Author Topic: AI  (Read 425 times)

guigui404

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AI
« on: June 18, 2017, 03:32:29 PM »
Finaly played a bit of it.

first thoughts were not that good.
tried to edit it... and after a longgggg (zzzzzzz  >:() time of digging through the files (and scrathing my head many times) i finaly found something i was looking for  ::)

So instead of removing it (which i was about to do)... i will keep it on my HDD.

P.S
If there was an option for editable AI in GPBikes .........  ;)

This is also a question to Piboso, (if you do read this) i know you told me years ago.... but this is still not an option for GPBikes ?? to have some (smart) AI ??

Thats the Main and only reason i dont play GPBikes.
I just dont like to sit and wait for a online game....

With AI i can play Whatever/Whenever i want.

It's really complicate to creat a great AI , isn't it ?

guigui404

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Re: AI
« Reply #1 on: June 18, 2017, 04:06:06 PM »
But the hidden question was ,you think make a "playable" Ai for GPB would be easy ? , I mean fast , and really usefull ?

Aernouts2

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Re: AI
« Reply #2 on: June 18, 2017, 05:40:14 PM »
OK finaly somthing about GPBikes.

Quote
But the hidden question was ,you think make a "playable" Ai for GPB would be easy ?
No i am aware of it.
It is not easy in fact i think it is realy, realy hard to do. (specialy with all the tracks created by the modders)
Quote
I mean fast , and really usefull ?
Very usefull yes.
Only 5 or 6 AI would be enough for me.... fight for the podium ??

On the other hand.
my guess is this game started developping somewhere in 2002 ??
If Piboso would have ever have *AI bikes* in his mind it would have been here right now...

GPBikes is ok the way it is right now.
Just not for me, but thats no problem.
« Last Edit: June 18, 2017, 05:47:00 PM by Aernouts2 »

CapeDoctor

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Re: AI
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2017, 06:37:40 AM »
...
This is also a question to Piboso, (if you do read this) i know you told me years ago.... but this is still not an option for GPBikes ?? to have some (smart) AI ??

Thats the Main and only reason i dont play GPBikes.
I just dont like to sit and wait for a online game....

With AI i can play Whatever/Whenever i want.

i've also asked for this, although i realise it's not something PiBoSo is very keen on.
well, as online is still currently a no-go for me, due to whatever causes my high ping and constant issues that crop up the instant i enter a n official qualy/race event, then ten tons of weird shit happens, and instead of fighting with the pack for the race, my first few laps are usually just a nightmare of lag/spiking issues, causing multiple crashes per lap - which boils down to online being absolutely pointless.
i'd be happy just to have my own ghost rider to chase, but the endless hours of being alone on track gets a bit much with no-one to benchmark against.
add to that the overwhelming strangeness of actually seeing other bikes on track when online, it's a level of distraction which we wouldn't have to 'acclimatise' to if we could spend time offline in the company of other bikes.
i'd love to me more online, most of the guys are great, but the racing experience itself is basically just not happening for me, and others.

hang on, i digress.... that's not what this thread is for, so anyone with more MotGP 17 news, time to chip in, lol

tchemi

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Re: AI
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2017, 08:27:15 AM »
Go on ! Create a thread about AI. It's not so hard to create a good AI in fact !

CapeDoctor

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Re: AI
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2017, 08:50:14 AM »
it has already been asked and discussed, tchemi.
i'm not one to keep repeating things - i make a suggestion once, and what happens happens.
feel free to add some thoughts in an existing thread, rather than create a new thread with a similar topic...  ;)
what i would hope is that PiBoSo makes it possible to do, but then leaves the actual implementation and fine-tuning of AI to the modders - if that is possible. i'm not so sure...   ???

h106frp

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Re: AI
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2017, 09:43:07 AM »
The best chance is if someone can create 'bot users' that you could just add as if they were real network riders.

JamoZ

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Re: AI
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2017, 06:41:32 PM »
Creating AI that just follows the ideal line like a retard isn`t that big of a challenge, but I don`t think you guys realise how hard it is to create life like AI. AI is something very few games do right, and even fewer racing games. There is so much programming involved, so many variables...
It took Kunos at least 3 years and it still isn`t perfect ( although together with rFactor 2 the best atm)

it`s a whole different ball game...

Stout Johnson

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Re: AI
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2017, 07:08:38 PM »
Agreed, AI that sort of behaves like humans is very hard to do. Another sim that had really good AI was Geoff Crammond's Grand Prix Series. It was really realistic, AI really felt human, had a realistic rate of errors, sometimes even small errors like just being a tad bit off line etc, very balanced aggrasiveness. It was pure joy. I did not even miss multiplayer.
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guigui404

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Re: AI
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2017, 07:23:41 PM »
Agreed, AI that sort of behaves like humans is very hard to do. Another sim that had really good AI was Geoff Crammond's Grand Prix Series. It was really realistic, AI really felt human, had a realistic rate of errors, sometimes even small errors like just being a tad bit off line etc, very balanced aggrasiveness. It was pure joy. I did not even miss multiplayer.
Dude , I played GP4 for years , even today I play it , the AI is shit , don't lie about it ^^ , the AI would not consider you , not let place , etc , most aggresive AI ever seen

PiBoSo

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Re: AI
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2017, 07:42:10 PM »
Creating AI that just follows the ideal line like a retard isn`t that big of a challenge, but I don`t think you guys realise how hard it is to create life like AI. AI is something very few games do right, and even fewer racing games. There is so much programming involved, so many variables...
It took Kunos at least 3 years and it still isn`t perfect ( although together with rFactor 2 the best atm)

it`s a whole different ball game...

In my previous life, as a slave code monkey, I was responsible for the AI of a AAA racing game.
Tchemi is right: it's not difficult to create realistic AI that does little and small mistakes and is aware of the other vehicles and overtakes and protects the line. It's actually quite easy and even fun, if you know what you're doing.
The real challenge is to make them fast, especially if you are using the same physics as the player, with no tricks.
The users are already racing against no one, the bots should at the very least use the same vehicle dynamics to make the AI meaningful.

Speaking of AI using the same physics with no external forces AT ALL:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/b9DyDQR8Re0" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/b9DyDQR8Re0</a>
Stunning. I'm ecstatic.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 07:55:48 PM by PiBoSo »

guigui404

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Re: AI
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2017, 07:46:35 PM »
And is an AI planed ? see you've bought a mx-bikes steam page recently , will gpb follow this ?

tchemi

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Re: AI
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2017, 08:57:06 PM »
Talking about an IA.

What I've done recently is a AI for a little racing game. It was part of a code contest online. The objective of the contest is to beat other guys AI. It is not made with a high-end technology or whatever. It is dumb javascript that takes input as text and gives instruction as text in return. This AI is 50 lines of code, not more, and it can beat a casual human. Better than that, it learns the track and adapt itself on next laps to take better corners. And every time you run your code, the track is different. Different corners, different number of corners etc...

Let say that we could create a computer player that takes telemetry in input (Man, Max HUd got so many data in real time ! It's awesome) and gives control input instruction in return. My code was runing every 100ms max (10 decisions by second). Imagine How reactive it could be.

Imagine a AI capable of learning any bike, any track, from scratch. It will start slow and make mistake and learn every corners. It will try to go faster and faster on each lap. And once it could reach a good pace and cannot be better it is done. We can give it some basic riding skill as constants. I think that this something we can create.

What do you think of it ?

I agree, It may not be the best approach for GPB. But even if you have better solutions, the code itself is not that hard.

The best chance is if someone can create 'bot users' that you could just add as if they were real network riders.

Yes, this would be one a the prerequisite
« Last Edit: June 19, 2017, 09:18:59 PM by tchemi »

h106frp

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Re: AI
« Reply #13 on: June 19, 2017, 09:31:32 PM »
That would be the best way as it leaves the original game code alone. It would be easy enough to leave the AI lapping the circuit overnight to learn the track. I suppose if it just did a few slow laps of the centre line it would be the easiest way for it to start.

tchemi

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Re: AI
« Reply #14 on: June 19, 2017, 09:39:35 PM »
Yep.

But I was thinking about something. The easier would be to have distance to the next corner or distance between corners.