Author Topic: Penalty System: Contact Between Riders  (Read 863 times)

doubledragoncc

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Re: Penalty System: Contact Between Riders
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2018, 01:32:17 AM »
Yes I do know there are some IRL but not to such a degree as it would be in GPB

Also my big consern is that due to online lag if a rider has poor ping it could be due to the bikes hopping about at some point and not rider error. It just seems to be making it more and more complicated to hold events and less fun for the non hardcore riders. If it is done it should be so it can be turned on and off.

DD
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Hawk

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Re: Penalty System: Contact Between Riders
« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2018, 09:00:33 AM »
Yes I do know there are some IRL but not to such a degree as it would be in GPB

Also my big consern is that due to online lag if a rider has poor ping it could be due to the bikes hopping about at some point and not rider error. It just seems to be making it more and more complicated to hold events and less fun for the non hardcore riders. If it is done it should be so it can be turned on and off.

DD

+1
Totally agree that this sort of addition, if it ever happens, should be done via an optional setting that can be turned on and off depending on the event organisers preferences.

guigui404

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Re: Penalty System: Contact Between Riders
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2018, 10:18:36 AM »
Could be just implemented by ourself in championship , at the end we ask for replay and we watch , so we can manually do this


whole point is to take the manual part away...

How to take the manual part away as it needs some "free-will" to judge a contact

Wimp #97

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Re: Penalty System: Contact Between Riders
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2018, 01:32:44 PM »
To design a contact system may sound bad in the first place when both riders will be sanctioned. But in my opinion it is not. You have to look at the average side of things. A rider that rides risky will have a very bad rating, whereas a rider that rides safe, might be taken out by the risky rider but overall he will have less penalties than the risky rider.

I think it would be good to keep overall rating of every player and not just per race. So there is an overview of how good/safe people ride.
The penalty in the race itself is also a decent idea but to implement that first the connection lag has to be better. I would say to not give penalty points for contact but just for crashes. This causes everyone ride a bit more carefull and close racing is still possible.

But I think the implementation of an automated system for this is difficult and shouldn't be too high on the priority list.

A more reasonable goal is to improve connection lag and just have a proffesional championship setup, where the full replay can be reviewed and people will be penalised for reckless driving.

Right now the moto2 championship is very amateuristic, but it is ofcourse one of the first full championships in recent days.

Better connection + better organisation and keeping track of everything (replays, cuts, takeouts, ...) with manual penalisation should be more than good enough to make these championships more enjoyable.

« Last Edit: March 17, 2018, 01:34:41 PM by Wimp #97 »
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Olaf Lehmann

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Re: Penalty System: Contact Between Riders
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2018, 10:15:27 AM »
It's an interesting discussion and an interesting idea - the penalty system.
I think to make the penalty System dependent from the guilt of driver is hard for human race comissionars. For an automatic system it's so complex that I would say it's near by unpossible.
Quote
imo, the rider attempting to overtake (so coming from behind) should be penalized.
I think the "badest crimes" are to drive after a crash back to the idealline irrespective of the traffic. In this case the guilty driver isn't on the back.

I think practically an penalty system can only work for all involved drivers. For a longer term I think the advantages are greater than the disadvantages (injustices).


But what doesn't please me is: During racing you don't know at which place you are in reality. This should be only in exceptional cases.
So I would repeat my proposals:
Quote
1. The big crash like in SKB2000/2001: After a crash the driver stand up, runs to the bike with lets say 2 metres/second, picks up the bike. Not before then he can drive on.
2. In case of harder crashes the bike get a problem that the bike makes slower (lets say between 0.5 and 1 sec per lap), In case of the next hard crash another 0.5-1 second.

The advantage is: The "penalty" is fast-acting, no armchair decisions.

BR Olaf
 
« Last Edit: March 18, 2018, 10:18:14 AM by Olaf Lehmann »

Vini

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Re: Penalty System: Contact Between Riders
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2018, 06:27:40 PM »
It's an interesting discussion and an interesting idea - the penalty system.
I think to make the penalty System dependent from the guilt of driver is hard for human race comissionars. For an automatic system it's so complex that I would say it's near by unpossible.
Quote
imo, the rider attempting to overtake (so coming from behind) should be penalized.
I think the "badest crimes" are to drive after a crash back to the idealline irrespective of the traffic. In this case the guilty driver isn't on the back.
You could simply include a speed delta condition for those cases.

Olaf Lehmann

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Re: Penalty System: Contact Between Riders
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2018, 08:28:59 PM »
Quote
You could simply include a speed delta condition for those cases.
In case anyone misses the braking point totally there will be also a big speed Ddelta.

It's simply until the moment you really have to programme this.

BR Olaf

Vini

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Re: Penalty System: Contact Between Riders
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2018, 09:48:24 AM »
Quote
You could simply include a speed delta condition for those cases.
In case anyone misses the braking point totally there will be also a big speed Ddelta.

It's simply until the moment you really have to programme this.

BR Olaf
And how often does that happen in races? If you're close to the rider in front, you will see when to brake, so you have to come from way back and then in order to still hit the one in front you basically have to stay on full throttle until the apex.
Of course you will always be able to find some special cases that would not be covered by the system but a realistic, simple compromise is definitely possible IMO.

JohnnoNinja

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Re: Penalty System: Contact Between Riders
« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2018, 11:10:57 AM »
It does happen Vini. If you follow a rider closely, in general you have to brake a bit earlier I would say. Because you've to take in to account reaction time, speed difference, distance and perhaps netcode/connection as well. I do think the rider who is overtaking has the responsibility to make a clean pass, but it's not black or white and that makes it difficult to write a piece of code for a penalty system. It's often unfair and that's what I hated about the penalty system in iRacing (was a few years ago, not sure if this system has been improved in the mean time). In my opinion the best system would be to work with a few unbiased stewards who will review the races... That's on another level and not realistic to expect for now imo. To be clear, I won't say an automated penalty system wouldn't work, but it isn't the best and the time needed to create this, should be used for better netcode imo... In the mean time let's use common sense and try to ride as clean as we can...  ;)

Vini

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Re: Penalty System: Contact Between Riders
« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2018, 11:19:42 AM »
I don't think you understood what we were talking about specifically, Johnno.
A speed delta large enough to make the proposed system penalize the rider in front (because it thinks he rejoined the track without looking) would not be reached when racing close together under normal circumstances.

JohnnoNinja

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Re: Penalty System: Contact Between Riders
« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2018, 10:32:34 AM »
Thnx for clarifying Vini! In my opinion you could have a large speed delta when someone brakes too late, but you're talking about even bigger speed delta's, haha ;)

poumpouny

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Re: Penalty System: Contact Between Riders
« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2018, 12:11:43 PM »
Common sens is possible now gpbikes is in beta state and where only 10/20 people race per day, but when you reach the assetto corsa number of online driver, the ratio of stupid/clean rider would make an automated penalty system a crucial need.

Almoste every racing simulation nowaday use such a system for online race, so i don't see why Gpbikes couldn' have one, of course it will never reach the human ability to judge wich one was guillty but that's exactly the point of a racing simulation :

Having the fun of real life racing without having to pay the real coast (tyre, car, track fee, race and the race commisionary ...)