What i noticed...

[Hawk]

gp bikes is very very close to reality, but there is a virtual driver that allows you to ride the bike in gpbikes, he drives with you, otherwise it would be impossible to drive in a real bike-sim using only a Xbox pad i think. If for example you had a chance to try a driver's seat with handlebar with "direct steering activated " and without automatic lean... you would see a very different behavior ...

I've actually tried GP Bikes with "Direct Steer" activated and it's like trying to ride your bike when you been on a bender! Impossible with a normal controller! Hehehe

But talking about times being too fast and it's because of the game factor: Yes, I absolutely agree with that..... This is why I've posted in the past about having, only in race events, the condition that if you fall off then your race is over. This would slow riders down to a more realistic pace for fear of falling off and ending their race prematurely.
But we could only implement this condition when all other factors are solved or it would be very frustrating at the moment because a bike can fall over for no good reason on a lot of the current generation of converted tracks, also you only have to touch another rider and your rider hops off your bike(Not good). Maybe it would be a good idea to implement this option in the server settings when these problems have been sorted? Would make for better and closer racing for sure I believe. What do you guys think?

[C21]

Murasama = RC211V 2003.
Qualifying time on Philip Island (Victoria) that year : 1'30
Best lap on GPB : 1'25
We are not to slow compared to reality, we are too fast. Electronics and engineering in general made bikes going faster and faster, but remember that Murasama simulates a 11 years old bike

Hmm....
I don´t know where you get your data from but....
Phillip Island = Victoria
2003: (Qualify Results)
1. Rossi 1.30.068  328.0 km/h
2. Capirex 1.30.496  329.9 km/h
25degrees air and 34degrees track temp.

2013: (because 2014 they only did a tyre test on Victoria yet)
1. Lorenzo 1.27.899  337.9 km/h
2. Marquez 1.28.120  342.5 km/h
25degrees air and 38degrees track temp.

Times are driven at nearly the same temperatures but we don´t know the wind intensity and direction.
I agree with you that the bikes in GPB are to fast looking at the lap times!

I´ve noticed that when developing physics for the WSBK.
I look at the lap times in real life for the specific class and year and environment data! I set the temperature to the same level it was in real life where i get the lap time data from.
Then i develop the physics try to getting near the lap times in real life.
My WSBK Honda only reaches 303km/h on the straight of Victoria compared to 320 km/h ridden in real life 2012 on that circuit but i´m 8tenth faster in the lap time and that was not a perfect lap!
And i´m not the fastest one out there, i think that someone is able to do 29´or even faster laps.
The big question is: What makes the difference? Wind intesity and direction? Stronger engine power? Better tyres? Track not correctly build? Bike physics?
Are we really able to determine the root cause?

[BTT]
The lean angle seems to be correct in my point of view...
I agree with Jamoz that something is not correct but i did not know what it is..i was thinking about the tyres....
We should take in mind that it´s still a game we´re talking about , an absolutly fascinating SIM but imho we will never get it 100% real.
The reactions of the bikes are good but for my taste they wheel to much! I´ve never experinced in real life that the front comes up that fast as in GPB! Accelerating from 0 at WOT and you can flip the bike instantly on such bikes is far from real. Speaking about bikes below 1000cc 
ODI pointed it out: the "problem" is the virtual rider. The bike flips to much at low speed and is to stable at high speed corner/weight changes.

[dude]

I agree with the point that the bikes are wheeling to quick.

[Vini]

At least the 500s don't wheelie too quick.
Even my RGV 250 still comes up in 2nd if you're not careful. The 500s have three times the amount of power and weigh 20 kg less.

Judging from my RGV 250 I can also say, that the 500s are too hard to flick. When you watch the Qatar race, even the MotoGP bikes flick faster.

[HornetMaX]

One thing you can try if you feel the bike does not flick left/right fast enough is to use "direct lean": I've always felt that with "direct lean" off (which is the default and what most of you are using) the bike is way too slow to flick. I have direct lean ON and I'm really not planning to change it, even if it makes me slower.

For the rest I do agree with whoever said it above: can't compare a 2014 bike with a 2003 bike. Huge progress in chassis, electronics, tires ...

As far as I understand it, the virtual rider computes the max lean angle from the physics data. For a current motogp bike (e.g. the rcv 211) you may want to have a bit more of grip on the tires compared to the murasama's tires: that should allow a bigger max lean angle.

MaX.

[Desteban]

I don't think the bikes are too fast, our tyres just have too much grip! The qualys have so much grip it's insane! So no wonder about that awesome time on GPB.
And not sure about 2003 but our Victoria is very smooth, I doubt the 2003 Philip Island tarmac was that smooth back then.

Another point is the Vic we have is not a laser scanned track, so the layout isn't 100% identical, which can make some difference.
Especially when pushing at the limits, a few centimeter can mean a lot there!

Regarding the lean angle I get up to 61° according to Max Hud so I think thats pretty accurate for a 2003 bike, don't know for sure though.

[C21]

our tyres just have too much grip! The qualys have so much grip it's insane! So no wonder about that awesome time on GPB.

Agree on that and additionally the sliding ability is way too small....itßs like one of the Michelin Slicks from 2004.....grip..grip...grip..no grip! Sometimes they loose grip that fast i did not have any clue why...

Another point is the Vic we have is not a laser scanned track, so the layout isn't 100% identical, which can make some difference.

+1
the Victoria track is one of the best for GPB but still has some incorrectness on some parts of the track.

Regarding the lean angle I get up to 61° according to Max Hud so I think thats pretty accurate for a 2003 bike, don't know for sure though.

That´s what i´m saying. Compared to the real tyres the lean angle is correct. MotoGP 2013/14 leans up to 62 degrees....ten years ago the tyres were a bit less grippy. Lean angles up to 60 degrees...

[_oDi_]

physics is already perfect (i love beta4!), but if we think about how to improve, I agree with those who say that there is slightly too much grip at maximum lean ..
maybe I'm too hardcore ...but I'd like to put more 'emphasis' on the skills of the driver... 

[Abigor]

Yes.....don't get me wrong i love this game but there's something wrong.....just take WSS and SBK lap time in Aragon __ in real live WSS 2.01---2.02 race pace......SBK 1.57--1.58 race pace. Go now and do some laps with WSS bike on Aragon ( medium tires ) and see lap times in GP BIKES. "We are to fast in corners speed"

[ALEale]

aragon is not the same on the SBK/WSS real Champ

[C21]

@ALEale
you mean Aragon is not the same compared to MotoGP/moto2/3 
WSS and WSBK uses a different track layout than the MGP ones....

MGP use the FIM layout, track length 5078m.
WSS/WSBK use the FIA layout , track length 5344m

There is no difference between WSS and WSBK, both rides on the same track 

[Abigor]

aragon is not the same on the SBK/WSS real Champ

Yes .......you are absolutely right. I was wrong...sorry.  ( I was trying now the other track layout and it's so much better )

[ALEale]

@ALEale
you mean Aragon is not the same compared to MotoGP/moto2/3 
WSS and WSBK uses a different track layout than the MGP ones....

MGP use the FIM layout, track length 5078m.
WSS/WSBK use the FIA layout , track length 5344m

There is no difference between WSS and WSBK, both rides on the same track 

sorry my itenglish is bad LOL

i meant that WSS and SBK don't race in the same layout we use on gpbikes

[Vini]

After playing with the 990 again, I have to say that you are right, the lean angles are correct and in my opinion the bikes don't wheelie too quick.
The top speed could be a little higher (at least on new bikes like the GP12).
Still, I think that the 500 is too hard to flick.
You are right with the tyres, if you watch any motorcycle race, they are sliding the rear tyre out of every corner, in GPB it's impossible to do.

[SA_22]

was playing with direct lean off... and then trying to smooth it out from drunken crazyness to usable with the smooth settings.

bike felt MUCH lighter but still bit too drunk!

if we could get a slider or something to control direct lean on / assists of direct lean off, i think that could help alot