Author Topic: Here's why third person is actually more realistic than first person view  (Read 351 times)

IronHorse

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For the people who say "real life is in first person, so the game should be too"

The biggest difference i find between both modes is the field of view. In real life, we see up to 114 degrees horizontally (some more some less) which is a lot around us. When you are in first person mode on GP bikes or most other games you have much less field of view than you than you would in real life, and what you also dont have is the physical awareness of your body on the bike. So you are essentially just looking down a telescope with the only awareness of your vehicle being a small dash moving around half the screen - Have you noticed that it is harder to play in first person than third person?

I believe 3rd person is easier and far more realistic because not only the wider field of view giving a more realistic perception of speed and surrounds, but the fact that you can SEE the riders body position and bike movement REPLACES the physical feel and awareness of the grip, the bike, and your body that you would have in real life.

What are your opinions of this?

poumpouny

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Triple screen ? head tracking ? VR ?  :P

connorhall70

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The biggest difference i find between both modes is the field of view. In real life, we see up to 114 degrees horizontally

Fov sliders exist btw, so do bigger screens, and VR headsets, and this is the case for EVERY GAME.
3rd person is not more realistic than 1st at all. 1st feels faster and also has many settings to adjust it so you yourself can use it no problem. and also why would anyone want to see 114 degrees horizontally on a FLAT SCREEN? it would become so distorted on the sides where its trying to replicate peripheral vision.

nobody says it should be first person only, but show me a professional sim racer who doesnt use first person?
if you want a simulation why use third person? you dont sit miles away from a bike in real life so if you were to simulate the experience you would use a cockpit view, because thats closer to reality than floating behind the bike.

im not the fastest guy here, but i ALWAYS use first person, even if the entire server of 20 people is using third. there is no advantage to either, it just depends what you are comfortable with.

It isnt harder to play in first person at all. i feel like i can predict the bike easier in first, i can see the forks moving, and i can feel the rear dipping away every time it slides, ( i use the other cockpit view mode you have to change in config file so maybe thats why)


and just to top it off,,, have you ever been round a corner that goes down or up hill? third person is totally fucked when it comes to that. Doesnt happen in fp.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 12:19:29 AM by connorhall70 »
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davidboda46

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I would say that realism is not the correct word to use. I would say the difference between 1st and 3rd person view is immersion. It is impossible to replicate real life in a sim, because (as you also point out), we are not physically connected to the bike and we can't feel what's happening. But, the illusion of "real" is bigger in 1st person because it looks similar to what we are used to from real life. And I personally use edtracker (and as previous post mentioned, there are other methods as well) so I can look into the corners. Sure, you use your peripheral vision in real life but in track riding I think you are pretty much focused on where the next braking point/apex/corner exit point is so field of vision becomes less of an issue. Street riding is a different story, but that is not what GP-bikes is trying to recreate.   

So, yes it is easier to ride in 3rd person, because of the visual cues you get from the bike more than the field of view I would say, but it is less satisfying. At least for me.   

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda   
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IronHorse

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Triple screen ? head tracking ? VR ?  :P

Good point, VR would be better being able to look around but does it offer more FOV (just curious)

Fov sliders exist btw, so do bigger screens, and VR headsets, and this is the case for EVERY GAME.

I know, but i was just talking about first and third person here  ::)

and also why would anyone want to see 114 degrees horizontally on a FLAT SCREEN?

it would become so distorted on the sides where its trying to replicate peripheral vision.

I dont know, I didn't say that that would be a good idea  :o

please just shut up cos u make yourself sound like an idiot.

Ok, i will not start an interesting discussion with other respectful users about view modes in a game because some child feels personally challenged that someone has a different opinion to them  ;D

if you want a simulation why use third person? you dont sit miles away from a bike in real life so if you were to simulate the experience you would use a cockpit view, because thats closer to reality than floating behind the bike.

I just told you why i use third person


It isnt harder to play in first person at all. i feel like i can predict the bike easier in first, i can see the forks moving, and i can feel the rear dipping away every time it slides, ( i use the other cockpit view mode you have to change in config file so maybe thats why)


and just to top it off,,, have you ever been round a corner that goes down or up hill? third person is totally fucked when it comes to that. Doesnt happen in fp.

Thats interesting, thanks for saying. And i have not noticed any problem with elevating corners, not sure what you mean?


I would say that realism is not the correct word to use. I would say the difference between 1st and 3rd person view is immersion. It is impossible to replicate real life in a sim, because (as you also point out), we are not physically connected to the bike and we can't feel what's happening. But, the illusion of "real" is bigger in 1st person because it looks similar to what we are used to from real life. And I personally use edtracker (and as previous post mentioned, there are other methods as well) so I can look into the corners. Sure, you use your peripheral vision in real life but in track riding I think you are pretty much focused on where the next braking point/apex/corner exit point is so field of vision becomes less of an issue. Street riding is a different story, but that is not what GP-bikes is trying to recreate.   

So, yes it is easier to ride in 3rd person, because of the visual cues you get from the bike more than the field of view I would say, but it is less satisfying. At least for me.   

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda

Interesting input gonzo. I find that normal first person is usually too unstable (on gp bikes its OK) for me to concentrate on small things in the distance, does head tracking make that much easier for you?
« Last Edit: May 30, 2018, 01:47:20 PM by IronHorse »

janaucarre

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Connorhall70 => i asked you to stop talking bad to other people.
Piboso has a message from me and i hope he will do what its needed.

matty0l215

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I have ridden in 1st person for years now and I can't switch back. For the record, I am not the fastest rider here (many can testify that :P ) but I can still finish a race with a consistant pace and I find it much easier to stay consistant when I can see my markers and my turn points from 1st person. 3rd is to out of the way for my liking

Yes it is easier to ride in 3rd person but I am not beating my own lap times, just matching them at best (im sure if more time was spent that would change but meh, im not changing)

One of the best things i did for first person is turn on Corner anticipation in the settings It does somthing similar to what an edTracker would and does it automatically but you can't control it a (You may be able to but im not sure and have never tried)

BTW, I don't have, nor really have much interest in an edTracker at the moment. I have tried them and they really are great but it's just not for me :P


P.S. @Connor, Pipe down, Piss off or grow up and learn common decency.

doubledragoncc

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All I can say is if you can ride a bike in real life where you see it from behaind your a stunt rider on a rope behind the bike. You SIT on the bike so cant see anything from the tank backwards. Thats a fact about riding a bike not what you think. Sorry but factual.

DD
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speedfr

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@DD : its false, you can see back, just use mirror (jooooke !!)  ;D

I think the 3rd view is harder, imho, because you have to work 2 times.
You have to place the bike and anticipate the next corner. Awfull to me.
1st person is great but yes, the FOV is a pain in the a... and that's why, being one meter away, i'm gonna steal some old ladies bags in the street to buy myself a 32" screen instead of a 25". And put the FOV closer to our reality, 90.
Today, i'm on 60 and yes, you are right Iron, it sucks.

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matty0l215

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Another thing I have found with most of the bikes we have is the 1st person view is way to close to the tank/dash. It feels really alien going from the road bike where unless i look down i can bearly see the screen (well it's not in my consious vision, looking at the road ahead) to in game where sometimes it's all it can see even when untucked.

We arn't all 5ft tall guys :P

poumpouny

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The speed sensation you have in FPV is to me enough to stick to it ! and also if you're saying 1 FPV is not realistic because you have too little FOV it also apply to 3PV cause you have too large FOV almost 360 cause you can see the guy behind you without turning you head wich is imho far way less realistic than having little FOV. Anyway yes it's easier (especially if you're new to GPbikes) to use 3PV, but for me, the aim is not to make it easy, otherwise why do you think i've choosen GPbikes ?  ;D

IronHorse

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All I can say is if you can ride a bike in real life where you see it from behaind your a stunt rider on a rope behind the bike. You SIT on the bike so cant see anything from the tank backwards. Thats a fact about riding a bike not what you think. Sorry but factual.

DD

What you say is true, and maybe i should change what i said a little bit - yes first person is more realistic from a realism point of view (ok  ;D ), but i mean from a point of view where you are riding, trying to go fast, and have that full body awareness where you SEE how you are leaning and how the bike is moving, which in real life, instead of seeing it you can FEEL it (seeing on game replaces feel in real riding). But in first person i think that you GUESS it because you only see the head move around a small bit but have no feeling of the rider.

Edit: Am i making sense here because i dont understand what i just read  ::) haha

But if people disagree with me here then im inspired to try at riding first person for a while and see how it goes  ;D
« Last Edit: May 31, 2018, 08:10:35 AM by IronHorse »

neoraptor

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Hi Ironhorse,
Like many here, I started playing in 3PV, but quickly switched to FPV.
I feel the reactions of the bike better in this view, and find it easier to place the wheel where I want.
It is true that you have not the same peripheral awereness in FPV, but on a pure driving perspective, you have a better immersion.

Give it a try. It is not easy as first because you need to rebuild your marks, but it comes quickly.
Driving with Oculus is also very entertaining, because you can move your head where you want to go and you have some kind of peripheral awereness.

Ideal would be to better differentiate the sounds from your engine from the one of the others around (actually it is not that easy).
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je11yfish15

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I'm new here but it has to be 1st person, on a race track you should only be looking forward, so why do you need to see all around your bike, to be fair I haven't turned a wheel on this yet, but in every other bike game its always 1st person
if I'm racing I'm training

KG_03

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Good for you! We play in the same team 😊 dont change that 😊