How to seriously tarnish a 20yrs fantastic career

[Hawk]

But what would you prefer (if you were Rossi):

• to start last in Valencia but keep your 7pts lead (as in relaity), or
• to quali as normal in Valencia and have only 4pts lead (not to speak about being 9pts behind) ?

People (not necessarily here on this forum) moan about the decision but then do not answer the simple question.
4pts lead mean sthat if jorge wins, it's over ...

Funnily enough, nobody dared to ask this to Rossi 

If Rossi started with a 4pts lead instead of 7pts( I presume for that he could qualify for position on the grid?) then at least Rossi and Jorge would be able to battle it out fair and square for the champs; it would be a case of whoever wins the race(between Rossi and Jorge) wins the Championship, that would've been great! Surely the better of the two options for the good of MotoGP history?

Or am I missing something here? 

Hawk.

[HornetMaX]

If Rossi started with a 4pts lead instead of 7pts( I presume for that he could qualify for position on the grid?) then at least Rossi and Jorge would be able to battle it out fair and square for the champs; it would be a case of whoever wins the race(between Rossi and Jorge) wins the Championship, that would've been great! Surely the better of the two options for the good of MotoGP history?

Or am I missing something here? 

This is what you (and me and others, as motogp fans) would like, right.

By my question was different: if you were Rossi, what would you prefer ?
Do you think he has more chances starting last but with 7pts lead or starting normally (1st/2nd row) but with only 4pts lead ?

[Stout Johnson]

But what would you prefer (if you were Rossi):

• to start last in Valencia but keep your 7pts lead (as in relaity), or
• to quali as normal in Valencia and have only 4pts lead (not to speak about being 9pts behind) ?

People (not necessarily here on this forum) moan about the decision but then do not answer the simple question.
4pts lead mean sthat if jorge wins, it's over ...

Funnily enough, nobody dared to ask this to Rossi 

The discussion imo does not really boil down to these options... But as you seem to be eager for an answer :

I would take the 4point lead anytime if I have all opportunities in my hands. Any sportsman would do that and Rossi for sure would have preferred it imho.

[Stout Johnson]

Do you think he has more chances starting last but with 7pts lead or starting normally (1st/2nd row) but with only 4pts lead ?

the latter for sure imo, running thru the whole field just makes it so much hazardous. And having the possibility to fight directly with the main opponent makes it so much more rewarding.

The question on how other riders should react when Rossi is trying to overtake, has already been discussed. I am thinking of Rossi being able to get within 7th (9pts) or 6th(10pts). If the Hondas work quite well again on Valencia then it is not impssible that Lorenzo might find himself in 3rd place (16pts) only. If Rossi gets in 6th then Lorenzo would have to get by one of the Hondas of Marquez and Pedrosa. I wonder how hard the spaniards would "battle" that out, given that a spaniard's title is at stake in front of a spanish crowd. I tend to give the benefit of the doubt, but I think I would not jump to any conclusions that Marquez would not fight equally as hard as he did with Rossi in Sepang 

[Hawk]

If I was Rossi I would definitely want to be able to qualify and race for the win. I can almost guarantee that Rossi believes he can win the race, and let's face it, anything can happen in the race, especially if Rossi could have the chance to put Jorge under a lot of pressure(that's given that Jorge would be riding in 1st place for a lot of the race?). 

But yeah... If I were Rossi I would want that opportunity for a qualifying position on the grid; preferably also with the 7pt lead rather than the 4pt lead. 

Whatever happens, this last race is going to be very exciting! But as the relegated under-dog I'll be pushing for Rossi for sure!

Hawk.

[HornetMaX]

But what would you prefer (if you were Rossi):

• to start last in Valencia but keep your 7pts lead (as in relaity), or
• to quali as normal in Valencia and have only 4pts lead (not to speak about being 9pts behind) ?

People (not necessarily here on this forum) moan about the decision but then do not answer the simple question.
4pts lead mean sthat if jorge wins, it's over ...

Funnily enough, nobody dared to ask this to Rossi 

The discussion imo does not really boil down to these options... But as you seem to be eager for an answer :

I would take the 4point lead anytime if I have all opportunities in my hands. Any sportsman would do that and Rossi for sure would have preferred it imho.

To me it's not so obvious that he prefers option#2: in the recent races jorge has always been faster than him, and vale knows it ...

But let's assume you are right, option #2 is better: then why in hell in Sepang vale didn't settle for 4th place (and complain after) ?!?!

[Stout Johnson]

To me it's not so obvious that he prefers option#2: in the recent races jorge has always been faster than him, and vale knows it ...

But let's assume you are right, option #2 is better: then why in hell in Sepang vale didn't settle for 4th place (and complain after) ?!?!

Why would he? He was faster than Marquez at that point (please do not argue with lap times after the incident) and he had reason to believe he could get into the fight between Lorenzo and Pedrosa. As a racer you don't miss out on such opportunities, because that would have made his position for Valencia rather comfortable (just imagine he would have overtaken Lorenzo). 

[Hawk]

To some extent that's a good point Max..... I can only say that Rossi obviously uncharacteristically lost his head that day for some reason. Maybe in his own head he wanted to teach Marquez a good lesson which has obviously backfired on him. A little like a situation were you've given someone several warnings for giving you grief in a bar then give them a good slapping for ignoring those warnings, and then you yourself get arrested for grievous bodily harm. Lol

A little unfair, but I guess the law is the law right? 

Hawk.

[HornetMaX]

Why would he? He was faster than Marquez at that point (please do not argue with lap times after the incident) and he had reason to believe he could get into the fight between Lorenzo and Pedrosa.

Well, one can't at the same time say "I'm faster than you  but I can't pass you". These are bikes, not cars.
If he was faster than marc, he would have passed him and forgot him in 2 laps. But I don't think that was the case.

To some extent that's a good point Max..... I can only say that Rossi obviously uncharacteristically lost his head that day for some reason.

See, we agree from time to time.

The champion's move, the veteran's move, the smart move was to let marc get 3rd and complain about his behaviour after: vale would have been totally on the side of the "victim" instead of on the one of the "guilty" (even if marc was arguably on the one of the "annoying prick").

But then again, to me it was clear from thursday press conf that vale had something to settle with marc. And he settled it all good. But after you can't complain if you get a penalty ... especially when you announced it beforehand.

[Vini]

fucking CAS, this is bullshit


now the championship is officially ruined thanks to that little prick.

[CapeDoctor]

i have no doubt that, given the opportunity, Marquez will rather help Lorenzo than Rossi. if he had no reason before, he certainly does now.
a bike race can never be predicted, though - one fall could drastically change the outcome.

[Blackheart]

Well then Lorenzo dont deserve it too.....big help from Márquez in last race!!!......i will love to see Andre Lennone do the samme shit to Lorenzo this weekend!!!

Who?  Andrea Iannone!

[Stout Johnson]

Well, one can't at the same time say "I'm faster than you  but I can't pass you". These are bikes, not cars.
If he was faster than marc, he would have passed him and forgot him in 2 laps. But I don't think that was the case.

With all due respect, that is not true if speed difference is not more than about 1sec per lap. I already referred to that in an earlier post...

I can always fight off people that are 1s faster than myself, just by braking late and making a "block pass". Then the faster guy gets me in next straight or corner. After that I do my block pass again. If I choose to do that, I can fight with faster (<=1 s faster) guys all the race. But most of the time that doesn't make sense, because both of us are going slower than we would on our own and we end up letting guys behind us catch up. Or the faster guys gets annoyed and makes a dumb move and we both end up in the crash barrier.

The champion's move, the veteran's move, the smart move was to let marc get 3rd and complain about his behaviour after: vale would have been totally on the side of the "victim" instead of on the one of the "guilty" (even if marc was arguably on the one of the "annoying prick").

But then again, to me it was clear from thursday press conf that vale had something to settle with marc. And he settled it all good. But after you can't complain if you get a penalty ... especially when you announced it beforehand.

I agree to some degree. Rossi should have been smarter, he just should have battled for the best position he could have gotten - even if that would have meant to only get 4th. At least everybody would have seen that Marquez really was the un-classy prick. Now Rossi himself is in that role. But we argue from the standpoint of knowing all consequences after the race. Asking from someone to stay ultra-unemotional with a pulse of 180 is maybe asking too much. And talking about champion's move: A champion's move from Marquez would just have been to overtake Rossi cleanly (if he was fast enough) and then let Rossi eat his dust and his words. That would have sent a message, a clean message on the track. Except he chose this un-classy way and somehow fueled the accusations of Rossi (Marquez helping Lorenzo).

But I disagree with Rossi settling for 4th place without trying to fight for 3rd, because as I explained before he had realistic hopes of maybe even closing in on Lorenzo and maybe get to fight with him. You cannot pass on an opportunity like this if you wanna fight for the championship (Valencia would have been a close battle either way). If he would taken 4th and maybe Lorenzo would have won (at that time Rossi had to consider that very much), that would have meant Lorenzo coming into Valencia with a 1point lead in the championship standings. That clearly is not something that you consciously settle for...

In general, looking back at this whole incident, I think Rossi made a mistake by calling out Marquez and accusing him of helping Lorenzo in Phillip Island. For one that clearly is not the case imo and secondly he misjudged how Marquez would react. For almost any other rider Rossi's comments would have somehow caused the reaction that the accused rider maybe would have verbally backfired, but he would not stayed out of any hard battles. They would also have overtaken Rossi if clearly faster, but not if fighting would have meant to be a hard battle and then somehow maybe leaving a picture of Rossi being right with his accusations. But I think Rossi misjudged the character of Marquez. Marquez is one of the fiercest competitors ever and he was not to just take it and not react to it. So I think, Rossi himself called the demons that caught him in the end. I can understand Marquez not just backing down and trying to show off Rossi. But I think he should have somehow been smarter and have done it differently. Because the way he did it in Sepang clearly did not prove the accusations of Rossi wrong.

[Boerenlater]

fucking CAS, this is bullshit


now the championship is officially ruined thanks to that little prick.

Whom are you referring to exactly?

[HornetMaX]

Another weird thing I often hear (and read): Marquez helped Lorenzo (meaning this was his goal).

I don't think Marc wanted to help Jorge: they are not so close (to my knowledge) and the fact they are both from Spain means nothing: Biaggi was italian too ...
To me it's more that March had something against Vale (and vice versa). It's not the same thing.

Whoever wins will not deserve it. In an ideal world, I'd give the title to Pedrosa: at least he stayed out of all this. But in an ideal world, we wouldn't be commenting all this

Well, one can't at the same time say "I'm faster than you  but I can't pass you". These are bikes, not cars.
If he was faster than marc, he would have passed him and forgot him in 2 laps. But I don't think that was the case.

With all due respect, that is not true if speed difference is not more than about 1sec per lap. I already referred to that in an earlier post...

I disagree: we've seen many races where a rider can overtake and put some gap in, ending the race with 5sec advantage: you can pass and go away even if you're less than 1sec per lap faster.
The problem is that vale was not faster than marc (quite the contrary probably).

I agree to some degree. Rossi should have been smarter, he just should have battled for the best position he could have gotten - even if that would have meant to only get 4th. At least everybody would have seen that Marquez really was the un-classy prick. Now Rossi himself is in that role. But we argue from the standpoint of knowing all consequences after the race. Asking from someone to stay ultra-unemotional with a pulse of 180 is maybe asking too much. And talking about champion's move: A champion's move from Marquez would just have been to overtake Rossi cleanly (if he was fast enough) and then let Rossi eat his dust and his words. That would have sent a message, a clean message on the track. Except he chose this un-classy way and somehow fueled the accusations of Rossi (Marquez helping Lorenzo).

100% aligned on that (except the "asking too much", that's what they are paid for no ? ).

In general, looking back at this whole incident, I think Rossi made a mistake by calling out Marquez and accusing him of helping Lorenzo in Phillip Island. For one that clearly is not the case imo and secondly he misjudged how Marquez would react. For almost any other rider Rossi's comments would have somehow caused the reaction that the accused rider maybe would have verbally backfired, but he would not stayed out of any hard battles. They would also have overtaken Rossi if clearly faster, but not if fighting would have meant to be a hard battle and then somehow maybe leaving a picture of Rossi being right with his accusations. But I think Rossi misjudged the character of Marquez. Marquez is one of the fiercest competitors ever and he was not to just take it and not react to it. So I think, Rossi himself called the demons that caught him in the end. I can understand Marquez not just backing down and trying to show off Rossi. But I think he should have somehow been smarter and have done it differently. Because the way he did it in Sepang clearly did not prove the accusations of Rossi wrong.

And 100% aligned on that too

The summary is: Rossi made 2 ugly mistakes (Sepang pre-race press conf accusations and Sepang race behavior) and got a deserved penalty. Marquez behaved as a prick (in Sepang, but in Phillip Island there's nothing he can be accused of) and lost a 3rd place. Lorenzo showed poor thinking in his post-Sepang declarations.

But people hoping the CAS could have any judgement of this are living in a parallel universe.

MaX.