Author Topic: Counter steering with FFB controller prototype WIP  (Read 390 times)

doubledragoncc

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Re: Counter steering with FFB controller prototype WIP
« Reply #15 on: July 28, 2017, 12:14:01 PM »
Set rotation to 40 degrees to start with and work from there

Have fun

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vini97

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Re: Counter steering with FFB controller prototype WIP
« Reply #16 on: July 28, 2017, 01:45:13 PM »
I was simply talking about the steering requiring more force the faster you go, Max. I called it "gyroscopic steering resistance" because the gyro forces of the wheels are the cause for the bike resisting your steering inputs.
This effect can only be replicated/simulated/felt/whatever by a controller with a separate steering axis (independet from lean axis) equipped with FFB (actual torque output, not rumble). ...Just like (temporary) misalignment of the front wheel (either due to the front tucking or the rear stepping out).
Just to be sure, What do you mean with " a controller with a separate steering axis (independet from lean axis)" ?

Because a g27 with DST 1 (torque) does exactly what you want, but there's no lean axis (unless you mean rider lean).
yes, sorry, should've clarified that.
a controller without a bike lean axis would be overall less immersive IMO.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2017, 04:39:57 PM by vini97 »
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poumpouny

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Re: Counter steering with FFB controller prototype WIP
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2017, 07:04:11 AM »
Hi guys,

So i've experienced the G29 Wheel with DST and after almost 1 week of pain and frustration (yes it is very frustrating no being able to even get out of the pit hahahaha) i fanally managed to get a full lap without crashing in victoria.
I have my "Directsteer maxtorque setting to -120 (note the negative value to get real contersteering) and maxtorque 2 to default 0.5. I'm controlling rider lean with my phone on my head (i think DST is unusable without manual rider lean controll).

After the whole week with DST, my admiration and respect to Klax increase exponentially, lol, how the hell can he ride like he does in DST and with just a Gamepad O_o. So i think the concept of DST with FFB and headtracker to controll rider lean is working for a counter steering controller, no need of a 2axis steering hardware(steer and lean). Sure it need lot of practice but once you get the setting you feel good with and get used to it, it becomes natural, like real bike IRL !

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/bnINhTu9B_Q&amp;feature=youtu.be" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/bnINhTu9B_Q&amp;feature=youtu.be</a>

HornetMaX

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Re: Counter steering with FFB controller prototype WIP
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2017, 08:17:40 AM »
Hi guys,

So i've experienced the G29 Wheel with DST and after almost 1 week of pain and frustration (yes it is very frustrating no being able to even get out of the pit hahahaha) i fanally managed to get a full lap without crashing in victoria.
I have my "Directsteer maxtorque setting to -120 (note the negative value to get real contersteering) and maxtorque 2 to default 0.5. I'm controlling rider lean with my phone on my head (i think DST is unusable without manual rider lean controll).

Did you try DSA instead of DST ? On the paper it should be the closest thing to the real deal.

poumpouny

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Re: Counter steering with FFB controller prototype WIP
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2017, 08:28:50 AM »
Hornet max, i tryed DSA but there is 2 major problem with DSA :

First i don't know if it's a bike geometrie problem (i'm Using Manu's 2017 moto 2) but the bike keep woobling all the way, i think it's not a problem but it just work as it is supposed to be (match the Virtual handle bar with my Wheel). With DST, only the torque (force generated by the bike steering and the bike Weight) is sent to your Wheel, not every microscopic angle change in the steering, like DSA does, also with DSA when changing direction quickly, like in  a chicane, you really feel the force you need to apply to the bike to change direction.

Second Throtle doesn't help to keep the bike up when leaning (DST does, as IRL also).

doubledragoncc

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Re: Counter steering with FFB controller prototype WIP
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2017, 08:37:38 AM »
Great work PP

Just started using EdTracker on the shoulder for body movement and will be trying with another on head for look. EdTracker is so good to setup and use.

DD
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HornetMaX

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Re: Counter steering with FFB controller prototype WIP
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2017, 09:01:50 AM »
Hornet max, i tryed DSA but there is 2 major problem with DSA :

First i don't know if it's a bike geometrie problem (i'm Using Manu's 2017 moto 2) but the bike keep woobling all the way, i think it's not a problem but it just work as it is supposed to be (match the Virtual handle bar with my Wheel).
Could come from other things too. At speed, the useful steering range is very small, a few degrees. Is this the problem ?

With DST, only the torque (force generated by the bike steering and the bike Weight) is sent to your Wheel, not every microscopic angle change in the steering, like DSA does,
Well, with DST, you send evey microscopic change to the torque.
What's the problem ? DSA too sensitive ?

also with DSA when changing direction quickly, like in  a chicane, you really feel the force you need to apply to the bike to change direction.
You meant DSA or DST ?
Anyway, you should feel the same force with DST and DSA as they have the same FFB.

Second Throtle doesn't help to keep the bike up when leaning (DST does, as IRL also).
Hmm that depends on the bike geometry (and with DSA you'll have to let the wheel a bit loose to allow that).

poumpouny

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Re: Counter steering with FFB controller prototype WIP
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2017, 09:39:24 AM »
HornetMax :

Quote
Quote from: poumpouny on Today at 08:28:50 AM
Hornet max, i tryed DSA but there is 2 major problem with DSA :

First i don't know if it's a bike geometrie problem (i'm Using Manu's 2017 moto 2) but the bike keep woobling all the way, i think it's not a problem but it just work as it is supposed to be (match the Virtual handle bar with my Wheel).

Could come from other things too. At speed, the useful steering range is very small, a few degrees. Is this the problem ?

The problem is that the Wheel never get stable, even on the Mugello long straigh, it is woobling, you have to counter this all the way, wich does'n happen in DST, in DST the bike only wooble when you hit to high kerb, to much acceleration on corner out, hard braking etc .... tonight, i'll try other bike to be sure it's not the bike

Quote
Quote from: poumpouny on Today at 08:28:50 AM
With DST, only the torque (force generated by the bike steering and the bike Weight) is sent to your Wheel, not every microscopic angle change in the steering, like DSA does,

Well, with DST, you send evey microscopic change to the torque.
What's the problem ? DSA too sensitive

Yes but microscopic torque you don't even notice, but microscopic angle, because of the very small steering angle at high speed, it influence your driving a lot,


Quote from: poumpouny on Today at 08:28:50 AM
also with DSA when changing direction quickly, like in  a chicane, you really feel the force you need to apply to the bike to change direction.

You meant DSA or DST ?
Anyway, you should feel the same force with DST and DSA as they have the same FFB.
Quote

Sorry i mean DST

Quote
Second Throtle doesn't help to keep the bike up when leaning (DST does, as IRL also).

Hmm that depends on the bike geometry (and with DSA you'll have to let the wheel a bit loose to allow that).

in my case whatever acceleration i give, it doesnt affect the bike balance at all !

DD, yes it is really a game changer to controll the rider lean with you own body ! on your CBR frame it could be excellent !


HornetMaX

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Re: Counter steering with FFB controller prototype WIP
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2017, 01:07:07 PM »
The problem is that the Wheel never get stable, even on the Mugello long straigh, it is woobling, you have to counter this all the way
Does this happen with FFB off ?
If with FFB off it doesn't happen, then it's something for PiBoSo to have a look to (assuming it doesn't come from the bike, of course).