Author Topic: To real life ::: Racers & Track Day Riders :::  (Read 269 times)

Tosteetos

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 39
    • View Profile
To real life ::: Racers & Track Day Riders :::
« on: September 27, 2017, 01:22:33 AM »
I have a question for all of you racers and track day riders that have truly pushed your machines to the limits. How well is tire behavior represented on GPB? My question specifically pertains to trail braking...

I'm an enthusiast track day rider in the intermediate mid pace group. Coming to GPB has made me wonder how much more do I still have to reach the limits of trail braking. It may seem ridiculous, but GBP has made me a lot more confident on my bike on trail braking. I'm still wondering how much more can I push trail braking at the track and I know that the way to find out is to actually go over the limits, and inevitably that day will come. While I'm not interested in racing (yet), I'm looking to get a little faster each day.

So my question for you guys is, how does GPB compare to real life traction on the trail braking side of things?   ;D thx!
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 01:24:16 AM by Tosteetos »

KG13

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 135
    • View Profile
Re: To real life ::: Racers & Track Day Riders :::
« Reply #1 on: September 27, 2017, 06:39:53 AM »
Sorry that I write a bit aside to your question as I am not a person who pushes to the limit on the tracks but I think that it is hard to compare the game to real life. In virtual world you cant feel many things on your body like vibrations of motorcycle tyres when they are at the limit or going to loose grip. Also I think that to know the limit of the tire you must be aware that you might risk a fall or even fall. In the last winter I've spent a lot of time training on pitbikes what gave me a lot of confidence and I was surprised how much stress can stand a warmed up tire. Of course it is hard to compare the pit bike slick tire and a normal motorcycle tire, but it also gave me a confidence on the track. One thing is only important to have a good warmed up tire. Its my personal observation.

Stout Johnson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 668
    • View Profile
Re: To real life ::: Racers & Track Day Riders :::
« Reply #2 on: September 27, 2017, 07:11:13 AM »
I have a question for all of you racers and track day riders that have truly pushed your machines to the limits. How well is tire behavior represented on GPB? My question specifically pertains to trail braking...
First off, I am not a real life motorcycle racer myself, I would consider myself a decent rider (similar to you medium paced group on track days) who reflects his riding style. In terms of trail braking I would say that GPB does a really good job (unlike on power slides where GPB is not very realistic imo). The only gripe with trail braking in GPB from my perspective is, that the virtual rider does not seem to be able to find a steady state where the slide is countered by counter-steering and the bike remains relatively steady while sliding into the corner (like you see esp. in Moto2 or with M.Marquez). The virtual rider seems to always 'overshoot' in terms of the steering corrections because (from my understanding) the virtual rider is not designed to slide into a corner. The virtual rider will always seek a situation without slides (at least this seems to be the tendency from what I see, only Piboso knows how the VR really is programmed). If one would be able to fully use the 'direct steer' method in GPB (e.g. with a realistic motorcycle controller) and therefore avoid the virtual rider, I think one could pull off trail braking like in Moto2.
    -----------   WarStout Kawasaki Team   -----------

KG13

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 135
    • View Profile
Re: To real life ::: Racers & Track Day Riders :::
« Reply #3 on: September 27, 2017, 09:01:16 AM »
I use auto left right balance...but I wonder if its possible to make powerslide when using manual balance. Unfortunately I don't have so many sticks on my game pad to control everything to check it... Still riding a motorcycle is hard to copy to virtual world bcs as I wrote b4 it engages so many senses, and many things we do undeliberately that its hard to implement it in virtual world.

vini97

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1484
  • und dann vollgas
    • View Profile
Re: To real life ::: Racers & Track Day Riders :::
« Reply #4 on: September 27, 2017, 11:30:16 AM »
The only gripe with trail braking in GPB from my perspective is, that the virtual rider does not seem to be able to find a steady state where the slide is countered by counter-steering and the bike remains relatively steady while sliding into the corner (like you see esp. in Moto2 or with M.Marquez).
I haven't found this to be true and I think Tosteetos was more talking about braking at the limit of the front tyre, not sliding the rear supermoto-style.
I agree on the powerslides, they require quite unrealistic throttle input, although it has gotten better in this beta.

Funnily enough, I have also noticed that GPB has improved my real-life riding and confidence in my bike. ...Not a track rider, though.
es gibt nur ein gas

Joeski

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72
    • View Profile
Re: To real life ::: Racers & Track Day Riders :::
« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2017, 11:54:17 AM »
I'm by no means a fast rider and only really concentrated on trail braking in the last couple of years, but what I have found is that i've been leaning more and more on the front tyre and yet to lose any traction whatsoever. I'd consider myself a fairly smooth rider so rarely have any moments with loss of traction at either end of the bike, so this helps I guess.

What i've noticed with GPBikes is that the gyroscopic effect of trail braking into corners seems to be quite good...grab a little too much front brake and the bike wants to stand up and therefor push you wide of the apex. This is true for track riding as well.

It's amazing how hard you can actually push a front tyre trailing into corners, but the key is smoothness. You constantly hear stories in the pitlane of trackday hero's "losing the front" or "sliding the rear" and I'd suggest 90% of these are simply because the rider inputs are too wild and not smooth enough, as opposed to the tyre being at it's limit. This is similar to GPB, where you more than likely are taking bigger risks than real life and as a result, more aggressive inputs to the steering/brakes.

I don't really know what my point is here, just some waffle to add to the equation I guess....
Life's not a dress rehearsal, you only get one lap; why not make it a good one?

Stout Johnson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 668
    • View Profile
Re: To real life ::: Racers & Track Day Riders :::
« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2017, 04:36:24 PM »
The only gripe with trail braking in GPB from my perspective is, that the virtual rider does not seem to be able to find a steady state where the slide is countered by counter-steering and the bike remains relatively steady while sliding into the corner (like you see esp. in Moto2 or with M.Marquez).
I haven't found this to be true and I think Tosteetos was more talking about braking at the limit of the front tyre, not sliding the rear supermoto-style.
I agree on the powerslides, they require quite unrealistic throttle input, although it has gotten better in this beta.

Funnily enough, I have also noticed that GPB has improved my real-life riding and confidence in my bike. ...Not a track rider, though.
You are right Tosteetos probably talked about trail braking in general. Btw, nice brake slide there in your video. Did you use the rear brake or did you do it with the engine brake alone. But you have to admit it is a mod bike, so that does not really count in my book. ; ) With the Murasama that is not really possible...
    -----------   WarStout Kawasaki Team   -----------

vini97

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1484
  • und dann vollgas
    • View Profile
Re: To real life ::: Racers & Track Day Riders :::
« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2017, 05:05:47 PM »
the mura is a shit bike in general with worse physics data than the mod bikes.
just engine brake.
es gibt nur ein gas

h106frp

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1633
    • View Profile
Re: To real life ::: Racers & Track Day Riders :::
« Reply #8 on: September 27, 2017, 06:11:22 PM »
It is possible to define a front tyre that slides under very heavy braking and gives that classis 'wash out' under cornering extreme loads but you do need to change some of the parameters significantly from default. I had a set running on an R6 test bbike with b11

Stout Johnson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 668
    • View Profile
Re: To real life ::: Racers & Track Day Riders :::
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2017, 06:37:07 PM »
It is possible to define a front tyre that slides under very heavy braking and gives that classis 'wash out'
That's what I miss in the default GPB bikes. It is really hard to have a front washout at all in GPB. It is the most common cause for crashes in real life bike racing, but it's almost impossible to lose your front on the brake in GPB (talking default bikes). For me the default bikes from Piboso have to have realistic bike and tyre physics. Piboso's bikes should give a reference of the physics. Imo, the mod bikes should not be there to make up for lack of realistic physics...
« Last Edit: September 27, 2017, 06:42:15 PM by Stout Johnson »
    -----------   WarStout Kawasaki Team   -----------