Rider Animation when changing gears......

[Hawk]

Hmm... If that is so, then Pib has made a mistake surely? The forward lean of the auto rider should be taken from the acceleration forces and not directly from the position of the throttle I'd have thought?

But if you are correct, then why doesn't the rider lean fully forward when on full throttle at lower speeds? Something doesn't sound right in your supposition there Vin? 

@DD -Shift Help: As I understand it, "Shift Help" is for use when you are unable to use fully manual throttle and clutch(with your controller) to change gears on older bikes that do not have the electronic quick-shifters.
If you don't use "Shift Help" with older bikes that don't have the electronic quick-shifters and you don't literally use your clutch and throttle as you would in real life to change gears(especially down changing) then you would wreck your gearbox, never mind the jerky clunky reaction from the bike when you tried changing gears without literally using your throttle and clutch to aid the smooth gear transitions. 
This is were your realistic controller DD should have a huge advantage over the rest of us who can't manually use throttle and clutch to change gears because the "Shift Help" function only has one setting, but in reality a rider varies their throttle and clutch usage depending on the RPM and situation at the time when changing gears. So you should have a big advantage there over those that cannot manually use their throttle and clutch to change gears.....
Could be a good selling point for your controller there DD, as it's much easier to change gears using the throttle and clutch as you would in real life with a real bike controller than it is to set those controls up and get used to using them on a gamepad! 
I personally find it almost impossible to do the real life manual gear change using a gamepad manual throttle and clutch setting. Has anyone cracked it and uses it? 

Hawk.
PS: @Vin: Rider still bobs up and down when changing gears without the use of any TC/AW at all. 

[doubledragoncc]

Ok got ya Hawky

Yep I love my clutch baby. It is natural to use a clutch lever especially with the road bikes, love slipping and dumping the clutch lol.

I had forgotten about how it is for a gamepad so yep you need clutch help to save your fingers for other things lol.

I can ride and still smoke, drink and even pick my nose with bars and foot controls lol.

DD

[BOBR6 84]

Iv'e never used any aids with my gamepad.. You don't need the clutch to shift up. for bikes without a quickshifter just close the throttle and change gear. simple.

for me.. throttle is right trigger.

clutch is right stick forward..

on downshifts i let the clutch out slowly.. (would like to feel more ''bite'' from the in game clutch tho...) if the speed isn't correct or i don't want much engine braking for a particular corner.. i blip the throttle too!

[Vini]

there is a minimum speed for tucking in. when it's reached throttle should be directly related to forwared lean. should not be hard to test.

you don't need the clutch or shift help for shifting, even on the old two strokes.
...not even for revmatching. been doing it myself the last few weeks. a short throttle blip (without disengaging the clutch) works when you are in the correct rpm-range, it's easier in the wet.


yes, but AW/TC can also cause the bobbing, just like shift help.

[Hawk]

Iv'e never used any aids with my gamepad.. You don't need the clutch to shift up. for bikes without a quickshifter just close the throttle and change gear. simple.

for me.. throttle is right trigger.

clutch is right stick forward..

on downshifts i let the clutch out slowly.. (would like to feel more ''bite'' from the in game clutch tho...) if the speed isn't correct or i don't want much engine braking for a particular corner.. i blip the throttle too!

I know you can change up gears without using a clutch(even on bikes without a quick-shifter), but it's still not advised to do so if you want a long gearbox life. But certainly to change down gears you need to use the clutch on a bike without the electronic quick-shifters, that's if you want to have a gearbox at the end of the race. Lol 

But I tend to use a joystick for GPB and it's impossible to set a joystick up for that unless you use it bolted to a desk or something because one hand is holding your stick, and the other hand is holding the base of your joystick. Lol 

@Vin: Are you talking about real 2 stroke bikes or 2 strokes in GPB?

Hawk.

[HornetMaX]

It's just the silly logic that decides when to lean fwd/back (above 180Kmh and throttle open --> lean fwd, else lean back).
With manual rider lean fwd you don't see it of course. On bikes with a shifter you may also not notice it (due to how fast the shift up happens).

I'd be much in favour of changing the logic that drives the auto lean fwd, the current one looks really bad.

[Vini]

I agree, Max but at the same time I would have no idea where to start if I was PiBoSo and to be honest I am not sure there is much he can do without being able to read minds.

[HornetMaX]

I agree, Max but at the same time I would have no idea where to start if I was PiBoSo and to be honest I am not sure there is much he can do without being able to read minds.

True, it's not really possible to get it perfect, I agree, that would need manual lean fwd. But to get it better than what we have right now shouldn't be too hard.
Something like: lean fwd at a lower speed (and eventually even sooner when throttle is wide open), then don't lean back until front brake is touched (even slightly) with the throttle (input) closed.

[Vini]

in the second picture rossi is still leaning a bit.

imo, what you want could be achieved by simply increasing the maximum rider forward lean a bit. at the moment the helmet is not even close to touching the tank.
and yes, when getting close to maximum forward lean the rider should move back a bit on the seat but all this definitely does not require an extra, dedicated button (it would only make the auto rider even more difficult to program).
....but the rider movements in general look extremely odd and outdated because they were inspired by mick doohan's all crossed up, broken riding style (it obviously worked for him but still).
this does not really have much to do with improving the auto rider lean, though, more with the riding style in general.
we are all hoping for moddable riding styles and I can't even remember what PiBoSo's answer regarding that was...

[PiBoSo]

I didn't get a response, maybe he didn't read the message...

Got it. It will be integrated in the next build.

[Vini]

I didn't get a response, maybe he didn't read the message...

Got it. It will be integrated in the next build.

Coud you give a few more details, please? Will the rider tuck-in more (and move back on the seat) and if so, will it just be integrated within the regular rider-fwd./bwd.-lean control or will you add an additional, dedicated control only for that?

[PiBoSo]

I didn't get a response, maybe he didn't read the message...

Got it. It will be integrated in the next build.

Coud you give a few more details, please? Will the rider tuck-in more (and move back on the seat) and if so, will it just be integrated within the regular rider-fwd./bwd.-lean control or will you add an additional, dedicated control only for that?

The plan is not definite yet. It's just to improve both manual and automatic F/B lean.

[Vini]

ok, good to hear!
...how about giving the (auto lean + manual override) users the possibility of freely dividing the (new, "extended range") F/B-lean-axis into separate steps that can each be assigned a specific button (+ set maximum values for the auto lean)? it would not make the manual rider lean control unnecessarily complicated and it would give auto-lean users (who lack the additional thumbstick) more fine control.

[Grooveski]

But I tend to use a joystick for GPB and it's impossible to set a joystick up for that unless you use it bolted to a desk or something because one hand is holding your stick, and the other hand is holding the base of your joystick. Lol 

Have you tried moving to the floor?  Carpets grip surprisingly well. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nECwsUKFMc
That's an old vid but I'm still doing the same for GPB with the clutch on the trigger and back brake on the button above it. (idealy I could do with a pad that had two analog triggers per side)

[Hawk]

But I tend to use a joystick for GPB and it's impossible to set a joystick up for that unless you use it bolted to a desk or something because one hand is holding your stick, and the other hand is holding the base of your joystick. Lol 

Have you tried moving to the floor?  Carpets grip surprisingly well. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nECwsUKFMc
That's an old vid but I'm still doing the same for GPB with the clutch on the trigger and back brake on the button above it. (idealy I could do with a pad that had two analog triggers per side)

I remember seeing that Vid Grooveski! That is an old vid mate! Lol!
But oh! I'm an old git and wouldn't last 10 secs on the floor like that without having to get up and stretch my old legs. Hehe! 

BTW... How on earth were you leaning that bike in the vid? I see a heck of a lot of rapid movements with the joystick and no reaction from the bike.... Were you leaning with the gamepad in your left hand? 

What I need is a controller like DD produces - a real bike controller..... I'm definitely going to get one as soon as I can find some spare cash for it.   

Hawk.