• Welcome to PiBoSo Official Forum. Please login or sign up.
 

FIM MotoGP/Moto2/Moto3 2018

Started by speedfr, March 16, 2018, 08:10:36 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

HornetMaX

Quote from: Stout Johnson on September 17, 2018, 08:17:59 AM
Quote from: HornetMaX on September 16, 2018, 04:26:17 PM
Mr Freddie on the (non)shake: https://youtu.be/ShNz_Q2eBvg?t=342
Ok, there is one opinion. Is Freddie Spencer the undisputed expert on handshaking or refusing handshakes, that his opinion should enlighten anyone?
Don't know if hes the undisputed expert on the subject, but I do think that his opinion is worth more than mine, yours ans Hawk's combined.
Still, it's just *one* opinion. Why shouldn't it be posted here ?

Stout Johnson

Quote from: HornetMaX on September 17, 2018, 09:25:04 AM
Don't know if hes the undisputed expert on the subject, but I do think that his opinion is worth more than mine, yours ans Hawk's combined.
Still, it's just *one* opinion. Why shouldn't it be posted here ?
If this subject was on riding a bike, racing or something else Mr. Spencer excels, I would agree. But he gave his opinion on whether Rossi should have accepted Marc's handshake offer. On that matter, Mr. Spencer is just like anyone else. He also did not provide any useful behind-the-scenes-information a former champion might have to substantiate his opinion. So (to me) his opinion is nothing more than an opinion and not expert knowledge. Unless of course Mr. Spencer does have expert knowledge on handshake etiquette which I should happen to be unaware of.
    -----------   WarStout Kawasaki Team   -----------

HornetMaX

Funny you find it necessary to point out he's not an expert on the matter: he didn't claim he is, I didn't say he is.
He provided his opinion like I provided mine, you provided yours and other provided theirs. Where's the problem ?!

I'd personally be happy to hear the opinion of any rider as, humbly maybe, I would value them more then my own.

guigui404

Max , you seems very clever , why do you lost your time trying to explain all opinions are equals to these guys ?

Actually about this , don't think there are Handshake experts , maybe I'm wrong. We could just all have our own opinion about it , own explaination

Stout Johnson

Quote from: guigui404 on September 17, 2018, 10:25:24 PM
Actually about this , don't think there are Handshake experts , maybe I'm wrong. We could just all have our own opinion about it , own explaination
Exactly.

Quote from: HornetMaX on September 17, 2018, 12:20:47 PM
He provided his opinion like I provided mine, you provided yours and other provided theirs. Where's the problem ?!

I'd personally be happy to hear the opinion of any rider as, humbly maybe, I would value them more then my own.
That is exactly what I am saying. Everybody has his opinion and is equal. So I do not know see why you value Mr. Spencer's opinion higher. He is a former rider who is commenting on handshake etiquette. If MM and Rossi were famous pianists who would happen to have beef with one another and another former pianist would give his opinion on who should shake whose hand, you would automatically follow his opinion? I do not see why.

In the end a dispute is a personal matter and I do not see why a person of the same profession would have better suggestions on who should shake whose hand. If you think otherwise, fine. I just don't. For me I value other opinion's higher than mine, if the person in question has some sort of expertise which excels mine on the subject in question. But if we are on the same level on that subject and I assume we all are pretty equal in terms of settling differences, then all opinions are equal imho.
    -----------   WarStout Kawasaki Team   -----------

HornetMaX

Quote from: Stout Johnson on September 18, 2018, 07:00:53 AM
That is exactly what I am saying. Everybody has his opinion and is equal. So I do not know see why you value Mr. Spencer's opinion higher.
Personal choice, nobody is obliged to agree. And, again, I'd value any rider's opinion higher than any fan's one (including mine).

What do you want me to do ? Should I remove the post with Freddie Spencer's opinion ?
If tomorrow I stumble on, let's say, Doohan's opinion or Stoner's opinion, can I post it here ?

Quote from: guigui404 on September 17, 2018, 10:25:24 PM
Max , you seems very clever , why do you lost your time trying to explain all opinions are equals to these guys ?
I think Stout is clever and he's a nice guy to discuss with, but as often when discussing VR people just get a bit too passionate.
The Uccio syndrome :)

guigui404


Stout Johnson

September 18, 2018, 08:42:54 AM #352 Last Edit: September 18, 2018, 08:44:41 AM by Stout Johnson
Max, I think I have made myself pretty clear. But for you, I will elaborate and hope you understand. If not, I will let it go.

You can post whatever you want. I just don't see any point in posting anyone's opinion. Instead of Mr. Spencer's opinion, you could as well have quoted your's, Hawk's, mine, or anyone's opinion. It is just one opinion and to me and there is no surplus value. If you would have posted an analysis of a psychological expert on e.g. analyzing body language, I would see the surplus value because he would have surplus information which a regular person would not have.

I just cannot fathom when people try to back their opinion by citing celebrities. So just because he is famous I should follow? It is the same psychological effect why advertisements with celebrities work. Or e.g. famous researchers will often get more credit for their work than an unknown researchers, even if their work is similar ("Matthew effect").

For me everything should be based on facts, not names. I just wanted to make that clear. And that is why I wanted to point out that your reference to Mr. Spencer's opinion does bear 0 value.


And finally but very annoying: I do not know why I am labelled a "VR people"? I am very indifferent about the riders.  I love the sport, but not riders. Maybe I do have slight preferences towards Crutchlow and Dovi based on their characteral features but overall I just want to see exciting races and fair sportsmanship. I am critical of certain behaviour. And in the past, I have been very critical of Rossi's behaviour whenever I found him to be in the wrong (e.g. Sepang Clash) but also Marquez' behaviour whenever I found him to be wrong. So for you to jump to conclusions just because it fits your argumentation is something I would like you to refrain from.

Out of pure interest: would you label yourself a Marquez people?
    -----------   WarStout Kawasaki Team   -----------

Hawk

Quote from: guigui404 on September 18, 2018, 08:33:27 AM
Quote from: HornetMaX on September 18, 2018, 08:00:25 AM
The Uccio syndrome :)

Thought it was the Hawk one  ;D

Haha! Haven't a clue what your talking about, but I think I get the drift of it's meaning. :P ;D

Actually, although a have great respect for Rossi for having participated in both 2 stroke and 4 stroke era's, I actually don't have any favourite rider from the modern era..... You can't say any of them are able to show their true "seat-of-the-pants" talents and abilities because of the ride by wire technology in the modern era.....  :P

However, I do recognise an arse-hole when I see one, namely MM, and someone who if they were riding without any ride by wire tech on their bikes would either be dead through his own stupidity or way down the field because of his inability to be consistent in performance without ride by wire tech on his bike. MM is a pure creation of what modern ride by wire tech on bikes allows to happen rather than true rider talent, which on the other hand Rossi has in bucket loads and has rock-solid proof to back it up, unlike MM who probably has never even rode a bike without electronic stabilizers on! Lol! :P ;D

But yeah, the big difference between the 2 stroke era and todays fake 4 stroke era is that there were true hero's and talents on display back then.... Today it's all fake and mockery resulting in no true hero worship at all but for the younger fans of MotoGP who have never known anything different and are therefore ignorant to the truth of the real situation. But that thinking just comes from being old enough to have experience of both era's and actually seeing the skills that have been taken out of rider control now compared to when race bikes were true rider and machine marriages that needed true rider talents to win races. :P ;) 8)

uberslug

Anyone up for some real fishing? Trolling is so unfair to the innocent inedible creatures being needlessly slaughtered by nets.

HornetMaX

Quote from: Stout Johnson on September 18, 2018, 08:42:54 AM
You can post whatever you want. I just don't see any point in posting anyone's opinion.
Well, it's a forum and many of us posted their own opinion (including, well, you). Bit of the purpose of the forum itself.

Quote from: Stout Johnson on September 18, 2018, 08:42:54 AM
Instead of Mr. Spencer's opinion, you could as well have quoted your's, Hawk's, mine, or anyone's opinion.
Except this would have been pointless because these were already on the forum (Spencer's one was not).

Quote from: Stout Johnson on September 18, 2018, 08:42:54 AM
For me everything should be based on facts, not names. I just wanted to make that clear. And that is why I wanted to point out that your reference to Mr. Spencer's opinion does bear 0 value.
OK. If that's the case, what;s the value of the opinion of MCF, Hawk, guigui, me and you ?
If they are all zero, then what's your point ?! Nobody should have posted anything ?

Quote from: Stout Johnson on September 18, 2018, 08:42:54 AM
And finally but very annoying: I do not know why I am labelled a "VR people"?
Because in a discussion "A vs B" you seemed to take A's side (which is fair) essentially saying that people on B's side are wrong because their opinion is irrelevant.
I do agree I could have used a more precise formulation than "VR people", sorry for the shortcut. At the same time, this is a video-game forum, not the High Court for Human Rights so, yeah ...

Quote from: Stout Johnson on September 18, 2018, 08:42:54 AM
Out of pure interest: would you label yourself a Marquez people?
I wouldn't mind if someone here would say "Max seems to be partial to MM".
I would not take it as an offence or an utter lack of respect.
If it bothers you, you can consider I was speaking about others and not you.

Stout Johnson

You are not getting my point MaX, maybe I am not expressing myself well enough. Either way, it is not worth it I guess. Read my above comments again tomorrow, maybe after a day off you will see what point I am trying to make. If not, also fine. Life is too short to be discussing too long.  ;)

Regards, Stout
    -----------   WarStout Kawasaki Team   -----------

Napalm Nick

Wait! what?

This isn't the High Court for Human Rights?

I'm at the wrong place again.

ROFL.  :P
"The post you are writing has been written at least ten times already in the last 15ish years. Its already been reported, suggested, discussed, ignored or archived (but mostly ignored). Why are you doing it again?"

HornetMaX

I've read you all good but you're right, I don't get your point.

I posted a comment for a former rider and you pointed out my action has zero value for you.
All fine, even if I don't see the point in you broadcasting that, as others may well be interested in others' opinions (especially coming from a former rider).

Final note: I didn't post Spencer's opinion because "he's on my side". I didn't post it to prove he, me or Marquez is right. If you're reading that in my action that's your problem. If I stumble on a retired moto3 rider disagreeing with Spencer, I'd still post it as well.

Quote from: Napalm Nick on September 18, 2018, 11:27:07 AM
Wait! what?

This isn't the High Court for Human Rights?
No. They are out fishing with uberslug :)

poumpouny

I don't Understand why so much discussion about handshake or not, they are not there to be friend or ennemi, they are there to race ! i think, with the talent MM had, if he take care about rider around him on a race, everybody, Rossi included, will have respect for him soon or late !