Author Topic: Is Open-Modding good for developers?  (Read 292 times)

Hawk

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Is Open-Modding good for developers?
« on: November 14, 2018, 09:28:13 AM »
Looking at the results of developers releasing titles that allow for full-on open modding by the modding community, I'm personally torn about this subject in this day and age where there are many free and/or cheap alternative software applications that allow for raw amateur and often first-time modders to openly try their hand at creating mods for many game/sim titles, much of which are born from openly ripped content from other developers game titles.

But I'm more concerned with the practice of developers allowing fully open access modding for their product releases because much of the mod content although it can be useful in providing a quick array of usable content for a product is in general(let's face it) barring a few exceptions, of a very low standard; and personally speaking, low-standard content does not bode very well in promoting a good product?
I'm basically suggesting that an open modding policy promotes a large product catalogue of very poor standard mod-content that in actual fact damages the reputation and sale-ability of a product?

So this begs the question: Wouldn't it be much more prudent for developers to make sure that anyone/team of modders that wanted to develop mods for their title had to be approved by the developer of that particular title before they could create a mod for it? This would make sure that the modder concerned was capable of producing mods to the standard the developer wants to see for their product and not have their product littered with huge amounts of sub-standard mods that make their product look as though it was developed back in the late 80's?

Some developers are already working on these principles.... One in particular comes to mind in Eagle Dynamics who produce DCS World Combat Flight simulator, and I also believe that Studio 397 who develop rFactor 2 are now steering heavily towards the same type of mod managing format to make sure the content for their product is up to a good standard too.

But basically, yeah, I think this is the way to go for all developers who wish modders to create great content for their products..... and I also think that by managing their products in this way the developers attract the best modders in the genre too, the modders also get the opportunity to make a genuine living from their work(depending on how popular the developers product is)which is a win win for everyone concerned.

What are your thoughts on this guys? :)

« Last Edit: November 14, 2018, 09:34:57 AM by Hawk »

bison160

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Re: Is Open-Modding good for developers?
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2018, 02:17:37 PM »
Its what drove me crazy and why I decided to never actually release anything for rfactor. Even though there were sites like rfcentral that tried to organize things, it didn't stay updated for long. Not only was there a ton of content to try to keep up with updates, different versions, etc, 99% of it was trash. Ripped from other older games or made quickly in Bobs Track Builder. Most cars didn't have any attention to detail and none of the features worked, sounds hodge podged together, no working guages etc. It was just a mess so I decided to steer clear.

Even though WRS has almost no mods, I'm already seeing negative effects of it being open mod. I haven't announced officially anywhere else but on these forums that I am working on a Dirt Latemodel mod specifically for WRS, but there are a handful of people that follow my page on FB and also have seen my posts on here that bought WRS specifically for my mod even though I told them they should probably wait in case PiBoSo doesn't provide the needed features. In which case I would not release my mod for WRS. Although I have not released anything, I have had people message me after playing WRS and tell me that my graphics look old and dated and the tracks are not very good. :o ::) Hopefully everything comes together for PiBoSo and WRS and I can release some good quality content which would be good for PiBoSo in that case.

As far as the original question is it good for developers? You almost have to look at the specific game and content to honestly answer that, and I'm not sure its something that can be answered without hindsight. WRS Specifically? I don't think WRS would ever take off without open modding. He clearly doesn't have the time to produce the amount of content it takes to be a popular sim on its own, and was probably released knowing that and relying on a modding community. If the sim is released and the developers plan on releasing enough content to sell the game on its own, I think they would be better off not allowing modding, or at least restricting it.

poumpouny

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Re: Is Open-Modding good for developers?
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2018, 02:46:28 PM »
I think only popular game such as Assetto Corsa, DCS World and ARMA 3 can make such a descision, cause they have lots of talented modder and is already popular, i don't think GPB/WRS or any PIBOSO title can be that restrictive about modding ........

Grooveski

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Re: Is Open-Modding good for developers?
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2018, 03:56:12 PM »
If it's a straight variety vs quality choice I'll take variety.  There are plenty of half-finished, buggy or antique tracks in GPB that I've had a gas playing nonetheless.   :)

Modern games take more work to mod for and there are a wider variety of jobs for the modder to learn. 
For instance, even at it's simpilest making shaders is tricky.  Even once I'd got used to CrazyBump and was happy with what I was seeing in it, the shaders don't always look the same in GPB, so as well as learning CB you have to learn how GPB will display things.

[For the curious - the variation comes about mainly at low settings.  A 10% master bump setting in CB may make a white line look great but in GPB it'll still look flat.  Cranking the master up to 20% may make it look over the top in CB but just right in GPB.]

It's a trivialty but still something you have to get used to - which takes time and practice.

Software houses will often have teams where a modeller will hand off to a skinner who may or may not be the same person who does the shaders, some other dude might plant the trees and someone else does the cameras...
...whereas the modding scene has more generalists than specialists. 

I've done the mod team thing before and it's great for both productivity and quality.
...but by teaming up you lose independence.  "Tonight I better get that whatsit done that whatsisname is waiting on." rather than "Tonight I think I'll faff about making a big-wibbly-wobbly-bananaman.".
...so creativity takes a hit, and because you're not always working on a project that you personaly want to be working on you might find yourself keeping up standards because of peer pressure rather than passion for the project.
...which was sometimes a bit too much like a real job for my liking.

Jeez, look at all that drivel.  Sorry for rambling.

In short - I'm glad GPB is a modder platform and that no-one's tried to stop me releasing anything because it hasn't met their standards.
...or simply because they're not finished.  Neither of the tracks I've done have had puddles, 3D grass, properly worki8ng pitlanes......   :-[

If I don't like a mod I just don't play it.
...and if I have to play it(as part of a series) it rarely bothers me.  I just get on with it and look forward to the next round.
Come to think of it - even if the next round might be the same(like when the Moto2 frames were breaking) I'm still pretty tolerant.  ;D

...wheras I don't even go to the other end of the scale.  The closer Star Citizen gets to completion the less likely it seems I'll spend much time playing it.
I'll no doubt buy the single player campaign but the multi-player.?   ::)
...initial purchase, buying ships for real money, insurance policies...
Yeah, right!  Perhaps you'd like me to turn around and bend over while you process my credit card detail?.   ;)

Grooveski

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Re: Is Open-Modding good for developers?
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2018, 03:58:44 PM »
None of which has anything to do with open modding being good for developers.   ;D

Talk about getting sidetracked..... ::)

tirespin24

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Re: Is Open-Modding good for developers?
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2018, 06:46:28 PM »
Its what drove me crazy and why I decided to never actually release anything for rfactor. Even though there were sites like rfcentral that tried to organize things, it didn't stay updated for long. Not only was there a ton of content to try to keep up with updates, different versions, etc, 99% of it was trash. Ripped from other older games or made quickly in Bobs Track Builder. Most cars didn't have any attention to detail and none of the features worked, sounds hodge podged together, no working guages etc. It was just a mess so I decided to steer clear.

Even though WRS has almost no mods, I'm already seeing negative effects of it being open mod. I haven't announced officially anywhere else but on these forums that I am working on a Dirt Latemodel mod specifically for WRS, but there are a handful of people that follow my page on FB and also have seen my posts on here that bought WRS specifically for my mod even though I told them they should probably wait in case PiBoSo doesn't provide the needed features. In which case I would not release my mod for WRS. Although I have not released anything, I have had people message me after playing WRS and tell me that my graphics look old and dated and the tracks are not very good. :o ::) Hopefully everything comes together for PiBoSo and WRS and I can release some good quality content which would be good for PiBoSo in that case.

As far as the original question is it good for developers? You almost have to look at the specific game and content to honestly answer that, and I'm not sure its something that can be answered without hindsight. WRS Specifically? I don't think WRS would ever take off without open modding. He clearly doesn't have the time to produce the amount of content it takes to be a popular sim on its own, and was probably released knowing that and relying on a modding community. If the sim is released and the developers plan on releasing enough content to sell the game on its own, I think they would be better off not allowing modding, or at least restricting it.

Dude you are so full of shit!!! ;D ;D ;D

matty0l215

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Re: Is Open-Modding good for developers?
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2018, 07:07:11 PM »
Open-modding for a game, Yes, I would say it is good. More content for a game that lacks it will definitely drive the community and sales etc.

For development, Maybe. People may look only at the quality of the mods and not like what they see and be detoured. Some sort of standards would be good but it would be difficult to enforce without driving away modders.

The current status quo works for us but Only Piboso can really change that.

bison160

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Re: Is Open-Modding good for developers?
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2018, 08:22:32 PM »
Its what drove me crazy and why I decided to never actually release anything for rfactor. Even though there were sites like rfcentral that tried to organize things, it didn't stay updated for long. Not only was there a ton of content to try to keep up with updates, different versions, etc, 99% of it was trash. Ripped from other older games or made quickly in Bobs Track Builder. Most cars didn't have any attention to detail and none of the features worked, sounds hodge podged together, no working guages etc. It was just a mess so I decided to steer clear.

Even though WRS has almost no mods, I'm already seeing negative effects of it being open mod. I haven't announced officially anywhere else but on these forums that I am working on a Dirt Latemodel mod specifically for WRS, but there are a handful of people that follow my page on FB and also have seen my posts on here that bought WRS specifically for my mod even though I told them they should probably wait in case PiBoSo doesn't provide the needed features. In which case I would not release my mod for WRS. Although I have not released anything, I have had people message me after playing WRS and tell me that my graphics look old and dated and the tracks are not very good. :o ::) Hopefully everything comes together for PiBoSo and WRS and I can release some good quality content which would be good for PiBoSo in that case.

As far as the original question is it good for developers? You almost have to look at the specific game and content to honestly answer that, and I'm not sure its something that can be answered without hindsight. WRS Specifically? I don't think WRS would ever take off without open modding. He clearly doesn't have the time to produce the amount of content it takes to be a popular sim on its own, and was probably released knowing that and relying on a modding community. If the sim is released and the developers plan on releasing enough content to sell the game on its own, I think they would be better off not allowing modding, or at least restricting it.

Dude you are so full of shit!!! ;D ;D ;D

OK? Care to enlighten me?

Phathry25

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Re: Is Open-Modding good for developers?
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2018, 09:31:34 PM »
Maybe he is talking about the one track you released for WRS that did not look good and somehow played even worse????

If youíre buying a game because it has mods you need to realize that most of it is going  to be garbage. Play one really good game, or infinite mediocre things. Iím one to say that variety is he spice of life. Clearly.

bison160

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Re: Is Open-Modding good for developers?
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2018, 12:50:15 AM »
The test track I put up just to test things...yep. its junk. Was never meant to be anything more than just that. A test of the engine and concept. There was already a flat track, I wanted a high banked one to test how cars reacted.

Funny that of all people, you would be the one to bash a fellow modders content quality. I guess I missed all of your high quality releases... ;)

« Last Edit: November 15, 2018, 01:12:58 AM by bison160 »

-aGy-

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Re: Is Open-Modding good for developers?
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2018, 05:20:51 AM »
The test track I put up just to test things...yep. its junk. Was never meant to be anything more than just that. A test of the engine and concept. There was already a flat track, I wanted a high banked one to test how cars reacted.

Funny that of all people, you would be the one to bash a fellow modders content quality. I guess I missed all of your high quality releases... ;)

release track/mods when its done no alpha or beta!problem solved!

bison160

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Re: Is Open-Modding good for developers?
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2018, 05:44:20 AM »
Agreed. At the time however, pathry along with others were just starting to work on some dirt cars, and there were hardly any tracks available, none with high banking, so I just threw it up there to help the cause and allow for testing on a higher banked track.