Author Topic: My personal valuation of GPBikes  (Read 2443 times)

Wimp #97

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Re: My personal valuation of GPBikes
« Reply #30 on: March 29, 2018, 11:38:58 AM »
By penalisation system I mean a system that has a team review incidents that happend during race/quali ,... and give penalties to people that deserve it.
I can agree on a scaleable/adjustable damage system although I still think it has too many negatives in a game where you have lag spikes, super slippery curbs, unclear track edges, connection lag and a lack of feedback. Too many things you have very little control of that do not exist in real life.

That is why the lap times irl would also be much faster if players could never be injured, had unlimited amount of bikes available if they crash. They would risk so much more. So your argument concerning the difference between realistic gap between Q and Race times does not apply. We would have the exact same as irl, if we could not go all out at all times in GPB.

If you really believe that without any injuries, unlimited bikes, these guys would go much faster than I think you don't grasp how skilled these guys are. They are always ON the limit, if they go over it, they feel it/ catch the bike most of the times. Its not because the bike is sliding that you crash. If there was no risk in what they were doing I doubt they would even be going 0.2 faster than with risks.

Not sure whether "fear" is the right word. But a risk-reward-relation is always part of racing. You can clearly see that real life riders often could be faster, but they don't try to push it in order to be able to finish the race. Just look at Dovizioso last year. He was a master at this. He could hold off for the 3/4 of a race, not doing more than he needed to do. Then he would do a push within the last laps to seperate himself from the pack. Real life racing is always not only about all out racing but also about risk management. And those guys we see on TV are the absolute best of the best. Many of those you see in a GPB server are just casuals at best.

I doubt Dovi was doing that because he didn't want to risk it. I think its more of a tyre conservation strategie.
If a rider is all out faster than the rest, he will try to break away and take the necessary risks with it. he wont stay back untill the end of the race to minimize the risk.
For example, do you think Rossi  in this years first race in Qatar wasn't going 100% when he saw marquez and Dovi get away?
Dovi and Marc for sure were giving it 100%, same as all other riders behind them. The only reason they stayed behind eachother at the start was because all their pace were pretty similar (max 0.5sec difference) and they knew tyres would be an issue in the end.

The only thing stopping these guys to go faster is the amount of grip there is, not the amount of risk they are willing to take. They only start limiting their risk when a championship end is in sight and they are competing for the top spots. This has more to do with securing points than actually caring for themselves.


I do agree that the average person in gpbikes rides too reckless.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2018, 11:42:25 AM by Wimp #97 »
Wimp #97

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Stout Johnson

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Re: My personal valuation of GPBikes
« Reply #31 on: March 29, 2018, 01:04:42 PM »
If you really believe that without any injuries, unlimited bikes, these guys would go much faster than I think you don't grasp how skilled these guys are. They are always ON the limit, if they go over it, they feel it/ catch the bike most of the times. Its not because the bike is sliding that you crash. If there was no risk in what they were doing I doubt they would even be going 0.2 faster than with risks.
I don't think they would be going much faster in one lap over the course of many laps. You are right, I would say they'd be only marginally faster for their best lap time if the number of laps is large enough. What I meant was, irl you have a tendency to approach the limit 'from the bottom', by getting progressively faster. Each lap you push a bit more, because falling has consequences. In GPB people have a tendency to approach the limit 'from above', by going all out from the get-go, crashing a lot. Until they manage to get away with everything and finish a lap. And that sort of conditions the average GPB rider to ride recklessly, with a tendency to push over the limit. I think that is one reason why people crash so often in races.

The only thing stopping these guys to go faster is the amount of grip there is, not the amount of risk they are willing to take.
I don't want to argue over this, because it is not that relevant for the inital topic. But in a race you cannot go at 100% risk, otherwise you won't finish. Humans are not robots, we all have a margin of error. And if you aim at going 100%, you might be able to do that for 5 laps, but you are going to hit 100.1% sooner or later and you are out of the race.  If you aim at 100% of your limit each lap, you might finish a race with 1% chance. If you aim at 99% of your limit each lap, you might finish a race with 50% chance. If you aim at at 98% of your limit each lap, you might finish a race with 80% chance etc. etc. If you aim at at 90% of your limit each lap, you might finish a race with 99% chance. And those percentages differ for each rider, based on their talent. It is always a risk-reward ratio. Nobody can consistently go at the limit and expect to finish a race. Great riders are fast AND have a smaller margin of error, so they can go fast more consistently.

I remember a Ayrton Senna quote. I cannot find it by googling, but from the top of my head it was to the effect that one can approach 100% risk during Qualifying and during some laps in a race. But over a whole race distance one has to resort to 95% of one's own maximum, otherwise one will crash out. A friend of mine had that quote printed on his wall and I thought that makes a lot sense.

Btw, why do you think Rossi has a tendency to have far better race results than qualifying? My take is that Rossi has a tendency to take 1% less risk in qualifying because he knows it is not worth it. Taking that 1% more could cost him the season (and he has only 2-3 seasons left) while all he can gain is 3-5 spots in the starting grid. And in the race he has the ability to race very consistent at a high level out-performing riders that are not faster than him, but were willing to take higher risks in qualifying. According to your logic (every rider always is at 100%), there would be no difference in race and qualifying pace between riders...
« Last Edit: March 29, 2018, 02:30:19 PM by Stout Johnson »
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janaucarre

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Re: My personal valuation of GPBikes
« Reply #32 on: March 29, 2018, 06:14:19 PM »
First thing to do to be fairplay online:
SAY HELLO, HI, HOLA, CIAO, SALUT, KONICHIUA(sry for spelling).
It's easy and very simple for every people who can use a keyboard.
Thank you

speedfr

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Re: My personal valuation of GPBikes
« Reply #33 on: March 29, 2018, 08:15:45 PM »
and guys, why not trying to give a better taste to that feature and do an increase system.

I mean, first crash, like 10 seconds off, the bike reappear on the SIDE (not on the track) and go.
If the guys is good, better than the others (as Pirro in the video) he can still win if he is fast but take care of his riding.

Second crash : out. Or 20 sc. then out at third crash. Something in this idea kind of.  ;D

I would say that before going to race with others (once my rig is finished) i would wait until i know i'm capable. That's the first statment, until then, i'll practice with other riders or alone but at least, get to a good average level before going racing. i'll be ashame otherwise... :'(

Look what happened to Cluzel on the last SPP race, he just lost the front, the bike slided on the left, not a big crash but the demi-handlebar was broken, he is out... I think damaging compare to the type of crash is too complex to program but saying that over a certain limit, let's say 150km/h the bike is ruined, the player is out right away, under that speed he has 10 sec then....

That remains simple to implement no ? And sure enough, as a server side option that will be specified before.

I'm like some of you in here, trying to be as perfect as possible on the track, doing my best to lick every corner as if i was drawing it, and mostly under 90%  than over, and my best wish is a endurance race (3 pilots - 24h) as we did lonnnnnnnnnnng time ago with GP500.  ;)


« Last Edit: March 29, 2018, 08:23:24 PM by speedfr »
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Warlock

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Re: My personal valuation of GPBikes
« Reply #34 on: March 30, 2018, 01:15:59 AM »
First thing to do to be fairplay online:
SAY HELLO, HI, HOLA, CIAO, SALUT, KONICHIUA(sry for spelling).
It's easy and very simple for every people who can use a keyboard.
Thank you

Yes Janau, thats the first step indeed.
Second step is to finish the race.
Third is to finish the championship.


I haven't seen yet, in ...don't know ..8 years? , a race that finish with the same number of riders that were in the grid at start.
Not to mention the euphoria the first race of a championship with, lets say 14 riders, and finish the championship with 3 riders.

Discusing a method of penalyzing a rider for crashing into others is a bit useless. Most of those riders crash into you at first corner, makes you lose 20 secs, and they disconnect in lap 3 because they aren't winning the race.
Do you really think punishing a rider with 10 or 20 secs will make any difference?

Is all a matter of respect, respect is something that we can't teach in a forum. Respect is something you learn during your life, and something your parents teach you.
Respect is finishing a race even if you are the last one of the pack 40 secs behind. Respect is finishing a championship you signed in, so organizers doesn't feel like idiots doing a hard work for others to have fun.

So we only need mature riders, not a punishing system. Shit happenz and even mature and respectful riders crash into others, but in those cases the first thing you see in the screen is :  I'm sorry ! , and in many cases the culprit of the crash waits for the 'victim' to recover and let them pass. This is not necesary but shows others what respect means.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2018, 01:18:11 AM by Warlock »

Napalm Nick

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Re: My personal valuation of GPBikes
« Reply #35 on: March 30, 2018, 08:19:29 AM »
Well said. Such a shame it needs saying.
Motorcycles have BRAKES
Glass BREAKS
Engine BRAKING is a thing
Sometimes engines BREAK
If the BRAKES BREAK you may BREAK
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Hawk

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Re: My personal valuation of GPBikes
« Reply #36 on: March 30, 2018, 09:42:35 AM »
+1 Warlock!  ;)

HornetMaX

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Re: My personal valuation of GPBikes
« Reply #37 on: March 30, 2018, 11:27:40 AM »
Respect is something you learn during your life, and something your parents teach you.
I'm sure there's a missing "should" in the last part of your sentence :)

Warlock

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Re: My personal valuation of GPBikes
« Reply #38 on: March 30, 2018, 02:54:14 PM »
True Max, that must be a big part of the problem

HornetMaX

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Re: My personal valuation of GPBikes
« Reply #39 on: March 30, 2018, 03:08:37 PM »
True Max, that must be a big part of the problem
I've recently been to some "comptetitive" judo tournament for kids aged 8-14: the number of parents (fathers *and* mothers) I would have immediately terminated is just amazing.
No way these people could transmit any sort of respect to a kid. So the kid will grow up and become an asshole. Not his fault. But the problem is that he will have kids too one day ... :)

Warlock

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Re: My personal valuation of GPBikes
« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2018, 03:46:04 AM »
Yeah man, nice future to expect  ;D

Stout Johnson

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Re: My personal valuation of GPBikes
« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2018, 06:38:16 AM »
I've recently been to some "comptetitive" judo tournament for kids aged 8-14: the number of parents (fathers *and* mothers) I would have immediately terminated is just amazing.
No way these people could transmit any sort of respect to a kid. So the kid will grow up and become an asshole. Not his fault. But the problem is that he will have kids too one day ... :)
I see that too. And I am under the impression that those parents which are assholes seem to have a higher reproduction rates. So this asshole behaviour seems to become the norm.
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KG_03

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Re: My personal valuation of GPBikes
« Reply #42 on: April 01, 2018, 08:51:15 AM »
I finally made it through whole discussion. The end was worth reading all those posts, and I agree. Seeing how some people ride and can't say simple sorry or hello is growing.
Anyway as we speak about penalty system I have posted it before so I won't repeat myself. Anyway as we speak about realism I do not understan that we mention this and still play using chase cam. I know there are some fast players who ride onboard and some chase cam players who can be fast in onboard too but one of the reasons I often collide with other players is that I almost never see them until someone shows his front wheel. Also I had some cases that someone was overthaking me the opponent bike almost took me over but I just noticed it in the moment of contact and it was just a few simple polygons.

So in this matter I agree with Wimp that until we get sorted some problems like: physics, players behaviour and multiplayer bugs the damage system should not be implemented or very very simplified to lets say very high G values.

Olaf Lehmann

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Re: My personal valuation of GPBikes
« Reply #43 on: April 01, 2018, 09:33:49 AM »
Why racing fascinates me? What is the thrill of racing for me?
The ambivalence: You have to be fast, but if you overdo it you get a big advantage. Because of that a race is not only a hotlapping competition.
The races we have at the moment are too much determinated by red. Green is too mild.  ;)
Why I already come with my proposals now?
My experiance with other racing simuations/games are: People grow accustomed easy at such things. The longer people have this unrealistic "advantage" the difficulter is it to cut from it.

Quote
First thing to do to be fairplay online:
SAY HELLO, HI, HOLA, CIAO, SALUT, KONICHIUA(sry for spelling).
It's easy and very simple for every people who can use a keyboard.
Thank you
I must say sometimes I don't say Hello. As I said at other place(s) I'm very destrictable. If I read a chat message I'm crashing with high confidence in the next corner.
I thought: Maybe other riders are equal to me. So sometimes I say hello, sometimes not. I'm ambivalent. At least it's not disrespect.

But otherwise I'm gape how other drivers can look around and gesture in difficult situations. Maybe I learn this some day, but at the moment I have to learn more important things.

To quit in an official race I find absolutely unsportic, but in example last week in the 20CET race 13 from 14 riders see the quecked flag. It's an high finishing rate.

BR Olaf
« Last Edit: April 01, 2018, 09:50:46 AM by Olaf Lehmann »

Warlock

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Re: My personal valuation of GPBikes
« Reply #44 on: April 01, 2018, 03:41:39 PM »
.... Because of that a race is not only a hotlapping competition...
My experiance with other racing simuations/games are: People grow accustomed easy at such things. The longer people have this unrealistic "advantage" the difficulter is it to cut from it.

True


I must say sometimes I don't say Hello. As I said at other place(s) I'm very destrictable. ......
I thought: Maybe other riders are equal to me. So sometimes I say hello, sometimes not. I'm ambivalent. At least it's not disrespect.

Thats totally understandable and riders know this.  You can reply when you get back to pit whithout being disrespectful.


If I read a chat message I'm crashing with high confidence in the next corner.
hahaha yes  ;D , also trying to reply while on track lol.
GPB has chat reply custom messages mapped to keyboard keys, so its a matter of a keyboard click if you want.


To quit in an official race I find absolutely unsportic

Thats the point


Anyway as we speak about realism I do not understan that we mention this and still play using chase cam.

I neither understand it


I know there are some fast players who ride onboard and some chase cam players who can be fast in onboard too but one of the reasons I often collide with other players is that I almost never see them until someone shows his front wheel. Also I had some cases that someone was overthaking me the opponent bike almost took me over but I just noticed it in the moment of contact and it was just a few simple polygons. 

I learnt this by ear. Using headphones you get used to how close of far , left or right, the other rider is due the sound of it.
To get used to it, look back when you can , not risking to crash, and roughly check the distance he is for the volume you hear.
I remember to think 'omg he is right behind me!' and when i looked back he was at 10 or 15 m.
When you hear that sound even closer and start moving to one side of your headphones, you know he is trying to show his front wheel. A split of a second look back will ensure if this is the case, and slowly will grow in you a natural situational awareness without even need to look back.

Other thing is , if the opponent is there ,.... is there,.. trying to close him not to let him pass will most times cause a crash.