example the conclusion is : Paid MODS are only accepted in a community that is happy to buy MODS, it has nothing to do with file encryption at all. 

Hawk you didn't understand the reasoning I made (which is more or less the reasoning Piboso suggested too): if we have encryption you will not start selling mods, maybe. But others will: modders that today do not bother to work on GBP will come because of the encryption. And most likely, they will come with a price tag one their creations.

DD hit the nail on the head when he said, "At the end of the day it is about respect and that is all that is needed". How true is that! Well said DD!   

So let's ask for respect instead of encryption.

[RiccoChicco]

Stupid question but : what's the link between paid mods and encryption?

We could already have douchebag selling his mods with readable data and if the file encryption is implemented, someone having paid for a mod could still give it to someone else who hasn't.

[HornetMaX]

Stupid question but : what's the link between paid mods and encryption?

Modders that mod for money are reluctant to work for games that do not provide encryption.

[Hawk]

BTW, the sound files are already encrypted in the default bikes, I haven't heard any big protests about that, I haven't seen anyone trying to sell good sound files either. 

I protested and PiBoSo explained why they are encrypted: it sucks but that's it, no other way around that.
Side note: circumventing the protection on GPB default sounds is fairly easy.

Then Piboso needs to know how that is achieved so that he can stop it happening, yes? 

I haven't seen anyone trying to sell good sound files either. 

Maybe because mod sounds do not have encryption ...

Very true....

You've got to realise that this issue only arises when there is major abuse of someone else's work, and I define that major abuse as, using someone else's work without first asking for permissions and giving credit to the original authors for their work.
If Piboso does introduce an encryption tool for modders then those concerned have only themselves to blame..... If they'd have done the right thing in the first place then this issue wouldn't have been suggested in the first place.

Yes but then the whole community has to bear the side effects of encryption: to punish some you've punished all.

Why see encryption as a punishment.... It will only stop those that wantonly abuse others work without asking permissions first, yes? If people want help and advice they only need to ask. I mean if someone walked into your house and helped themselves to your food without permission I'm sure you'd be the first to complain.... so why do you consider mod work any different? It's a strange attitude to consider any work you do free for all to do as they please with without asking permissions first, surely?

File encryption doesn't automatically mean everything is going to become a paid-for MODS community... That is just total gross scare-mongering. Those that believe that need to open their eyes instead of just taking one example and saying this is how all will turn out if file encryption is implemented..... Ever heard of "Tarring everyone with the same brush". 
I'll give you an alternative example for you guys who believe that to be true: Take a look at X-Plane 10 Flight Simulator. Absolutely no file encryption at all and yet a lot of people create MODS that the community buys. Nothing to do with file encryption at all... It's simply because the high quality planes are put up for sale by the modders and the low quality planes are free.
So by that example the conclusion is : Paid MODS are only accepted in a community that is happy to buy MODS, it has nothing to do with file encryption at all. 

Hawk you didn't understand the reasoning I made (which is more or less the reasoning Piboso suggested too): if we have encryption you will not start selling mods, maybe. But others will: modders that today do not bother to work on GBP will come because of the encryption. And most likely, they will come with a price tag one their creations.

You've misunderstood what I was trying to point out Max; that encryption doesn't bring paid-for MODS at all, it's the community itself that decides to accept modders who produce those paid for mods. Nothing to do with file encryption at all.
Put it this way - There is nothing at all stopping a modder producing a mod and asking money for it now. File encryption isn't needed to make someone pay for a mod before they can use it, there are plenty of software packaging utilities that won't allow installation until you enter a serial key or a password, etc. Again, not having file encryption doesn't stop modders asking for money it's more to do with the size of the market and how much money they feel they can make from it. Simple as that.....
So no..... You've got it all wrong mate.... File encryption has nothing to do with modders asking for money for their mods, not at all. 

DD hit the nail on the head when he said, "At the end of the day it is about respect and that is all that is needed". How true is that! Well said DD!   

So let's ask for respect instead of encryption.

I'd totally agree with you on that Max(did I just agree with you? Hehe!  ), but from some of the attitudes expressed here in this post, do you really think that is going to work? I mean seriously? Lol!

But.... Let's see if that works, eh. 

Hawk.

[Vini]

i'm confused now, is this (in part) about the projectx bike or not?
if so, i did not even upload the bike, i just showed that a 300hp moto2 is theoretically possible by putting a different engine in the bike. that is all i wanted to do (and all i can do anyway since i have no clue how 3d modelling works).

[doubledragoncc]

As a point about paints being used, IF the maker of a bike model offered it with a blank white TGA livery/fairing or whatever name they use, it would mean guys like me dont HAVE to extract a pnt file to be able to make our own paints. Templates are fine BUT not always offered and I cant use PhotoShop like most of you as I really dont have time to learn it and od all I have to.

Sometimes it is due to lack of a plain bike paint that one has to butcher and existing one!!! Or we would have a lot less personal paints. It is important to make it EASY for guys to have personal paints and not frickin harder!!!

DD

[Hawk]

As a point about paints being used, IF the maker of a bike model offered it with a blank white TGA livery/fairing or whatever name they use, it would mean guys like me dont HAVE to extract a pnt file to be able to make our own paints. Templates are fine BUT not always offered and I cant use PhotoShop like most of you as I really dont have time to learn it and od all I have to.

Sometimes it is due to lack of a plain bike paint that one has to butcher and existing one!!! Or we would have a lot less personal paints. It is important to make it EASY for guys to have personal paints and not frickin harder!!!

DD

A Paint-Kit is what I think your asking for DD? A .psd file with all the parts already set in layers ready for painting? 

Hawk.

[doubledragoncc]

NO NO NO FFS..............................Just kidding but NO Hawky

A TGA not PSD as it has to be converted for me to use as I DONT use PHOTOSHOP I am a Corel boy baby. And I am sure it would help others too as it is far easier to edit a tga than a psd if you dont have the right software. I am talking about making it REAL simple for everyone to do.

Thats why I made a Ducati Parts Pack so you did not even have to paint much just use the parts you want to change. THANKS BIG TIME to H for making the Ducati's like that. It makes it easy and fun to be able to paint nearly everything.

The LESS guys have to do to make personal paints WITHOUT using some dudes custom paint and getting their nuts bit off, the more personal it gets and the more personal paints will be used in GPB.

Naturally this is just the bikes paint I am talking about, but the more we are allowed to do in GPB without agro, the more fun it will be and a lot less battles of the bitches on the forums!!! Keep the fights for the racetrack lol

DD

[Blackheart]

As Blackheart has just shown with the 750/Allen story, modders become instantly jealous of what they do. The guy (Allen) modified the sound of the bike (the sound !) and Blackheart asked him to remove the mod ... what's the point ?!?!? The bike was out, he changed the sounds, where's the crime ? The sound ended up in the bike anyway (which is good I guess) and Allen is now credited (which is good) and everybody is happy, but why the need to ask him to remove his changes ? Where was the harm in having a forum post saying "Modded sound for Blackheart's 750" ?

This comment is false and too stupid for an answer 

@Hawk

I was ironic, I have not really understood the real reason of this discussion, what made you take the idea?