Author Topic: First person simulator server  (Read 2095 times)

HornetMaX

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Re: First person simulator server
« Reply #30 on: August 22, 2017, 01:57:25 PM »
What I am saying to those who consider aids in GPB a cheat is that there are riders who due to controller limitations cannot ride in GPB without at least one rider aid, namely the "Shift Help" aid if they are riding the classic bikes that need a manual throttle and clutch action when changing down gears.
Joypad => problem solved, you can use manual clutch.

BTW: Your wrong partly about "Shift Help" action in GPB: it also operates a clutch action too during a gear change.
Could be. How did you verify that ? Debug mode ?

Plus there are many advantages for a rider who can use a manual clutch to control, like controlling the application of power and rear wheel slides, etc, etc that a rider using "Shift Help" alone cannot do....
That's wrong. You're mixing "using shift help" with "using manual clutch".
You can have shift help ON and still use manual clutch (not sure if that really allows you to have any advantage though).

What you are saying is: I cannot use manual clutch (because my controller doesn't allow me to do so), so shift help is not cheating. On the other hand, 3rd person view is cheating.

It's inconsistent, even from a "sim-fan" point of view: you ask for 1st person as it's the true way to us the sim, but then you say "sorry, I can't use manual clutch, give me shift help" ?! It sounds strange.

I'd be happy with:
  • Upshifting requiring to use the clutch or lift the throttle, unless the bike has a shifter
  • Downshifting requiring to use the clutch, unless the bike has as seamless gearbox
  • If Shift Help is ON, then you can upshift and downshift freely (even if the bike has no shifter/seamless). Ideally it should make you lose a bit of time (like the Auto Shift does) compared to a "perfect" shift.

Once that is in place, people could really say: hardcore = shift help off. And it will be hard to fight that.
Today there's not much point as shift help ON or OFF you can still downshift like a pig at no cost.

P.S.
If I recall correctly, GPB gearbox sim had other issues too (like not allowing to downshift when a reverse torque is applied from the wheel to the engine and the clutch is disengaged).
I think PiBoSo himself once stated gearbox sim could enjoy some attention from him :)

tchemi

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Re: First person simulator server
« Reply #31 on: August 22, 2017, 02:15:31 PM »
Funny, I'm faster in 1st P than in 3rd P. And I think the same apply to a lot of riders.
The idea is good, but the best is to be faster in 1P than other people in 3rdp, no ??
I definitely agree with you mate, but what aids do you use?  :)
Shift help only ^^

...
Personally i am still waiting for a 1st person only championship that more than about 3 people would take part in. Then we can all be amazed at Warlocks outstanding ability. #Hero  :)
Wait ! What ?? !!!   I was thinking that the great majority of riders were using 1st P.  Still, I don't think 3rdP gives any advantage.


To talk about clutch. Clutch is not mandatory to upshift nor downshift on a real bike. It is just very uncomfortable and hard to downshift without, but still doable.
Anyway, I tried the option 'preload' and it does nothing. Also, with zero aids, GPB seems to help you with changing gear... Strange

Also, I would recommend to keep shift help on because once you stall your bike, you cannot restart it unless you reset your bike ! Too bad !

-aGy-

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Re: First person simulator server
« Reply #32 on: August 22, 2017, 03:01:32 PM »
3rd p cam gives you some advantage for sure. 1st p cam is the way to go if you truly want simulator experience! but everybody play like they play.maybe someday we have online stats/timing which shows what view do you use on your fastlaps because times between 1stp and 3stp can not be compared.

Hawk

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Re: First person simulator server
« Reply #33 on: August 22, 2017, 03:21:59 PM »
What I am saying to those who consider aids in GPB a cheat is that there are riders who due to controller limitations cannot ride in GPB without at least one rider aid, namely the "Shift Help" aid if they are riding the classic bikes that need a manual throttle and clutch action when changing down gears.
Joypad => problem solved, you can use manual clutch.
Joypad is rubbish.... sticks are too small a movement for a given distance so you can't get a really smooth small precise action. If I was going to change I would buy an HS2 from DD.  :)

BTW: Your wrong partly about "Shift Help" action in GPB: it also operates a clutch action too during a gear change.
Could be. How did you verify that ? Debug mode ?

Yes.
One other thing I did note in debug mode, was that the slipper clutch partially disengaging the main clutch either isn't simulated or not showing in debug mode on the clutch engage/disengage bar - This has been reported to Piboso but not acknowledged.
My intention was to use the debug mode to get the ideal slipper clutch settings but no can do with it how it is currently. :(

Plus there are many advantages for a rider who can use a manual clutch to control, like controlling the application of power and rear wheel slides, etc, etc that a rider using "Shift Help" alone cannot do....
That's wrong. You're mixing "using shift help" with "using manual clutch".
You can have shift help ON and still use manual clutch (not sure if that really allows you to have any advantage though).

What you are saying is: I cannot use manual clutch (because my controller doesn't allow me to do so), so shift help is not cheating. On the other hand, 3rd person view is cheating.

It's inconsistent, even from a "sim-fan" point of view: you ask for 1st person as it's the true way to us the sim, but then you say "sorry, I can't use manual clutch, give me shift help" ?! It sounds strange.

I'd be happy with:
  • Upshifting requiring to use the clutch or lift the throttle, unless the bike has a shifter
  • Downshifting requiring to use the clutch, unless the bike has as seamless gearbox
  • If Shift Help is ON, then you can upshift and downshift freely (even if the bike has no shifter/seamless). Ideally it should make you lose a bit of time (like the Auto Shift does) compared to a "perfect" shift.

Once that is in place, people could really say: hardcore = shift help off. And it will be hard to fight that.
Today there's not much point as shift help ON or OFF you can still downshift like a pig at no cost.

P.S.
If I recall correctly, GPB gearbox sim had other issues too (like not allowing to downshift when a reverse torque is applied from the wheel to the engine and the clutch is disengaged).
I think PiBoSo himself once stated gearbox sim could enjoy some attention from him :)

No I'm not wrong. Lol! ;D A rider who only uses Shift Help and cannot use manual clutch (only able to use shift help) doesn't have the benefits of a rider who is able to use a manual clutch control.
But like you say, you can use a manual clutch too(if possible) which will override the shift help clutch action(I believe it's the same for the throttle blip action too when using manual throttle to throttle-blip?).  :)

Totally agree with you on 1-3 there, but disagree with you about purposely providing a disadvantage on a shift help gear change by making it more time consuming than what would be a normal rider gear change speed for that bike..... Don't get me wrong, no one is saying to make it a perfect gear change speed, but then that's what the modern day electronics do for riders today anyway. Lol. But you can't penalise riders who need an aid just because they have to use it; something like that is not going to make a terrific difference for most riders performance anyway so why even think of penalising them for using something they have to use. It's like saying that riders who use auto-gear shifting should be penalised for using that aid? Well any racer knows that being able to change gears when you want to change them is a massive advantage over the bike automatically changing gears at certain rev limits, so the auto-gear change is a BIG disadvantage anyway.... same with all the other aids when you compare them to someone who has took the time and practice to learn how to use the fully manual controls; so again I ask why even think of penalising rider aid users? Madness when you think about it properly. :P

Oh! BTW.... If you want proof of just how much a proper clutch controller helps, have a talk with Matty(who uses an HS2 controller), he can rocket off the start grid as though he's got nitro in his tank. LOL! But that demonstrates that normal controllers haven't got that delicate precise control you need in your clutch lever action when using gamepads or other normal game controllers like you have with a real manual clutch lever. In fact you can hear the struggle of riders trying to manually operate their clutch properly off the start grids, it's so obvious that they are having issues with controlling the manual clutch smoothly at all with a game-pad or similar device.  :)


Hawk

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Re: First person simulator server
« Reply #34 on: August 22, 2017, 03:39:30 PM »
Funny, I'm faster in 1st P than in 3rd P. And I think the same apply to a lot of riders.
The idea is good, but the best is to be faster in 1P than other people in 3rdp, no ??
I definitely agree with you mate, but what aids do you use?  :)
Shift help only ^^

...
Personally i am still waiting for a 1st person only championship that more than about 3 people would take part in. Then we can all be amazed at Warlocks outstanding ability. #Hero  :)
Wait ! What ?? !!!   I was thinking that the great majority of riders were using 1st P.  Still, I don't think 3rdP gives any advantage.


To talk about clutch. Clutch is not mandatory to upshift nor downshift on a real bike. It is just very uncomfortable and hard to downshift without, but still doable.
Anyway, I tried the option 'preload' and it does nothing. Also, with zero aids, GPB seems to help you with changing gear... Strange

Also, I would recommend to keep shift help on because once you stall your bike, you cannot restart it unless you reset your bike ! Too bad !

You may get away with it on a modern bike, but would you do that on a classic bike? I certainly wouldn't let anyone ride my classic bike if they thought downshifting without using a clutch and throttle blip was an okay think to do, beside the fact that given 2-3 laps you'd more than likely have wrecked the gearbox too.

Agree that you can upshift on even a classic bike without using the clutch if you know what your doing, but it's still not a recommended thing to do, and also something that if you look at the old classic racing vids on youtube you can see them operating the clutch to change both up and down with throttle blipping. Plus as an ex-racer(1980's), I never heard of anyone recommending to change down through the gears without using the clutch on the old classic racing bikes; it would've been considered irresponsible and wreckless because of the damage it would do to the gearbox.
Have you tried throttle blipping and changing down gears without using a clutch on a classic bike? Good luck with that. Lol ;D

But yeah for sure on these modern electronic pieces of crap people buy nowadays I'm sure you can change up and down gears without using a clutch or even throttle blip; that's not a real bike though... it's a toy! Lol!  ;D ;D

« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 03:42:20 PM by Hawk »

HornetMaX

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Re: First person simulator server
« Reply #35 on: August 22, 2017, 04:16:17 PM »
One other thing I did note in debug mode, was that the slipper clutch partially disengaging the main clutch either isn't simulated or not showing in debug mode on the clutch engage/disengage bar
I think debug mode only shows the rider inputs (i.e. clutch lever) + helps / ecu stuff. The slipper clutch is mechanical, so it's not shown. Makes sense to me (but i understand you'd like to have it shown).

Joypad => problem solved, you can use manual clutch.
Joypad is rubbish.... sticks are too small a movement for a given distance so you can't get a really smooth small precise action.
A tons of players using joypads are proving every minute that you you're wrong on this. A joypad feels not smooth enough to you, because you're so accustomed to your joystick.

No I'm not wrong. Lol! ;D A rider who only uses Shift Help and cannot use manual clutch (only able to use shift help) doesn't have the benefits of a rider who is able to use a manual clutch control.
Yes you are. If you were right, then somebody could say "my control device doesn't allow me to use a steering input: can I have auto-steer?". Or auto breake. Or auto throttle.
The fact you can't use manual clutch is your decision: if you were using a joypad (like the vast majority) or dd's system (like the vast minority) you'd have no issue.
But you want to use a joystick, so ...

It's like saying that riders who use auto-gear shifting should be penalised for using that aid? Well any racer knows that being able to change gears when you want to change them is a massive advantage over the bike automatically changing gears at certain rev limits, so the auto-gear change is a BIG disadvantage anyway.... same with all the other aids when you compare them to someone who has took the time and practice to learn how to use the fully manual controls; so again I ask why even think of penalising rider aid users?
I'm not asking to penalise more: auto-shift already penalise you enough. All the other helps too, except shift help: this one doesn't penalise you at all.
So if GPB gearbox simulation was closer to reality (i.e. need for clutch to downshift on non-seamless bikes) I'd say that either one takes the time to master the usage of the clutch, or he is forced to use shift help, but with a (reasonably sized) penalty. Just like all other helps in GPB.

Oh! BTW.... If you want proof of just how much a proper clutch controller helps, have a talk with Matty(who uses an HS2 controller), he can rocket off the start grid as though he's got nitro in his tank. LOL! But that demonstrates that normal controllers haven't got that delicate precise control you need in your clutch lever action when using gamepads or other normal game controllers like you have with a real manual clutch lever. In fact you can hear the struggle of riders trying to manually operate their clutch properly off the start grids, it's so obvious that they are having issues with controlling the manual clutch smoothly at all with a game-pad or similar device.  :)
It may be for the clutch, but I guess we can all agree Alibaskin, davide74  and plenty of other fast riders have zero issues in riding fast with joypads.

You use a joystick and you think that this gives you an advantage in leaning and throttle/braking precision but as far as I can see, this is totally marginal (if there at all).
And the price to pay is not having manual clutch (plus probably some weird configuration for throttle and brakes). Bad trade-off, if you ask me, but if it suits you it's OK.

I'm just saying that asking for hardcore to allow shift help because you "need" it sounds very wrong when your need comes from the fact you use an "exotic" controller (exotic compared to the standard, which for GPB is a joypad).

Cheezus man, it's the clutch, not some minor control of a bike ... you especially (with your passion for classic bikes) you should be all for having a real clutch control.

tchemi

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Re: First person simulator server
« Reply #36 on: August 22, 2017, 05:03:51 PM »

Agree that you can upshift on even a classic bike without using the clutch if you know what your doing, bla bla bla bla bla
But yeah for sure on these modern electronic pieces of crap people buy nowadays I'm sure you can change up and down gears without using a clutch or even throttle blip; that's not a real bike though... it's a toy! Lol!  ;D ;D

Of course it is not a good thing to do. I'm just pointing out that it is doable. And, you cannot downshift if you don't blip a little.
For the upshift tho, what does an electronic shifter ? It just cut the throttle and don't act on the clutch.

Anyway, the load option doesn't work and you cannot start a bike by rolling it and lift the clutch while engaged.

HornetMaX

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Re: First person simulator server
« Reply #37 on: August 22, 2017, 05:10:29 PM »
Anyway, the load option doesn't work and you cannot start a bike by rolling it and lift the clutch while engaged.
The preload option is a bit of a mistery to me too, especially for bikes. I've never heard of manually pre-engaging a gear on bikes (and to be honest on cars neither, maybe it's a kart thing, don't know).

tchemi

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Re: First person simulator server
« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2017, 05:23:57 PM »
Anyway, the load option doesn't work and you cannot start a bike by rolling it and lift the clutch while engaged.
The preload option is a bit of a mistery to me too, especially for bikes. I've never heard of manually pre-engaging a gear on bikes (and to be honest on cars neither, maybe it's a kart thing, don't know).
What I understand when I read this option is that you can shift gears 'on fly' like IRL. You put some pressure on the shift pedal and keep it. The moment you release the gas, the next gear engage and the pedal click a little bit. Then you release the pedal and can do it again. It can be possible with a game controller. Hold the upshift button but nothing happens. Quickly release the gas and the shift engage. Now you can still hold, or release the button when you want.

HornetMaX

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Re: First person simulator server
« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2017, 08:28:28 PM »
What I understand when I read this option is that you can shift gears 'on fly' like IRL. You put some pressure on the shift pedal and keep it. The moment you release the gas, the next gear engage and the pedal click a little bit. Then you release the pedal and can do it again. It can be possible with a game controller. Hold the upshift button but nothing happens. Quickly release the gas and the shift engage. Now you can still hold, or release the button when you want.
But do you actually do that in real life on a bike ?
It doesn't sound any faster than doing it the usual way (release the gas a bit and slam the next gear in).

HornetMaX

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Re: First person simulator server
« Reply #40 on: August 22, 2017, 09:18:39 PM »
OK, so I had a quick check at Shift Help (with both the murasama and the varese). Right now, I don't see why in hell one would use it, except for cosmetic reasons.

  • On the murasama:
    • With shift help OFF you can shift up without using the clutch or lifting the throttle and down without using the clutch. To me that's OK for shifting up, but not for shifting down: clutch-less downshifting is pretty recent in motogp.
    • With shift help ON, it (slooowly) lifts the throttle shifting up (which is totally unnecessary as the murasama has a shifter), and it blips the throttle + engages (fully and slowly) the clutch when shifting down.
  • On the varese:
    • With shift help OFF you can shift up without using the clutch or lifting the throttle and down without using the clutch. To me that's not OK in both cases: you should be required to lift the throttle to shift up and to use the clutch to shift down.
    • ]With shift help ON it behaves like on the murasama. But to me that brings absolutely no advantage or ease: when shifting up with shift help OFF the bike is a bit upset (a bit too much even if you ask me) but to counter that you only need to play with the throttle (no clutch needed). When shifting down there's no need for clutch.
So bottom line: as GPB allows to shift down with no clutch anyway, at the moment there's zero reason to use shift help, no matter if you're on the murasama or on the varese.

The day GPB requires to use the clutch to shift down (except for bikes with seamless gearboxes), the you'll have either to use shift help (which is slower, good) or to use your clutch. So hardcore people could say "no shift help thanks".
And I think on bikes with no shifter you should have to lift the throttle to shift up: this seems to be already coded in GPB (as the gearbox has a DisengageMaxTorque parameter) but I don't thikn it works as expected.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 09:26:19 PM by HornetMaX »

Hawk

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Re: First person simulator server
« Reply #41 on: August 23, 2017, 10:00:56 AM »
@Max: There are also settings for the speed of disengaging and engaging the clutch during the shift help phase. There are also settings for the time span and percentage of throttle to blip during the shift help phase. I for one would rather set those values at realistic values rather than arcadey values to penalise anyone using shift help.
With your way of thinking on penalising shift help users, then why not penalise auto-rider users by making the auto-rider move slower than you can with manual rider operation? Same with other aids too? See... it doesn't make sense in a simulator; I'd rather have realistic operation no matter whether it's an aid in use or not, and then have a server admin option to turn off all the aids individually at their discretion; that would be the way to police the use of rider aids properly.

But I agree with you that the shift help aid and gearbox needs looking into because of the different requirements between modern day bikes compared to the classic bikes with which a rider should have to use a manual throttle and clutch action, particularly during the downshift phases, if they don't use shift help.
But surely the breakable gearbox would solve this issue and make riders realise they have to be careful with the gearbox when riding classic bikes and gearshift properly for the bike they are riding? Just make the gearbox wear rate shoot up during a bad downshift or upshift action when using manual clutch and throttle.

Also the "Auto-Clutch" settings on many bikemods are purposely set so that, when used, a bike is VERY slow to get away(I'm sure you set those up Max! Hehe! ;D ). But again, there is no reason for doing that; a rider using a manual clutch has such a massive advantage over auto-clutch off the start grid that no matter how good you set the auto-clutch you could never get away better than a rider who knows how to use a manual clutch off the start grid, but as it is in most cases now, the auto-clutches are being set for such a slow get away that riders using them are often left a grid length behind at the start.... Just crazy way of thinking.
Just to set the auto-clutches at a reasonable get-away pace would be good enough; I'm not saying set them so they are equal to those who get a good start of the grid using manual clutches, but a good average would be more sensible than a crawl, plus at the same time it would probably help reduce start grid collisions with the slow start auto-clutch users.

But yeah, I do agree that these things need looking at.  :)


HornetMaX

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Re: First person simulator server
« Reply #42 on: August 23, 2017, 11:20:12 AM »
@Max: There are also settings for the speed of disengaging and engaging the clutch during the shift help phase. There are also settings for the time span and percentage of throttle to blip during the shift help phase. I for one would rather set those values at realistic values rather than arcadey values to penalise anyone using shift help.
I'll have to double check, but I think there are two groups of settings: on group is for the gearbox (+eventual shifter) and one for shift help. Of course the first group must be set to realistic values. My point is on the second: a player that chooses to use shift help should have slower shifts than a (good) player not using shift help. And it's currently like that.

With your way of thinking on penalising shift help users, then why not penalise auto-rider users by making the auto-rider move slower than you can with manual rider operation? Same with other aids too? See... it doesn't make sense in a simulator; I'd rather have realistic operation no matter whether it's an aid in use or not, and then have a server admin option to turn off all the aids individually at their discretion; that would be the way to police the use of rider aids properly.
But it's *already* like that !! Rider auto lean fwd/back penalises you for example, because it has a fairly silly strategy (tuck-in only if throttle open and above whichever speed).
Other aids too makes you slower (auto breake, auto shift etc) even more.

But I agree with you that the shift help aid and gearbox needs looking into because of the different requirements between modern day bikes compared to the classic bikes with which a rider should have to use a manual throttle and clutch action, particularly during the downshift phases, if they don't use shift help.

But surely the breakable gearbox would solve this issue and make riders realise they have to be careful with the gearbox when riding classic bikes and gearshift properly for the bike they are riding? Just make the gearbox wear rate shoot up during a bad downshift or upshift action when using manual clutch and throttle.
But then you do see the problem I hope: a rider that choses to go manual has the risk of breaking the gearbox while a lazy boy like you :) using shift help has zero risk.

Also the "Auto-Clutch" settings on many bikemods are purposely set so that, when used, a bike is VERY slow to get away(I'm sure you set those up Max! Hehe! ;D ).
Right. And I like it like that. On a bike, you need a clutch (let's forget about launch control :) ).

And anyway, why do you use shift help at the moment ? Even on the varese, it's really not needed.

Out of curiosity, what do you exactly use as controller ? Which axes are mapped to what ?

Hawk

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Re: First person simulator server
« Reply #43 on: August 23, 2017, 11:56:06 AM »
@Max: There are also settings for the speed of disengaging and engaging the clutch during the shift help phase. There are also settings for the time span and percentage of throttle to blip during the shift help phase. I for one would rather set those values at realistic values rather than arcadey values to penalise anyone using shift help.
I'll have to double check, but I think there are two groups of settings: on group is for the gearbox (+eventual shifter) and one for shift help. Of course the first group must be set to realistic values. My point is on the second: a player that chooses to use shift help should have slower shifts than a (good) player not using shift help. And it's currently like that.

It's only like that if the bikemod author sets it like that... In my opinion they should be set to realistic timings(an average factor, as each rider in reality will be slightly different in the speed they change gears manually).

With your way of thinking on penalising shift help users, then why not penalise auto-rider users by making the auto-rider move slower than you can with manual rider operation? Same with other aids too? See... it doesn't make sense in a simulator; I'd rather have realistic operation no matter whether it's an aid in use or not, and then have a server admin option to turn off all the aids individually at their discretion; that would be the way to police the use of rider aids properly.
But it's *already* like that !! Rider auto lean fwd/back penalises you for example, because it has a fairly silly strategy (tuck-in only if throttle open and above whichever speed).
Other aids too makes you slower (auto breake, auto shift etc) even more.

That's only because currently the auto aids are not as functional in comparison to the manual operations, so naturally auto aids are already at a big disadvantage, so why make them poorer in operation when they are already a penalty compared to manual operation? That's presuming you want to make all auto aids very much slower in operation than what would be considered reality?

But I agree with you that the shift help aid and gearbox needs looking into because of the different requirements between modern day bikes compared to the classic bikes with which a rider should have to use a manual throttle and clutch action, particularly during the downshift phases, if they don't use shift help.

But surely the breakable gearbox would solve this issue and make riders realise they have to be careful with the gearbox when riding classic bikes and gearshift properly for the bike they are riding? Just make the gearbox wear rate shoot up during a bad downshift or upshift action when using manual clutch and throttle.
But then you do see the problem I hope: a rider that choses to go manual has the risk of breaking the gearbox while a lazy boy like you :) using shift help has zero risk.

Let's get things into perspective here...... Just like in reality, if a rider uses a clutch and throttle properly when changing gears then there is little chance of breaking the gearbox, so it would only be those riders that purposely abuse the gearbox that a failure would be likely, so that would be their own fault and not a consequence of being at a disadvantage to the auto-aid user. So you've no argument there.  ;)

Also the "Auto-Clutch" settings on many bikemods are purposely set so that, when used, a bike is VERY slow to get away(I'm sure you set those up Max! Hehe! ;D ).
Right. And I like it like that. On a bike, you need a clutch (let's forget about launch control :) ).

And anyway, why do you use shift help at the moment ? Even on the varese, it's really not needed.

Out of curiosity, what do you exactly use as controller ? Which axes are mapped to what ?

Oh! Don't get me going with bloody launch control! Hehe! We should go back to push starts in my opinion.... That would be so much more of a spectacle for the spectators, don't you think? ;D

If your not using fully manual clutch and throttle controls to operate the 2 stroke varese then you should have to use shift help with that bike for it to ride smoothly and handle well. There is no way in hell you would be able to ride a 2 stroke well with no risk of failures without using the clutch and throttle properly on the classic 2 stroke bikes(they didn't have electronics or quick shifters). For some reason Piboso has put a quickshifter on the Varese - ERROR!  :P

The four strokes a different matter altogether because they had the electronics to do that work for you, as well as TC(Pfff! Pussies).  :P  ;D

Controller I use: Thrustmaster T-Flight Hotas X. I've my lean on the left/right joystick axis and the throttle set to forward axis and brake set on the back axis of the joystick. All other buttons on the joystick assembly are on/off buttons not analogue..... I could set my clutch on the Throttle assembly of my joystick unit which is a totally separate piece of kit, but as I hold the main joystick assembly in my hand to operate it that is not possible.
But I have tried gamepads and even have an xbox controller too, but I like smooth predictable precision movements and they don't provide it by a long way because the sticks movement of the bike lean angles is too much for the little travel they have, and I also like the angle of the stick to represent the angle of the bike when I operate it; that's my frame of reference.  :)

« Last Edit: August 23, 2017, 12:14:31 PM by Hawk »

HornetMaX

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Re: First person simulator server
« Reply #44 on: August 23, 2017, 12:13:33 PM »
I'm fine with current aids (just think the current auto-rider lean fwd/back looks ugly), I think they penalise you enough.
And for sure I don't want them to be made more efficient, even if it was possible. But I think that saying "hardcore must allow shift help" makes no sense.

Let's get things into perspective here...... Just like in reality, if a rider uses a clutch and throttle properly when changing gears then there is little chance of breaking the gearbox, so it would only be those riders that purposely abuse the gearbox that a failure would be likely, so that would be their own fault and not a consequence of being at a disadvantage to the auto-aid user. So you've no argument there.  ;)
Unless properly using the clutch to shift down (and the throttle to shift up) involves some degree of skill, which is likely. In that case, shift help kind of negates that. Hence the people that are in favor of saying "hardcore = no shift help".

If your not using fully manual clutch and throttle controls to operate the 2 stroke varese then you should have to use shift help with that bike for it to ride smoothly and handle well. There is no way in hell you would be able to ride a 2 stroke well with no risk of failures without using the clutch and throttle properly on the classic 2 stroke bikes(they didn't have electronics or quick shifters).
You don't need the clutch to shift up, you just need to lift the throttle. Even on a 2 strokes.

BTW, you forgot to answer that:
Out of curiosity, what do you exactly use as controller ? Which axes are mapped to what ?