How to seriously tarnish a 20yrs fantastic career

[HornetMaX]

Even if, it's up to race directors to take measures, not to rides applying their own justice and then complaining about a penalty.
You want to kick MM off, you do it. You get a penalty for that, you keep your mouth shut.

MaX.

[Vini]

My opinion is referring to Marquez in the incident itself aswell.


Rossi didn't want to kick MM off just as Marquez didn't want to kick off Lorenzo in Jerez 2013 or Rossi in Assen 2015 (just a few examples....).
This is my conclusion after watching frame by frame.
I will go further into the incident itself when I give you my arguments.

[Docfumi]

[Hawk]

Supporters Behaviour: There are always bad apples in any supporter fan base that make headlines... Very rarely hear of the good things supporters do. 

Championship Battles: All this talk about other riders that are not in contention for the champs title should keep out of the way? That sounds like pussy politics to me. Lol.... I mean what do we want? A true world champion or a champion who's been given the title because he hasn't had to battle to get it? Personally I'd like to see a true world champion..... I say let them all battle for races no matter what position they are in for the champs. 

MotoGP Politics: There's always been politics in MotoGP and in GP500, the difference is that riders these days haven't got the balls to stand up for the sport and control the destiny of the sport they love; unlike the good old days of motorcycle racing were you had the top riders threatening to boycott races and world champs to create there own series if the authorities didn't do the right thing by the sport and riders alone.... Teams have too much control in what goes on in the sport nowadays for my liking and modern riders are now too scared to act on anything for fear of being sacked by their teams.
The top riders don't seem to realise it these days, but they do have very real power and a voice to change things if they so desired. Shame we don't have more riders today with Casey Stoners attitude... I'm sure if he could've got other top riders to back him up we'd have seen some real good old rider politics taking MotoGP in a great direction. 

Finally: Having looked closely at the Rossi/Marquez incedent - Yes, Rossi was out of order to do what he did but having said that, Marquez did absolutely make a right good old meal of the situation by intentionally crashing when he didn't need to. I'd guarantee that if that had been on a fast corner Marquez would not have ditched his bike like he did..... The whole thing looks like a Pro-Footballers dive for a penalty decision to me and unfortunately Rossi got the crap-end of the stick for it.
Having said that, I do think there has also been some governing body politics involved in that Rossi could well have been disqualified for his actions and therefore handing the World Title to Lorenzo there and then..... That would not have been good for the sport, so in that respect I agree with the light penalty they gave Rossi for what he did.
But overall this incident has only become a big issue because of the way Marquez took the dive to make it look a lot worse an incident than it actually was, and in that I agree with Rossi's account of the incident. 

Hawk.

[Stout Johnson]

What I'd like to know is: let's imagine that in Valencia Lorenzo flies away immediately and Rossi comes back to 4th quickly (both are fairly possible).
If Dani and Marc are with Vale, what should they do in your opinion ? Fight for 2nd place or just let Rossi pass by ?

To me the answer is trivial, no matter what happened. But I'm sure others may think .. uh, let's say differently ...

Championship Battles: All this talk about other riders that are not in contention for the champs title should keep out of the way? That sounds like pussy politics to me. Lol.... I mean what do we want? A true world champion or a champion who's been given the title because he hasn't had to battle to get it? Personally I'd like to see a true world champion..... I say let them all battle for races no matter what position they are in for the champs. 

I do not know to whom these comments are referring. But I scrolled through this topic and did not see one single post that was proclaiming that a rider not involved in the championship battle should not be entitled to fight for his position during a championship battle. So I kind of get the feeling that these comments are referring to me? If that is the case I can only say that my oppinion was not understood one bit 

[Napalm Nick]

 Hehe  maybe me!  from another thread.

Edit: However, personally I think Marc should of stayed the hell out of it. Nobody should mess with a championship battle even if it isn't a 'rule'

But also possible Hawky knows my wife - if pussy politics is involved. 

[HornetMaX]

What I'd like to know is: let's imagine that in Valencia Lorenzo flies away immediately and Rossi comes back to 4th quickly (both are fairly possible).
If Dani and Marc are with Vale, what should they do in your opinion ? Fight for 2nd place or just let Rossi pass by ?

To me the answer is trivial, no matter what happened. But I'm sure others may think .. uh, let's say differently ...

Championship Battles: All this talk about other riders that are not in contention for the champs title should keep out of the way? That sounds like pussy politics to me. Lol.... I mean what do we want? A true world champion or a champion who's been given the title because he hasn't had to battle to get it? Personally I'd like to see a true world champion..... I say let them all battle for races no matter what position they are in for the champs. 

I do not know to whom these comments are referring. But I scrolled through this topic and did not see one single post that was proclaiming that a rider not involved in the championship battle should not be entitled to fight for his position during a championship battle. So I kind of get the feeling that these comments are referring to me? If that is the case I can only say that my oppinion was not understood one bit 

My ones were not referring to you at all of course. I was referring to Rossi's words on Thursday, where he kind of asked other riders to not get involved in his battle with Jorge. That's not the way races work.

MaX.

[davidboda46]

My round up is coming this week. Still trying to wrap my head around everything that happened. Right now I mostly feel sad actually, not because I've always been a Rossi fan but because I feel that everybody lost if we look at the big picture. Even Pedrosa who rode brilliantly to win the race, but not getting the deserved credit cause everybody is so focused on the Marc and Rossi-incident. It was a brilliant season that ended ugly and all three protagonists (Rossi, Marquez and Lorenzo) played their part in tarnishing it. I will go into more details in the round up, but my general opinion is that all of them acted like idiots, one way or another.

Cheers,

/David "Gonzo" Boda #46 

[Hawk]

What I'd like to know is: let's imagine that in Valencia Lorenzo flies away immediately and Rossi comes back to 4th quickly (both are fairly possible).
If Dani and Marc are with Vale, what should they do in your opinion ? Fight for 2nd place or just let Rossi pass by ?

To me the answer is trivial, no matter what happened. But I'm sure others may think .. uh, let's say differently ...

Championship Battles: All this talk about other riders that are not in contention for the champs title should keep out of the way? That sounds like pussy politics to me. Lol.... I mean what do we want? A true world champion or a champion who's been given the title because he hasn't had to battle to get it? Personally I'd like to see a true world champion..... I say let them all battle for races no matter what position they are in for the champs. 

I do not know to whom these comments are referring. But I scrolled through this topic and did not see one single post that was proclaiming that a rider not involved in the championship battle should not be entitled to fight for his position during a championship battle. So I kind of get the feeling that these comments are referring to me? If that is the case I can only say that my oppinion was not understood one bit 

Lol..... My comments do not refer to any individual in particular(more than one has talked about it and agrees with it, from this thread and other threads relating to this same thread discussion ). 
I read your post(#19) and your explanation in your posts of #23 and #26, but your explanation amounted to basically the same intent as your first post(#19), which was basically saying that another rider should not interfere with other riders who are challenging for the riders championship title when said rider has no chance of winning championship title. Is that a misunderstanding?

If Rossi cannot overtake Marquez and get away from him then Marquez has every right(by the rules) to keep fighting for position no matter whether Marquez in running for championship or not, even if that means both riders will ride slower because of their battle.
The results of that battle(slowing each other down) of course can be used for unhonourable and disrespectful riding tactics, but that's racing, and if a rider is not good enough(or the bike isn't good enough) to make that break then he has to put up with it. All part and parcel of  World Championship racing, or any racing for that matter.

Hawk.

[Stout Johnson]

Championship Battles: All this talk about other riders that are not in contention for the champs title should keep out of the way? That sounds like pussy politics to me.

I want to make sure to be understood correctly. I did not say, that anyone should keep out of the way. That seems to suggest, that I would be of the opinion that if Vale is closing in on any other rider, that the other rider would have to move out of the way and let Rossi pass. I have said before that in general of course everybody can battle for his position - because it is racing for god's sake!
But there are numerous indicators suggesting that Marquez just tried to obstruct Rossi in Sepang. I know this cannot be proven and I am not gonna engage in a discussion trying to convince others. I already gave some indicators that seem to suggest it. But for me it is perfectly fine if someone is willing to give Marquez the benefit of the doubt. I just want to make my case that there are also indicators for the opposite and based on that I think it is legit to have a different opinion and even race direction said it seemed to be the case (well it can interpreted). I don't want to be misinterpreted as if I was not in favor of normal racing or proposing any soft politics. I thought I was clear about that before.

I also want to stress (in case I was misunderstood there too) that I condem Rossi's reaction, even if he didn't kick Marquez. He did act in a bad and illegal manner and he should have been superior to that kind of behaviour.

The results of that battle(slowing each other down) of course can be used for unhonourable and disrespectful riding tactics, but that's racing

This is where I disagree. Unhonourable or disrespectful behaviour should not be part of racing, or any sports for that matter. Imo, there is a moral aspect as well. Others might think different. But for me sports battles should always be clean gentlemen-like. I rather lose cleanly than win unhonourably. Btw, Rossi's behaviour imo was not only illegal as it was against rules, it was also very unhonourable and I agree that to some degree it puts a dark spot on his legacy. I just want to point out Marquez was also doing something that puts a dark spot on his legacy. I hope that in some stage of his career Marquez will end up in a situation where he is on the receiving end of such behaviour he sported in Sepang. I wonder how he will react, both on track and verbally.

[WALKEN]

Fact- Rossi did not "KICK" Marquez!

He (nudged) him.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/nudge

[HornetMaX]

Btw, Rossi's behaviour imo was not only illegal as it was against rules, it was also very unhonourable and I agree that to some degree it puts a dark spot on his legacy. I just want to point out Marquez was also doing something that puts a dark spot on his legacy.

All the above is agreed for me.

MaX.

[Hawk]

Championship Battles: All this talk about other riders that are not in contention for the champs title should keep out of the way? That sounds like pussy politics to me.

I want to make sure to be understood correctly. I did not say, that anyone should keep out of the way. That seems to suggest, that I would be of the opinion that if Vale is closing in on any other rider, that the other rider would have to move out of the way and let Rossi pass. I have said before that in general of course everybody can battle for his position - because it is racing for god's sake!
But there are numerous indicators suggesting that Marquez just tried to obstruct Rossi in Sepang. I know this cannot be proven and I am not gonna engage in a discussion trying to convince others. I already gave some indicators that seem to suggest it. But for me it is perfectly fine if someone is willing to give Marquez the benefit of the doubt. I just want to make my case that there are also indicators for the opposite and based on that I think it is legit to have a different opinion and even race direction said it seemed to be the case (well it can interpreted). I don't want to be misinterpreted as if I was not in favor of normal racing or proposing any soft politics. I thought I was clear about that before.

I also want to stress (in case I was misunderstood there too) that I condem Rossi's reaction, even if he didn't kick Marquez. He did act in a bad and illegal manner and he should have been superior to that kind of behaviour.

I hear what your saying there Stout and understand now clearly what you were saying, but as I stated before, and I want to make it clear to you, my post wasn't aimed at you personally. If it was I would've named and quoted you directly in my post. Others agreed with your initial misunderstood statement, as well as others on different threads posting same opinion(nothing against differing opinions at all, everyone has a right to their opinion on forums of course.) 

Also I totally agree with you that Rossi should have been superior to what he did.... probably should've done a Biaggi on Marquez after the race instead(Remember that scuffle they had after the race that time years ago? Lol. ), at least he wouldn't be starting at the back of the grid for the last race.  At worst probably a fine.

The results of that battle(slowing each other down) of course can be used for unhonourable and disrespectful riding tactics, but that's racing

This is where I disagree. Unhonourable or disrespectful behaviour should not be part of racing, or any sports for that matter. Imo, there is a moral aspect as well. Others might think different. But for me sports battles should always be clean gentlemen-like. I rather lose cleanly than win unhonourably. Btw, Rossi's behaviour imo was not only illegal as it was against rules, it was also very unhonourable and I agree that to some degree it puts a dark spot on his legacy. I just want to point out Marquez was also doing something that puts a dark spot on his legacy. I hope that in some stage of his career Marquez will end up in a situation where he is on the receiving end of such behaviour he sported in Sepang. I wonder how he will react, both on track and verbally.

Oh... I absolutely agree with you on that..... I only stated what I did to tell it how it is in reality when the chips are down for the run-up to winning a world title battle. Seems some riders will do anything they can to make sure they win or hinder a rider they don't want to win the title at almost any cost. 

Being honourable and respectful to fellow competitors is what true sports are all about... Just a shame big business seems to be spoiling that golden rule in top sports these days.

Hawk

[Stout Johnson]

I hear what your saying there Stout and understand now clearly what you were saying, but as I stated before, and I want to make it clear to you, my post wasn't aimed at you personally. If it was I would've named and quoted you directly in my post. Others agreed with your initial misunderstood statement, as well as others on different threads posting same opinion(nothing against differing opinions at all, everyone has a right to their opinion on forums of course.) 

Glad to hear that Hawk. It can get irksome, if people try to twist the words in one's mouth and seem to see a discussion like a battle where someone wins and someone loses. I was under the impression that you were trying to do that, but it is clearer now. For me, a discussion is an exchange that will eventually lead to a clearer view on the discussed topic. Different views with their respective justifications and rationales provide a wider idea on a topic. I am willing to accept different views (if comprehensible), maybe even adapt certain aspects of a well-founded opinion - but I expect the same from others. Otherwise any discussion is only self-portrayal.

Also I totally agree with you that Rossi should have been superior to what he did.... probably should've done a Biaggi on Marquez after the race instead(Remember that scuffle they had after the race that time years ago? Lol. ), at least he wouldn't be starting at the back of the grid for the last race.  At worst probably a fine.

Yes, he should have swallowed his anger during the race and explode afterwards. If he would have done that, actually I think Marquez would be in the line of fire by media and fans, which mostly is directed at Rossi at the moment. I think since Rossi pretty much knew his title is on the line, he got so enraged about Marquez being such a pain in the a$$, he kind of lost it. I think he got so enraged, he did not even care about the consequences (because he must have been aware of the fact that he would get a penalty of some kind, even if Marquez would not have crashed, which he did not intend to). I think one can somehow compare it to a situation, where someone grabbed the butt of your girlfriend. Legally, one should report the person to the police and he should be charged with sexual harassment and/or insult. But the normal behaviour to give the offender and good whopping for himself even if that means oneself would be charged with assault or whatever. 

Anyways, thanks for clearing it up mate. Cheers!

[HornetMaX]

New chapter: Rossi is asking the CAS in Losanne to cancel his penalty.

https://motomatters.com/news/2015/10/30/valentino_rossi_appeals_sepang_penalty_t.html

As I said, what you do/say after doing something wrong is even more important than the wrong thing itself ...

MaX.