Author Topic: Project Realistic Rig  (Read 8819 times)

doubledragoncc

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Re: Project Realistic Rig
« Reply #15 on: February 01, 2018, 11:14:25 PM »
I have a guy coming over to try the system tomorrow so can we talk on Sunday. I can also make a wiring diagram for you too.

DD
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poumpouny

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Re: Project Realistic Rig
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2018, 06:15:42 AM »
I think the only way you could really mimic real life bike handling is the following :

have a bike frame monted on a motion system (i think even 2 Dof is enough) with the axis of rotation on the wheel position. the motion system will be receiving the bike leaning information from gpbikes.

Then you have a handlebar mounted like the way it would be in real life with a ffb motor and electronically locked at 20° when you reach 40 km/h. it will directly controll the steering input on gpbikes.

Then you'll have an ed tracker mounted on your head or your shoulder that will input the rider lean to gpbike.

The steering input plus the rider lean input will dictated the bike lean angle wich will be outpouted by gpbikes to the frame motion system.


With that system, you'll solve the problem of the missing gyroscope force wich will be not present as in real life because you have just to turn the steering the opposite side when you want to go back straight after leanin, to also limit the effort you have to make when staying at full lean position, you can limit the frame leaning angle to a smaller angle than IRL.

The main problem with that rig is of course the price !
The second one is that nobody is producing such a rig till now so you have to make it yourself.

So i think you if you are not a millionaire, and don't have Einstein's QI (wich i think 90% of normal people are) then DD's handle bar is the perfect solution.


doubledragoncc

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Re: Project Realistic Rig
« Reply #17 on: February 02, 2018, 10:26:50 AM »
Thanks for the compliment PP

You need to use the edtracker on the shoulder NOT the head as I have fully tested it and have a harness design that works fine for it.

Price is always the point here. I will not be having that problem at Holovis lol, BUT, you MUST limit lean of the system or it becomes VERY dangerous as there is no force of nature to keep you in the seat and on the bike as you can NOT replicate the speed of movement unless you have a great big building and MILLIONS to build it lol.

The biggest issue that many have is understanding handlebar input amount. You can not use the small amout that a real bike uses in real life as it would be worse than a gamepad for sensetivity. If you keep the input axis on the horizontal you will then be making unrealistic amounts of turn on the bars to keep control of the bike. Using force will also be over sensitve as you can not control it in such small amounts and once again you will have too much sensetivity.

It is truely the hardest thing to get perfect and people need to understand you MUST compromise or you will just make a dangerous and over sensitive system.

DD
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Vini

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Re: Project Realistic Rig
« Reply #18 on: February 02, 2018, 03:58:43 PM »
I don't think a full motion system with a movable bike frame is the way to go. Way too expensive, complex and slow and it will not be anymore realistic than VR + DD's pendular system (with an additional vertical steering axis). Without centrifugal forces this is the most real it gets IMO.
For the rider movement control I still think a mat with pressure sensors would be ideal since you move around on your chair automatically anyhow.

The biggest issue that many have is understanding handlebar input amount. You can not use the small amout that a real bike uses in real life as it would be worse than a gamepad for sensetivity.
Of course the steering input needs to be torque based not position/angle based.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 04:26:46 PM by vini97 »

doubledragoncc

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Re: Project Realistic Rig
« Reply #19 on: February 02, 2018, 04:13:23 PM »
Sorry vin but you are still not getting it when it comes to using torque or pressure to steer. Because the movement would be so minimul doing it that way it will be FAR TOO sensitive and you would NOT have real control of the bike. I have tried and it was hell as it was just way to sensitive, even worse than a gamepad.

Unless you like flopping from side to side that is lol

DD
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Vini

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Re: Project Realistic Rig
« Reply #20 on: February 02, 2018, 04:23:01 PM »
i don't see how the amount of movement is relevant when talking about torque transducers.

what was your setup when you did those tests? i assume you used DST mode but how did you manage to use the steering axis for both torque input and output?

doubledragoncc

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Re: Project Realistic Rig
« Reply #21 on: February 02, 2018, 04:34:31 PM »
I seriously can not be bothered to get into this further.

If you cant read the words and think about what they mean I am not going to go in circles about it.

Sorry but I wrote it easy enough to understand so many times now it is getting tedious. I am just giving advice, nothing more but I hate having to type to start with and this subject is going in circles.

DD
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speedfr

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Re: Project Realistic Rig
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2018, 06:31:52 PM »
Messieurs, please remain calm !!!

And PEACE !
It's a game....


So here are the news, i don't have the technical words but anyway, a picture is better than any words :
Next step is welding and electronics.
Then the feet part.



Here is the princip :



« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 06:36:20 PM by speedfr »
"An error may become true depending on whether the person who made it was wrong or not." P.DAC.


Missing Gp500 (Microprose)

Testing EDTracker Pro on YT

i7-4790K/16Go/GTX1070/1440p/Full WC

doubledragoncc

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Re: Project Realistic Rig
« Reply #23 on: February 14, 2018, 08:14:11 AM »
Brilliant work speedy ;D

I wish I could do such good 3D design work. Your system is going to rock.

You should do some tests with the Bodnar board to work out polling for axis on it as clutch is reversed and depending on you steering direction it may be too.

Best of luck and hope to chat soon

DD
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speedfr

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Re: Project Realistic Rig
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2018, 08:34:57 PM »
Thanks DD  ;D

About Eletronics, that will be the last phase, once all the mechanical stuff are on the good places, then i'll take care of cables and potentiometers.

Here is what it should look with your MTE Base plate.



And the actual system as far as it is :



Still waiting for the second "manomètre" for my Acetylène bootle, the one on the exit that goes from 0 to 2.5bar and regulate the gaz... It's been 1 week and a half that it still not there....
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 08:43:03 PM by speedfr »
"An error may become true depending on whether the person who made it was wrong or not." P.DAC.


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Testing EDTracker Pro on YT

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speedfr

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Re: Project Realistic Rig
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2018, 08:02:33 PM »
Hello everybody !

I have to check some things with my parents, because i think i'm Chinese !! It's Christmas !!!

(handlebar is 640mm wide - streetbike one). And i have the plate to support the main axis. And the manometers finally, so this week end is welding time !!

See you soon and a little later on the track i hope one day !  ;D

"An error may become true depending on whether the person who made it was wrong or not." P.DAC.


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Testing EDTracker Pro on YT

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doubledragoncc

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Re: Project Realistic Rig
« Reply #26 on: February 16, 2018, 09:54:13 PM »
Hi Speedy

I think you may find the bars will be a problem with the risers and lining up to the MTE correctly. That is why I said to use the drag bars.

Chat soon and have fun

DD
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speedfr

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Re: Project Realistic Rig
« Reply #27 on: February 16, 2018, 10:31:59 PM »
Hello DD  ;)

What is the "drag bar" ? i don't get it.

But yes, the cables are going to be short and not align but i don't think that will be an issue.

here first mount. This one cost nothing and was fine to give a try.
I've seen another one, 750mm (so i'll have to cut it a bit) for 11€ and it's "flat". Maybe i'll try that.
And anyway, nothing's lost, it goes perfectly on the pitbike Scud 200 that my sons plays with.  ;D
We'll see.



Or... i could do as a earlier study about it (i don't know if you remenber) and make another Base Plate and put the MTE in front ... and still use the black ones you sent me :o


« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 10:49:06 PM by speedfr »
"An error may become true depending on whether the person who made it was wrong or not." P.DAC.


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Testing EDTracker Pro on YT

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doubledragoncc

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Re: Project Realistic Rig
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2018, 07:16:04 AM »
These are the ones I use and cut them down to 650mm



Is standard "Dragbars" 22mm

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301071174251

DD
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speedfr

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Re: Project Realistic Rig
« Reply #29 on: February 17, 2018, 01:10:12 PM »
Ok, it's the other one i've seen that was in the store.

I'll go for that on tuesday.

Thank you DD. 
"An error may become true depending on whether the person who made it was wrong or not." P.DAC.


Missing Gp500 (Microprose)

Testing EDTracker Pro on YT

i7-4790K/16Go/GTX1070/1440p/Full WC