Author Topic: eMotorsports?  (Read 3107 times)

Hawk

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Re: eMotorsports?
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2017, 09:06:48 AM »
Put it this way: Who has the majority current market for Car Motorsport online racing? Do they have gamey physics or pander to the majority console boys? No.... Realism is what eSport needs not gimmicky physics...... I rest my case.  :P  :)
Put it this way: who has an official F1 license ?

CodeMasters still have the F1 license simply because the F1 authorities haven't yet seriously thought about backing an eSport online racing industry Max. When they finally wake-up to the potential of eSport(which won't be very long now F1 have new masters) they will be looking for a development company that give the most realistic simulation/representation of F1 possible; that won't be CodeMasters for sure!  :P :)

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HornetMaX

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Re: eMotorsports?
« Reply #16 on: May 19, 2017, 10:00:22 AM »
MotoGP has hard time finding prime time slots on national tvs and you think motorbike esport has a bright future for sure.
The vast majority of gamers are on arcade triple A games and you think hardcore sims will be selected by major global brands for sure.
iRacing (cars, surely a much larger players base than bikes) survives only thanks to its sponsor (at least that's what we've been told here) and you think GPB could become big in eSport just because it's a very good sim.

I think you're daydreaming, but daydreaming is free of charge, so no biggie :)

passerBy

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Re: eMotorsports?
« Reply #17 on: May 19, 2017, 11:04:21 AM »
Have to agree with Max on this one. The world is ruled by money. Sometimes it's the need, sometimes it's sheer greed.

After the WRC license was given to Kylotonn once, Mario Kart has a good chance of becoming the official sim for KWC. Simulators are only of interest to the enthusiasts. And there's not a whole lot of enthusiasts out there... So, when you create a sim, you should get used to the idea that only a handful of people will appreciate your work. The more serious you are about the sim scene, the more respect to you, though.

Hawk

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Re: eMotorsports?
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2017, 11:16:25 AM »
MotoGP has hard time finding prime time slots on national tvs and you think motorbike esport has a bright future for sure.
The vast majority of gamers are on arcade triple A games and you think hardcore sims will be selected by major global brands for sure.
iRacing (cars, surely a much larger players base than bikes) survives only thanks to its sponsor (at least that's what we've been told here) and you think GPB could become big in eSport just because it's a very good sim.

I think you're daydreaming, but daydreaming is free of charge, so no biggie :)

The mistake your making is that your thinking of the here and now Max.... If you really want to make a success of anything you have to have a vision of what could be and make it happen. Trying to jump on the band-wagon of what has already been done before will only at best get you short term success.
But one thing is for sure Max..... No one will make a success from online eSport events if they try and go with the gamey triple A games of the likes of Milestone and Codemasters..... Online eSports events have to have that realistic simulation element if they are to achieve any level of popularity with competitors/spectators and subsequently the big sponsors that will be attracted to it.
Watching those ridiculous gamey physics as a spectator is at best a good laugh, but it also becomes very boring very quickly; it's good fun for the user/player no doubt, but really pretty rubbish to actually watch as a spectator. But watching a realistic simulation of an event is almost as good as watching the real thing and does holds your interest. That's the big difference.

Only dreamers will ever achieve anything in life Max...... That's where new ideas are born and new industries made:P

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HornetMaX

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Re: eMotorsports?
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2017, 11:37:30 AM »
Only dreamers will ever achieve anything in life Max...... :P
Or not.

Cory_Hayes.11

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Re: eMotorsports?
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2017, 11:39:51 AM »
Interesting reading all of this, if GPB ( or any motorbike game for that matter ) were to be an eSport, wouldn't the people competing need to be using something other than a gamepad as well for it to stand out as an actual simulator instead of a game like MotoGP?

( this might not be relevant right now in the discussion but it is something that would have to be a factor )
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Hawk

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Re: eMotorsports?
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2017, 11:44:17 AM »
Have to agree with Max on this one. The world is ruled by money. Sometimes it's the need, sometimes it's sheer greed.

After the WRC license was given to Kylotonn once, Mario Kart has a good chance of becoming the official sim for KWC. Simulators are only of interest to the enthusiasts. And there's not a whole lot of enthusiasts out there... So, when you create a sim, you should get used to the idea that only a handful of people will appreciate your work. The more serious you are about the sim scene, the more respect to you, though.

The point here is: "How to make a success of online eSports, and how many viewers do we think can be attracted to watch such events".

It's not at all about how many people will actually become competitors in eSport, it's about designing a product that attracts viewers to watch. That will generate the subsequent interest of the big sponsors and media and that in turn will generate even more interest to watch the events.
The developer of the actual simulation software will benefit a lot more from the licensing contracts to the big sponsors, media and viewing rights to the events than the money they'll make from actual sales of the simulation software; actual software sales will just be a bonus for the developer for people who dream of actually being able to compete in such events, and as the industry becomes more popular, those sales will naturally increase as time goes by.

This is a totally different type of market to raw game sales, and you can't apply the typical game sales logic to how well or how popular online eSport events will become in the future.

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Hawk

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Re: eMotorsports?
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2017, 11:52:34 AM »
Only dreamers will ever achieve anything in life Max...... :P
Or not.

Haha, Max! Don't be so negative! ;D

You only fail if you dream and don't do anything about it because people around you are telling you it'll never work and your just living in a dream-world(Does that ring a bell?).

You can achieve anything you want in life if you are determined enough to make it happen and shrug-off the doubters because you have a vision and you know you can make it work.  ;)

Hawk.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2017, 12:03:55 PM by Hawk »

Hawk

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Re: eMotorsports?
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2017, 12:03:10 PM »
Interesting reading all of this, if GPB ( or any motorbike game for that matter ) were to be an eSport, wouldn't the people competing need to be using something other than a gamepad as well for it to stand out as an actual simulator instead of a game like MotoGP?

( this might not be relevant right now in the discussion but it is something that would have to be a factor )

Oh, I'm sure once these events started to take off that competitors will undoubtedly want to purchase real bike controllers of the likes DD sells or similar to gain the best advantage they can. I'm sure there would be a whole spin-off industry in supplying motorcycle controllers of all types and designs to try and gain an advantage.  :)

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HornetMaX

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Re: eMotorsports?
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2017, 01:24:06 PM »
I always doubt about people presenting a plan in front of me and using the words "sure", "undoubtedly" etc way too often. In general, they are far from sure.

That aside, you can put how many internet-gibberish you want ("You only fail if you dream", "You can achieve anything you want in life if you are determined enough"), but the reality is something else.

At any rate, if you're just half as sure as you say you are, go to your bank, ask for a loan, kickstart motorbike esport and become rich and our personal hero :)

Hawk

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Re: eMotorsports?
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2017, 01:52:46 PM »
I always doubt about people presenting a plan in front of me and using the words "sure", "undoubtedly" etc way too often. In general, they are far from sure.

That aside, you can put how many internet-gibberish you want ("You only fail if you dream", "You can achieve anything you want in life if you are determined enough"), but the reality is something else.

At any rate, if you're just half as sure as you say you are, go to your bank, ask for a loan, kickstart motorbike esport and become rich and our personal hero :)

You sound like someone who's had his fingers badly burned Max?  :-\

Don't mistake me being positive and confident about it as so called gibberish.... If everyone had a negative outlook on the subject then nothing would ever get off the ground......

If you have a vision for what would be possible with online eSport then please share it. I'm well open to be proven wrong in my vision, or if someone else has a better vision for going forward with eSport for MotoGP? Let's get the ideas out here and discuss/debate them. ;) :)

Kickstarter would probably be the way to go with this..... Only the general public seem to have a vision for these kind of projects and willing to contribute to make them happen.
Banks? Well I'd have to take that suggestion as a joke, Max! Haha!  ;D :P

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HornetMaX

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Re: eMotorsports?
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2017, 02:34:33 PM »
You sound like someone who's had his fingers badly burned Max?  :-\
I still have all my fingers unburnt. Mostly thanks to what you call "being negative".

It's always easier for people with no stakes to dream about this or that making it big.
Totally different for people having to shed out their money/time/life to actually doing what you ask (Dorna, Milestone, Piboso etc).

Don't mistake me being positive and confident about it as so called gibberish.... If everyone had a negative outlook on the subject then nothing would ever get off the ground......
And if everyone had a positive outlook as you do, the world would be full of scammers. No wait, it is full of scammers ... :)

If you have a vision for what would be possible with online eSport then please share it.
I don't. That's the point. eSport only works if masses join. I don't see masses of people playing bike sims or games. End of the story.
If cars can't make it happen, there's no way bikes could: cars have a way larger user base and way more money overall to throw at it.

Kickstarter would probably be the way to go with this..... Only the general public seem to have a vision for these kind of projects and willing to contribute to make them happen.
Banks? Well I'd have to take that suggestion as a joke, Max! Haha!  ;D :P
How in hell would you like to use kickstarter to promote eSport on motorbikes ?!?!

On a side note, the last kickstarter we had (the one for a laser scanned TT track) didn't end exactly as many expected/were sure of.

matty0l215

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Re: eMotorsports?
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2017, 03:02:18 PM »
The main issue with eSports in Western culture they aren't deemed to be mainstream spectator sport. (Not like football/rugby/cricket/f1/motogp/etc. anyway) Go to Asia (mainly Japan, Korea, Tiwan) and you can move without seeing some sort of Game being shown as "sport" on the TV/Internet.

Things are catching up but not at the pace most people would probably like and certianlly not in the Motorsports genre. It is to neiche. 

Unless we see a massive shift in how and what people watch I don't think there is going to be a massive following soon. The community (for motorbike sims anyway) is to small the shout loud enough to get poeple to listen/watch and those who currently watch racing are most likley envolved in it in some way.

WALKEN

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Re: eMotorsports?
« Reply #28 on: May 19, 2017, 03:47:07 PM »
We been saying this sort of thing will happen for years now Pib...... Do you still think online racing and championship facilities/utilities isn't a main priority for GPB?

If GPBikes was rock solid stable and V1.0 you could've stood a good chance being noticed for such an interest from these guys wanting to create online championships; still could in the future if you can speed up development of GPB.  :)

In the meantime that piece of crap(MotoGP from Milestone) is going to get all the glory and in a lot of respects ruin the foundation for realistic online motorcycle racing championships. Notice I said, "Realistic"? This is where your niche is and what you should concentrate on for the online championship capabilities and not the Gameboys that will use Milestones MotoGP. Keep it real!  ;D 8)

Hawk.

At the moment there isn't enough money around racing eSports to justify the creation of all the tracks and bikes for a full season.
So the only option for Dorna is to use a game that already has the license and all the needed content. Plus, console versions.

The real question is: how many will be interested in following that championship? Does it have a future?
eSports sustain themselves with viewers, that attract sponsors and media coverage.

What do you think?

I'll tell you what I think. Its almost down right dead and boring how many times I have mentioned to developers @   "later Climax"/Monumental/Milestone/Capcom. I practically wrote books on the success of the first 2 Climax MotoGP offerings netcode, by Shawn Hargreaves.  On GP1 (Climax) every night was like a Friday night out with your friends. The scoreboards were the carrot and the competition was insane!   

You can make the greatest simulation/game but the most important part is creating a robust netcode the way Shawn Hargreaves did. All the features where there and no one beyond Shawn capitalized on his work...

A server that runs all platforms be it pc/xbox/ps etc with resettable scoreboards. Its the drama of a collective interest and the micro social bubbles. Having your name at the top of a scoreboard is like being a mini Rossi. It allows those who take virtual racing serious to a level of competitiveness not found by simply racing on line and crashing into each other.

On NetworkChallenge.org we kept the Climax series alive for years on PC until Gamespy ended.

Even if this NEW thing they wanna do is brought to the table they will ruin it. They just don't understand that simple is best and looking back to the past is the key!   :(           
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Hawk

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Re: eMotorsports?
« Reply #29 on: May 19, 2017, 03:52:29 PM »
You sound like someone who's had his fingers badly burned Max?  :-\
I still have all my fingers unburnt. Mostly thanks to what you call "being negative".

It's always easier for people with no stakes to dream about this or that making it big.
Totally different for people having to shed out their money/time/life to actually doing what you ask (Dorna, Milestone, Piboso etc).

Don't mistake me being positive and confident about it as so called gibberish.... If everyone had a negative outlook on the subject then nothing would ever get off the ground......
And if everyone had a positive outlook as you do, the world would be full of scammers. No wait, it is full of scammers ... :)

If you have a vision for what would be possible with online eSport then please share it.
I don't. That's the point. eSport only works if masses join. I don't see masses of people playing bike sims or games. End of the story.
If cars can't make it happen, there's no way bikes could: cars have a way larger user base and way more money overall to throw at it.

Kickstarter would probably be the way to go with this..... Only the general public seem to have a vision for these kind of projects and willing to contribute to make them happen.
Banks? Well I'd have to take that suggestion as a joke, Max! Haha!  ;D :P
How in hell would you like to use kickstarter to promote eSport on motorbikes ?!?!

On a side note, the last Kickstarter we had (the one for a laser scanned TT track) didn't end exactly as many expected/were sure of.

So as far as your concerned, all this vision of online eSport for MotoGP is total rubbish and would never work? Seems to me that is what your basically saying from your above replies?

Kickstarter could be used for it's purpose; to raise the funds required to produce the software and organisation needed to create this vision. But it would need the right team put together with the right credentials and a viable road plan for it to work.

The Kickstarter for the laser scanned TT track(not sure what this has to do with MotoGP eSport, but anyway): Did you ever think that was going to succeed? That was like saying if I supply the raw data for producing a model of a TT track then someone else can use it to create the track as part of a TT race game.... Really?  :o
Now if they were a game/sim dev team and promoted it as wanting funding to create a TT race simulation and could prove their credentials to achieve that with a viable road-plan then it might have stood a chance of succeeding. In the end it failed simply because at the end of the day the result of what they were offering was not an actual product or service at all.

But the alternative and probably the best way to get this going, without Kickstarter, would be from what I was suggesting in my post here: http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=4971.msg75694#msg75694

"Mighty oaks grow from little acorns"

Hawk.