First-Person Camera Shake

[Vini]

There is definitely some involuntary head movements, especially due to bumps and the suspension working.

Which is irrelevant because the brain filters those inputs, as outlined by tchemi.

I'd argue that the first person cam being aligned with the rider's head location and direction (which would make helmet cam possible in replays) has a higher priority than simulating 100% accurate neck/head movements.
A simple filter that reduces the extreme shaking when the bike is wobbling around is another story, though.

[HornetMaX]

I'd argue that the first person cam being aligned with the rider's head location and direction (which would make helmet cam possible in replays)

I'm not sure the above is correct. My understanding is that today we don't have rider camera in replays because in replay files the exact position of the rider head/camera is not saved (nor reconstructed, if that is even possible). So I guess that having the camera aligned with the rider head (which btw is already the case right now when riding I think, no ?) will not give you automagically rider cam in replays.

[Vini]

You're right, it's not a direct consequence so to speak because, like you said, the head location and direction data is useless when it comes to reconstructing the helmet view, at the moment.
But if they matched, all you'd have to do is include that data in the netcode (GPB is already handling head direction for VR).
edit: And you'd have to make the rider invisible for the helmet cam of course.

Instead of having arbitrary tilt/"corner anticipation"/etc. sliders, you could have a couple of sliders/factors that "connect" the actual rider head location/direction to the helmet cam/view.
So for example one for left/right percentage and one for rotation/direction percentage (and if necessary also forward/backward and up/down).
To replicate exactly what other riders were seeing when watching replays, you'd have to include those factors in the netcode as well but I don't think that's necessary.

[HornetMaX]

You're right, it's not a direct consequence so to speak because, like you said, the head location and direction data is useless when it comes to reconstructing the helmet view, at the moment.
But if they matched, all you'd have to do is include that data in the netcode (GPB is already handling head direction for VR).

Instead of having arbitrary tilt/"corner anticipation"/etc. sliders, you could have a couple of sliders/factors that "connect" the actual rider head location/direction to the helmet cam/view.
So for example one for left/right percentage and one for rotation/direction percentage (and if necessary also forward/backward and up/down).
To replicate exactly what other riders were seeing when watching replays, you'd have to include those factors in the netcode as well but I don't think that's necessary.

I have a doubt: maybe it's just placebo effect, but it seems to me that the 1st person camera position (X,Y coords, not orientation) is already tied to the riders head position.
When I go from the classic rider style to the modern one, the 1st person view in a high lean angle turn seems to be different to me. At any rate, if you use manual rider lean/lean overrie, the position of the 1st person camera changes when the rider leans (l/r or f/b). So somehow the camera pos is already tied to the "head' pos.

But that won't solve the camera direction problem and I dont see how what you propose is any better than the current solutions (corner anticipation or a freetrack device like an EdTracker).
Actually, I don't even get what you mean exactly: left/right percentage of what ?

[h106frp]

The current 1P camera does not follow the rider model - try moving the camera start position into the rider helmet position and you can observe the difference. It seems to track (damped) within a limited box of it start location.

[Stout Johnson]

There is definitely some involuntary head movements, especially due to bumps and the suspension working.

Which is irrelevant because the brain filters those inputs, as outlined by tchemi.

Wrong. As I pointed out in my first post, what the brain filters out are vibrations. Because there the head oscillates around a stable middle, which the brain uses as a reference and filters out those mini-oscillations.

But if you have certain g-force "shocks", where the head gets moved for longer periods or even stays there, there is nothing to filter. If you brake hard and your upper body with head gets compressed 2cm towards the front, then you are 2cm towards the front and your brain will show you that like it should. This is what happens @00:48 in the video. It is very subtle, but if you look at it numerous times in a row you'll see it.

Also if there are certain g-force "shocks" from bigger bumps in the tarmac (@01:00 in the video) or the head gets a shock from wind catching the helmet outside of the windscreen (@00:40 in the video) you have certain movements that are not filtered.

Again, I am not talking about vibrations. I know you ride a bike yourself Vin, next time you are riding (at the temperatures we have atm it might be a few months ) try to ride really hard and try to memorize what your head is doing and your brain is showing. You will see there is a difference between vibrations and certain g-force shocks. And I know that those g-force effects are not extreme. The head might be shocked only within certain mm-ranges to maybe 2-3cm only. But still it would help the immersion immensely.

[tchemi]

There is definitely some involuntary head movements, especially due to bumps and the suspension working.

Which is irrelevant because the brain filters those inputs, as outlined by tchemi.

Wrong. As I pointed out in my first post, what the brain filters out are vibrations. Because there the head oscillates around a stable middle, which the brain uses as a reference and filters out those mini-oscillations.
bla bla bla

hum... bla bla bla is Wrong too. Remember guys that your eyes can roll in your skull and again, the brain is very powerfull weapon, decated to hunting rabbits. It filters vibrations and has a very cool features that we can call "target lock". It has benn developped during the first beta's in order to hunt rabbits and dears.

Anyway, untill a certain limit, your body, neck muscles, brain and eye rolls will filter any vibration, oscillation, rotation.

To come back to the initial topic. A simple feature could consist in blurring the edge of the screen when reaching a certain speed. But ! as it can be realistic for some of you guys, the brain can get used to it and with time and practice, it is less affected by the speed and you can still have a clear field of view with speed...

So, let's abandon this thread.