Author Topic: Rider weight!  (Read 420 times)

Serge Dagher

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Re: Rider weight!
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2017, 11:26:47 AM »

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Has been my first (and second) bike. I'm on a cb1000r at the moment.

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before i bought my first bike, i always thought the hornet would be it!

Came close to owning a Cb1000r (white with black trim) in 2011, but never happened... and now that finances are not an issue, unfortunately where i live the market is not big on naked bikes, so dealership won't import the model!


Concerning the suggestion: it's probably very easy to implement but (personally) I think it doesn't bring anything worth.

I could eventually vote for something like 3 rider types (a Dani, a Marc and a Cal) with their own weight and their own 3d rider model: I don't think it will make any measurable difference physics-wise, but at least we wouldn't see a grid full of physically identical riders. But of course that is a bit trickier (you'd need 3 3d rider models).


the suggestion was simply from a Keeping-it-real point of view, obviously the physics are working great (for me), and i just thought about it because of the MaxHud display option for suspension - i thought what is it taking into account when displaying the "weight" exerted on the suspension!??

Stout Johnson

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Re: Rider weight!
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2017, 11:41:46 AM »
Max does your nickname mean that you have a honda hornet?

...and back to the suggestion part of this topic, so would it make sense to have an option in the game to choose rider weight and height(with certain limitations to the parameters allowed)?
[...]

Concerning the suggestion: it's probably very easy to implement but (personally) I think it doesn't bring anything worth.
Definitely agree. The suspension and especially the tyre physics in GPB are not refined enough at the moment (I know Piboso is trying, but still it is the truth). At the moment in GPB you can go to the track with the Murasama without TC and you can pretty much attack from corner 1 on without having to worry about warming the tyres... that says enough.
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vini97

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Re: Rider weight!
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2017, 02:28:33 PM »
Quote
Marco Simoncelli and Valentino Rossi had submitted an informal proposal to the Safety Commission to examine having a combined minimum weight for both bike and rider in MotoGP, just as there currently is in the 125cc class. Their argument was that lighter riders had an unfair advantage, and that by setting a minimum weight, the larger riders would have a better chance of competing.

That's not me saying it, it comes from a couple of pretty competent chaps :)

So yes, in very specific conditions (wet + weird tyres) a lighter rider may have a disadvantage, but overall ...
And even with that, I don't think heavier riders have an advantage when braking or when "manhandling the bike around".
Most of the seat problems can be solved too: unless you require for Dani to be able to put both feet down while on the bike, of course :)
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Again you're ignoring the fact that Stout already pointed out:
Yes, less weight is an advantage but only up to a certain point. Dani is past that point, other riders like Rossi would never get close to that point. Michelin would have to give Dani his own special tyres for every so that he can make use of his "advantage".  But even then, a 51kg body operating a MotoGP bike is simpy very close to its physical limit, hence why Dani almost had to retire in the Bridgestone era because his forearms couldn't handle the hard braking. He is also very lucky that Marquez is relatively small as well and that consequently the Honda is still optimized for midget riders (stemming from the 800cc days where Dani was #1).
And no matter how agile these bikes are, changing direction at 250+ km/h takes a lot of effort and it's significantly harder when you have less leverage on the handlebar (shorter limbs) and less control over the CoG of the bike in general.
Adding balast to the bike or Dani gaining some fat would maybe solve the tyre temperature issues but then riding the bike will be even harder for him.

Definitely agree. The suspension and especially the tyre physics in GPB are not refined enough at the moment (I know Piboso is trying, but still it is the truth). At the moment in GPB you can go to the track with the Murasama without TC and you can pretty much attack from corner 1 on without having to worry about warming the tyres... that says enough.
I can't say anything about the Mura but this is definitely not the case for the MotoGP bikes. Tyre pressure/temperature makes a lot of difference in how the tyres grip and not being in the optimal range is clearly noticable.
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HornetMaX

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Re: Rider weight!
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2017, 04:10:50 PM »
Yes, less weight is an advantage but only up to a certain point. Dani is past that point
Marquez is "only" 8kg more and I don't see him struggling that much.
Dani could easily put some kg on himself: not a beer belly of course, but these are pro riders, gaining 5kg can be achieved easily.
He never did it: why?

vini97

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Re: Rider weight!
« Reply #34 on: October 12, 2017, 04:37:49 PM »
Marquez has a much stronger build and he can generate the necessary tyre temperature with his extreme riding style. He is also taller which gives him more leverage.
Gaining 5kg of muscles when you're only 51kg and already a pro athlete (past your prime) cannot be achieved easily, at least not without illegal tricks.

« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 04:43:50 PM by vini97 »
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HornetMaX

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Re: Rider weight!
« Reply #35 on: October 12, 2017, 06:46:19 PM »
Marquez has a much stronger build and he can generate the necessary tyre temperature with his extreme riding style. He is also taller which gives him more leverage.
Extreme riding style in the rain ?!

Gaining 5kg of muscles when you're only 51kg and already a pro athlete (past your prime) cannot be achieved easily, at least not without illegal tricks.
No illegal trick, it's very, very doable.

Meyer#12

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Re: Rider weight!
« Reply #36 on: October 12, 2017, 07:59:59 PM »
I tend to agree with MAX  here having been in that state near to pro athelte with professional training program.
5kg can easily be gained by Pedrosa. Racers are training for durability more than big and powerful muscles. Changing your training to less reps with heavier weights and pedrosa will fast gain muscle mass and get bigger.. if you look at the riders they are not big and muscular but rather slim and fit.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 09:14:15 PM by Meyer#12 »
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Stout Johnson

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Re: Rider weight!
« Reply #37 on: October 12, 2017, 08:16:51 PM »
Marquez has a much stronger build and he can generate the necessary tyre temperature with his extreme riding style. He is also taller which gives him more leverage.
Extreme riding style in the rain ?!

Gaining 5kg of muscles when you're only 51kg and already a pro athlete (past your prime) cannot be achieved easily, at least not without illegal tricks.
No illegal trick, it's very, very doable.
If we take it literally (gaining 10% of your body weight in lean muscle mass, no fat) then I have to say it is a very hard feat to achieve without PED's, unless the person trying to achieve the feat is a couch potato or a skinny 14 year old. But if you are in your 30s and already well trained, it is hard to achieve. Believe me, I have done it and it took me over 2 years. But it would probably be sufficient, if he gained 5% in muscle mass and 5% in body fat, in that ratio it would still be reasonably active mass. But as mentioned before, without the height it would only be of marginal help.

And concerning the riding style in rain, for me it is clear (like mentioned before) that with more height you can put more strain on the tyres with less effort. That relation obviously is not linear, which probably is why there are other relatively small riders that do ok in the rain or are even great like Marquez. Dani obviously seems to be under the threshold. For Marquez his aggressive riding style (of course less aggressive in the rain, but still more agressive than other riders in the rain) seems to be plus in terms of tyre temperatures. That is also why Marquez is one of the few riders who uses the hard compound more often than others, because he gets it into the working temperature window when others cannot. And it also seems to be more than a coincidence that taller riders like Baz, Redding, Miller, Rossi are especially good in the rain.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2017, 08:20:18 PM by Stout Johnson »
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