Aragon V0.85 (not updated)

[Gzehoo]

Not sure if modifying other's track is allowed...

...but I couldn't wait until anybody will see that Aragon needs to be fixed.

So I decided to make a little update for Motorland Aragon and publish it here as version 0.9.

What's new?
-control points (i1, i2, i3) the same as in real;
-updated my TV Cameras;

Aragon V0.9 NDS

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't change enough to rename it as version 0.9 so here is version 0.85 again.

Aragon V0.85 NDS

[doubledragoncc]

Thanks G

I do have to critic your track cams though. They are always too far out from the bike and they need to be much closer. As a referance look at A1 RIng Zoom TV cans they are perfect.

If watching a live replay you just can not see who it is as the bike is tiny.

Please do not take this wrongly but it is a thing that is importantfor dammenting on races and looks better

Thanks for your hard work and helping make GPB what it is

DD

[Gzehoo]

I'm trying to do TV Cameras as good as I can.

I'll try to update them in the future

[Hawk]

I have to disagree with you about the zoom and focus of replay cams in general DD..... If you have cams that are zoomed in too much then on live-stream you can only see the one rider, maybe two if you get two riders very close together; that isn't good for getting an idea of what's happening behind or how close the racing is as a whole. Also the spectator doesn't get a feel for the track either if the cams are always zoomed right into the bike being focused on.

Look on TV the way they do it, and they rarely zoom right into a riders bike like the "TV Zoom" cam does at the A1Ring(unless they are using the on-board bike cams)...... It's just a little too much zoom there at the A1Ring for the "TV Zoom" cam in my opinion.
In my personal opinion it is much better to have a few of the cams at a reasonable distance away from the action to capture a wider scene so spectators can see what is going off behind the focus bike or group of bikes and get a feel for what's happening in the race as a whole.

Having said that, I think I've said to Gzehoo before that I prefer the original replay cam files to the one he has created here; it is a little too far away from the action and doesn't seem to vary the cam focus distance very much. No disrespect to Gzehoo intended, just my personal opinion of what I see. 

Hawk.
PS: Also I don't feel adding a replay cam set really qualifies to alter the track version number as nothing has been updated with the track scene model itself? 

[Blackheart]

I'm agree with Hawk about the version.

For the replay re better zoomed cameras because as u can see there are glitch with the rider and some bikes (in this case the bike has a glitch with the front.)

[Gzehoo]

PS: Also I don't feel adding a replay cam set really qualifies to alter the track version number as nothing has been updated with the track scene model itself? 

But control points are changed as they were put wrong on the track and Sectors 2, 3 and 4 didn't have correct length. Now they are (almost) the same as in MotoGP/WSBK (look: attachment)

[Napalm Nick]

I can totally see what DD is saying but I also agree with Hawk.

There is a fine balance. Far enough out that the action can be seen but close enough for a commentator to pick out distinguishing rider marks for identification.

So somewhere between a spectators view and the default zoom level of the Auto Zoom. I have been using 15 as a minimum FOV in the tracks I am doing currently, but also mixing it up with some close action and distant overview cameras. This should give a commentator enough visual cues and clues if he/she has done some study on the riders hehe!  Which is why I have taken to using the same helmet and leathers for just about everything so the commentator gets to learn to spot me in a melee.

What I hate in cameras is:
1. default zoom used so we see lovely close shots of the bike without any feel for the action or flow of the circuit.
2. Too many cameras with short sequences which is just irritating.

I always refer to TV recordings online now to copy the camera locations (with some artistic license of course) and mix and match up FOVs but mainly with the thought "what will it look like in a racing scenario with other bikes".

As for changing camera files, I think if there are problems (jump back to pits etc) it is fine to change them, but if just adding a new view it should just be put as a new camera set.

I looked at Gzehoos cameras and the sequencing is great so I looked at it from DDs perspective and agree it is difficult, then I thought about TV and yep, it is difficult! 

My new rule of thumb will be that the bike must be identifiable (able to read a number for example) when at the closest point to the camera position. I reckon this covers it?

[Vini]

I have to disagree with you about the zoom and focus of replay cams in general DD..... If you have cams that are zoomed in too much then on live-stream you can only see the one rider, maybe two if you get two riders very close together; that isn't good for getting an idea of what's happening behind or how close the racing is as a whole. Also the spectator doesn't get a feel for the track either if the cams are always zoomed right into the bike being focused on.

True but if you are recording and planning on uploading that footage to youtube, you won't see much of any bike (in acceptable detail) if there is too little zoom.

[doubledragoncc]

Well seeing as I only suggested making them closer and not so far away you all got the wrong idea and say it is wrong.

When you watch MotoGP, do you really have the bikes so small hat you cant tell who is who and when did I evr say big enough that only one bike is on the screen. I have said it before and say it again you need to be able to tell what bike and rider it is but also have at least 3 to 4 bikes fit on the screen to see action, but not all the time.

I appreciate the hard work but if it is not practical to do a live stream with and you have to strain your eyes to see even what type of bike it is then it is too small. I made a critisism not to be mean but to try and improve on the cams as I dont know how to do them. G did a great job, it would just be imposible to commentate to properly and it is hard enough with the poor controls in the replay as it is lol.

The ideal way is for Piboso to make TV cams in the replay easy to use and to adjust as apposed to being just in the track file. Hard thing to do but needed

DD

[Hawk]

PS: Also I don't feel adding a replay cam set really qualifies to alter the track version number as nothing has been updated with the track scene model itself? 

But control points are changed as they were put wrong on the track and Sectors 2, 3 and 4 didn't have correct length. Now they are (almost) the same as in MotoGP/WSBK (look: attachment)

I think you'll find that the original sector markers were placed with the proper algorithm for the length of the track in TrackED, so check out the length of the real Aragon track and compare it with the GPB version and you'll find that the sector markers were already in the correct places for the GPB version of Aragon's track length.  So in effect I would now say they are probably in the wrong positions for the length of the GPB Aragon track? 

Well seeing as I only suggested making them closer and not so far away you all got the wrong idea and say it is wrong.

When you watch MotoGP, do you really have the bikes so small hat you cant tell who is who and when did I evr say big enough that only one bike is on the screen. I have said it before and say it again you need to be able to tell what bike and rider it is but also have at least 3 to 4 bikes fit on the screen to see action, but not all the time.

I appreciate the hard work but if it is not practical to do a live stream with and you have to strain your eyes to see even what type of bike it is then it is too small. I made a critisism not to be mean but to try and improve on the cams as I dont know how to do them. G did a great job, it would just be imposible to commentate to properly and it is hard enough with the poor controls in the replay as it is lol.

The ideal way is for Piboso to make TV cams in the replay easy to use and to adjust as apposed to being just in the track file. Hard thing to do but needed

DD

Absolutely agree with you, DD, about wanting the viewer to be able to position and control the zoom on the replay cams. Would be great for live-streams too! 
You'll soon be needing a GPB livestream cameraman by the sound of it DD! Haha! 

And okay, I may have exaggerated a little about the closeness of the zoom at the A1Ring(call it artistic license to help get the point across. Lol), but I still think the "TV-Zoom" at the A1Ring is a little too close and misses out on other possible close-by action behind the bike in focus; I think the spectator cam is better in places at the A1Ring, but a combination of the two would be best I think? 

@Vin: I think Nick has summed this replay cam design issue up very well indeed, in that variety of zoom distance in cams around the whole track, and knowing when and where a cam should be close in and for how long are the secrets to this; because then you'd have your close-in shots as well as your more distant shots... A balanced approach, like I think Nick is saying, is the solution I think. 

Hawk.

[Napalm Nick]

While we are all discussing nicely  here is an idea, just an idea, maybe worth a try or test?

Go to "Free" mode (not Free Roam) and pick the view you like, zooming in and out to set it between a good mix of action and identifiability (I might of just made that word up) then you can swop bikes to anyone and always have that same view. Mix it up with the replay cams and the BBC will be hiring!

Examples:

Free view backwards


Free view forwards


Maximum zoom out in Free mode


Plus it travels with the bike to give you time to identify and also watch any overtaking action. Of course it isn't like on TV that's why I say mix it up with some normal camera shots. Once you know the shortcuts simples.(ish)

Edit: Got my forwards and backwards mixed up

[doubledragoncc]

l prefer orbit cam as it can spin and follow action but most tracks have been made so you cant select orbit with keypad numbers

P needs to make other controls for live replay

[Napalm Nick]

Yeh but you cant get as far away wiv de Orbit gum.

[Kerazo]

nice cameras thanks for that Gzehoo

[Gzehoo]

I think you'll find that the original sector markers were placed with the proper algorithm for the length of the track in TrackED, so check out the length of the real Aragon track and compare it with the GPB version and you'll find that the sector markers were already in the correct places for the GPB version of Aragon's track length.  So in effect I would now say they are probably in the wrong positions for the length of the GPB Aragon track? 

OK, you won.

Version 0.85 uploaded in the first post.