Author Topic: x360 controller setup? tips to not fall off everytime?  (Read 479 times)

Luponius

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x360 controller setup? tips to not fall off everytime?
« on: July 19, 2017, 05:31:01 PM »
I get what I'm supposed to do when it comes to riding hard, I don't really race on my rl bike but I get what's what, I'm however struggling to convey the inputs I want in game, The greatest problem I'm having is leaning, there are times I want it done quickly and other times very slowly but it just seems to either jerk around violently or not quite keep up with my intent to suddenly shift direction.

In addition, when trying to make micro adjustements on throttle and lean (sometimes I just want micro changes, like rider positioning without touching bike inputs) it all goes through too violently and either jerks the bike all over the place, or just dumps it in a lowside followed by a violent piroutte.

Anyone using x360 successfully and if so could you share the setup as well as some general tips when it comes to tackling corners with precision?  I also play on the dashboard layout because rider's view isn't informative enough ( no feeling of bike so can't exactly tell what it's doing ) and third person just feels weird, and not particularly immersive.

Luponius

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Re: x360 controller setup? tips to not fall off everytime?
« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2017, 06:35:54 PM »
Ok I've set direct lean to 15% and this seems to work much better than with it off, this way the bike seems to want to recenter. I also added a 10% to 20% deadzone for most analog controls since my controller is a bit old and always leaves some form of input in there.  It all seems much better, I'm still struggling with being gentler on the brake and throttle, I'm also finding it impossible to brake and downshift at the same time (left trigger is brake, left bumper button is downshift)  any recommendations there?

h106frp

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Re: x360 controller setup? tips to not fall off everytime?
« Reply #2 on: July 19, 2017, 06:50:41 PM »
Unfortunately low quality controllers are a nightmare with GPB, if you have explored all the calibration issues then you may need to find a better pad.

Genuine xbox and thrustmaster GPX are popular. Ideally you need long linear triggers for decent brake and throttle control and reliable centreing. A 'square' stick orbit i.e. full deflection in all directions rather than circular also helps a lot.

My journey  :)
http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=2404.0 

BOBR6 84

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Re: x360 controller setup? tips to not fall off everytime?
« Reply #3 on: July 19, 2017, 07:06:46 PM »
Ok I've set direct lean to 15% and this seems to work much better than with it off, this way the bike seems to want to recenter. I also added a 10% to 20% deadzone for most analog controls since my controller is a bit old and always leaves some form of input in there.  It all seems much better, I'm still struggling with being gentler on the brake and throttle, I'm also finding it impossible to brake and downshift at the same time (left trigger is brake, left bumper button is downshift)  any recommendations there?

my control layout has always been..
Thrustmaster GPX controller (same as xbox)

Left stick - steer
Right stick forward - clutch
Right stick back - rear brake
Left trigger - front brake
Right trigger - throttle
B button - shift gear up
RB shoulder - gear shift down

gives me a nice hand position for downshifting with clutch.

No dead zones.. Direct lean set to 35%. hope it helps.

MarcL

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Re: x360 controller setup? tips to not fall off everytime?
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2017, 04:10:25 AM »
This is a bit of an interesting topic, as I think a comfortable control layout is vitally important.

I have been lurking around and playing GPB for ages, and just recently started finally clicking (I think I've had it since Beta 4? Not sure). Even though I recognized the dynamics etc, I felt that something was always off with my inputs. Even though I was a massive bike nut back in the 500cc days, I haven't had much experience with bikes, so I started slowly working on it. Most of my vehicle dynamics experience was with cars, so I had to start from scratch in some ways. So after much trial and error, I arrived at this.

For reference I'm on a regular XB One controller (was on 360 prior).

LT: Rear Brake             RT: Front Brake                    Y: Camera
LB: Shift Down            RB: Shift Up               X:None              B:Look Back
                                                                              A: None
LS(L/R): Steer             RS(Back): Throttle
LS(Back): Clutch

Left Menu button(?): Reset

Those are the only controls I'm going to emphasize, the rest (other than left D-Pad being tearoff) are free for gestures and whatnot.

What I was trying to do essentially with this setup is emulate an actual bike layout. I refrained from pushing a control for throttle input and resorted to pulling on a longer throw (hence RS Back for throttle). I find it's way more accurate as the spring works to stabilize your input rather than hinder it. As a side-note, I feel this control scheme makes use of the rear brake way more viable in my case, and I have gotten out of hairy situations I'd never have imagined before. The rear brake is my friend now.

Extra Parameters:

Lean Linearity: 60-80% depending on personal preference (I usually hover around 70% as you can be pretty accurate between 0deg and full lean while maintaining smooth control)
Direct Lean: 30% (For damping your inputs a tad but maintaining some directness without wobbling)
Lean Deadzone 5-8% (I only have some to account for the natural drift these have sometimes)
Clutch Deadzone: 20% (So you don't bump it while steering)

Additional Info:

A massive issue I had originally was with the brakes, which I totally glossed over thinking it was just going to take seat time, but they always felt incredibly razor sharp to be able to operate on a short throw input reliably without eating a face full of Catalan Tarmac Pie.

Brakes are a weird thing because IRL, they're pressure-operated, whereas in most cases in sims, they're movement-operated. The latter can be very annoying as it takes you a way bigger movement to get out of the danger zone rather than simply easing off the pressure. The best thing to emulate proper braking input would be a load cell. But, since we're only talking about Gamepads here, I found that tweaking the Linearity all the way down to 30-40% does a good enough job of emulating pressure actuation. The initial range is fairly light, which does wonders seeing as that's usually the range you're in when you're snatching the trigger coming into the braking zone, with a steep ramp-up towards the latter end of the range. That means that if you do overcook the brakes, a slight lift will settle the bike again. I do it on Pedals as well with driving sims, it's a night and day difference for me.

I'm sure there are many, many, way more advanced users on here who can suggest viable input schemes, but I thought I'd share some mutterings in case someone found it useful.

EDIT:

P.S. Super-important note which I cannot overemphasize. Bike Riders will snicker as this is Riding 101, but a lot of people tend to forget about it in a gaming context. Always look at where you want to place the bike. Always look ahead and picture your line. If you target fixate, you're gonna have a bad time. If you lose focus during an upset, you're gonna have a bad time. Whatever you do, always look for the next point you want to be at. Even if you think you're doing it already, do it more. It's essential seeing as most of your steering is going to be with the throttle. And the better premeditated the line, the smoother the throttle input, the faster you exit, the less you fall.
« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 04:31:14 AM by MarcL »

Luponius

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Re: x360 controller setup? tips to not fall off everytime?
« Reply #5 on: July 23, 2017, 07:16:38 PM »
Thanks for the replies, apologies for lack of response since I wasn't notified I was getting replies. I'l look and see if I can find a Thrustmaster controller to ship to my tiny island in the middle of nowhere

Since making this post I changed my down shift to the Y button and it worked much better.  I'll probably set my rear brake to RS down having read BOBRs control scheme layout.  I'm not really using the clutch however, I find riding my own bike the clutch is an automatic impulse and it's more annoying then simulative to use in a game such as this, although admittedly would be nice to revmatch, just no way to twist a throttle on an x360 gamepad! :P

The only issue I have left is how the bike gets dumped at slowing speeds or heavily committed corners.  It doesn't just fall straight up, but without inputs (steady engine braking) it gets to a point where it just falls.  The other scenario this happens is right when I'm about to pick the bike back up to finish a corner, it intermittently gets dumped every now and again.  I'm finding that slowly rolling on the throttle or keeping it steady helps minimize this a bit, but it's all intermittent, sometimes just cracking the throttle open dumps it, other times I can go hard on braking in full lean and no hassle.

I'm still on Demo, and was hoping to try some different bikes maybe that would solve the issue, but none of the 8gig + data of bikes I downloaded seems to have showed up in game.  Probably because it's just a demo...

But without finding some solution to this issue I'm having I can't justify buying the full license and really pouring the time into the game.  If it's something I'm doing wrong that's all well and good cause that would be an easy fix with practice, but it feels like it's out of my control, sometimes the bike is committed to a path of doom and once I try to straighten it back up or give it any form of alternative input it's just gonna get dumped.

Any situations similar to this and potential solutions?

h106frp

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Re: x360 controller setup? tips to not fall off everytime?
« Reply #6 on: July 23, 2017, 07:25:50 PM »
With the demo you only have the default 125 - not an easy bike, if you are on Victoria and keep falling at the bottom of Lukey heights on this bike its not unusual. The rest of the track should not be too bad although Honda turn can be a bit 'iffy'.
Most bikes do not like no throttle on a turn, try and get all your braking out of the way before the turn (front brake while turning will keep the bike upright - which you do not want) then you can use the throttle during the turn. Dragging the back brake a tiny bit can help tighten a turn and is OK while applying the throttle.

Luponius

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Re: x360 controller setup? tips to not fall off everytime?
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2017, 12:32:24 PM »
Yeah, if lukey heights is the part which shifts into a positive cambered section of road that did give me trouble for a couple hours but I figured I just needed less lean due to the positive camber.  The last turn before finish line is a place that I would fall often when trying to pick the bike up as I am about to exit the turn, under throttle roll on.  Another area is the 2nd turn (first left) after passing the finish line, it's a two apex turn I think, or at least I treat is as such for a good line, but when I ride the bike hard it pretty much puts it into this doomed state where it will never be picked back up.

Trail braking on the other hand works very well and gives good feedback, I'm enjoying almost every aspect of the game except these questionable situations where the bike is doomed (at least afaik).

MarcL

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Re: x360 controller setup? tips to not fall off everytime?
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2017, 12:28:16 AM »
With the demo you only have the default 125 - not an easy bike, if you are on Victoria and keep falling at the bottom of Lukey heights on this bike its not unusual. The rest of the track should not be too bad although Honda turn can be a bit 'iffy'.
Most bikes do not like no throttle on a turn, try and get all your braking out of the way before the turn (front brake while turning will keep the bike upright - which you do not want) then you can use the throttle during the turn. Dragging the back brake a tiny bit can help tighten a turn and is OK while applying the throttle.

Thanks for the input regarding the throttle. I was generally not off it very much, but you prompted me to fight the urge to merely lift when I felt a bit of understeer. It felt like a super simple leap to make after the fact, but I couldn't imagine how much more there was in the bike. I know tires operate at their best with an optimal amount of slip, but pushing through the urge and actually staying on the throttle and powering out way more aggressively than I used to gave me more than a second on my Varese PB at Philip Island. No idea what decent times are, I'm just going off personal progress. Very glad about the 34.2. Thanks for that little bite of information. Felt pretty awesome to finally feel the rear gently slip as I came out of corners.