to reality

[Klax75]

I will have to check a bit later Bob and get back to you.

I know I had to turn down the Anticipation because it was too much but off my head its about 20% of the slider.
The only snapping I find is when you run on and your head suddenly realises you're on a different trajectory to the planned one lol.  But even this isn't too bad at a lowish setting.

I'm starting to use the analogue left/right look more to 'anticipate' the corner now. God I wish TrackIR worked.

I did testing with Track IR5 with GP Bikes, I got it to work sort of about a year and half ago. But the problem was had to use mouse emulation and eventually the view would start drifting off of center, so your had kept turning a little further each time. I asked Piboso for Track IR support but he said no plans for that.

[Napalm Nick]

Indeed Klax, I have read up on the various forum discussion history here and the work you did.

I think its a real shame. Nothing brings a Sim to life more like being able to look around naturally. It also makes racing 100% better.
I can live without it especially if VR headset support is being considered. I haven't looked at the Freetrack option. But its a shame.

I would stick it quite high in the wishlist after the bugs and normal development stuff.

[G0G]

I have only every used Helmet view, your video is helmet view with mouse look. Which since you can't use Track IR, or I couldn't get any of the other types to work. Mouse while using DST is a little to hard. lol When the next version has Rift DK2 support will be different. But tucking in might hurt, since when I tried it on Kart Pro, tucking in using the Rift DK2 in Beta 12, kind of hurts and makes your eyes want to cross.

The other rider had a slightly more upper body hang off body style when riding. The current rider has more of a old school 90's Grand Prix style of riding. Where his butt hangs off, but upper body is more center behind the wind screen.

Well said and I agree fully,
It's ridiculously hard.. too hard. To be fair though, it is ridiculously hard in reality too.  I also think this will develop the skills needed for seamless transition when occulus gets off their asses. Real Rider POV should be encouraged because that is what the real boys are seeing..  I also agree that the rider is morphed back in time. Instead of celebrating Marquez's, unprecedented, astonishing rider position, POVs, corner grip and results.. we are going back to 1992.
We only need to look at where Marquez's head position is mid corner. From down there, it seem like the curb is going to hit you in the face. The bubble of the bike is ABOVE YOU!! There are no reference points to visually take bearings from. One must learn to forget about the fairing an headstock as reference points to track position as they cannot be seen from these lean off angles. It's a long, long way from chase view, I can testify.
There is a new camera out this year in MotoGP. It was on Dovi's bike in COTA.. It is a gyroscopic 'look to apex' camera. Exciting but, alas, it is still pivoting like the GPB cams. The only way to give us POV cam angles is to put a helmet cam on the rider. As a compromise in GPB, the look to apex is WAY better than naught.

[G0G]

What are your settings for onboard view and corner anticipation?

That makes me dizzy.. When the riders head snaps back to look forward after or mid corner.. Seems a bit glitchy to me so I sacked it off..

I have been experimenting with settings. Most of the time I have no aids. I've been using auto rider movement because I cannot do it all as it stands. I use a joystick in my right hand and the mouse to look as I rider. My left hand becomes my rider's head. GPB could easily make this 'look to apex' just as realistic as my manual movements. Cant see that being an issue.
Joystick
Push forward=accelerate Pull back= Front Brake Twist= rider lean Push left/right = bike lean
Mouse = Rider Look.
If the rider wasnt so badly screwed up ATM, I would try my wheel along with the joystick to see how I could incorporate the pedals.

As far as the "SNAP" back to center. I have asked several times to no avail: How do I retard the 'return to center' so it isnt a snap? When I am leaned off the bike fully, I am a twisted mess, when the corner is finished, the rider must return to center of bike. If I do not return the rider to Top Dead Center(TDC), I am susceptible to mis-steering because I am not centered on the bike. That is where the 'return rider to center' button is programmed o the joystick. If I could slow this return to center down, it would be fantastic as: NO rider ever returns to center that quickly. It confuses people watching because it is such an 'oh snap'!
So, does anyone know how to slow the return to center feature?

[G0G]

I did testing with Track IR5 with GP Bikes, I got it to work sort of about a year and half ago. But the problem was had to use mouse emulation and eventually the view would start drifting off of center, so your had kept turning a little further each time. I asked Piboso for Track IR support but he said no plans for that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N64D2u8wF0k

Dunno if you caught this GPB sim I built a few years ago. In a nutshell:
Bicycle helmet with 3 superbright LEDs facing backward. Wii remote watching the LEDs. Sending it's info to a dongle on the laptop running GPB. The program 'head tracker' was the interface. I had made a proper screen but lost interest because of other interests: real racing!
I stilll have this gear and I will ship it to anyone who is serious enough to build it better and show us some hotlaps! This system would be AWESOME on a sim bike as you could lean over and actually loo k into the apex, fun as hell.

I also suffered from 'drift' It is hard to find this center when we are immersed in VR. When I pressed the return to center I was looking at a rider centered on the bike but my real body was still leaned.. very confusing.


Another vid with look to apex.. Study the looking part(bottom cam), I am looking the exact, same way I look from the real cockpit of a real superbike on a real track during a real race. My head is turned into the corner WAY before I arrive.  The bike is WAY GONE out of view. WAY GONE.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkGn1JT5bVI

[Napalm Nick]

Great stuff GoG

I always have a problem in bike games when the bike disappears from view completely because I have no body sensors telling me its still there, still a part if me, its dis-orientating . I have to best guess where the wheels are. Maybe with a handlebar style controller this would get better.
Peripheral vision in game is what we need.
Is it something we would get used to do you think?

Thinking peripheral vision has anyone used 3 monitors successfully?

[Warlock]

What are your settings for onboard view and corner anticipation?

That makes me dizzy.. When the riders head snaps back to look forward after or mid corner.. Seems a bit glitchy to me so I sacked it off..

My settings

Field of view :65
Pitch: 50%
corner anticipation:50%

[Napalm Nick]

Update Bob.

What are your settings for onboard view and corner anticipation?

These are still being tweaked but this setup is best so far. I have come to the conclusion that one setting profile should not be made to fit every bike.

FOV   70
Pitch  45%
Tilt     5
Corner Ant 30%

reviewing these settings I now ask what is the difference between Face tracking and Tracking?

[G0G]

Great stuff GoG

I always have a problem in bike games when the bike disappears from view completely because I have no body sensors telling me its still there, still a part if me, its dis-orientating .
This is normal. It really takes a while to get away from visual references from he center of the bike. This is how it was done up until the last, few years. The riding position of the 1990s looks almost comical compared to the new position. We see street 99% of street riding  using a visual reference from the bike's center to the side of the road. This is impossible at race lean angles.So, how to best learn it?
I would say: Forget the 'centered bike' concept. Maybe try to think of the bike as a sidecar... You are the monkey in the corners and the pilot in the straights!

I have to best guess where the wheels are. Maybe with a handlebar style controller this would get better.
Peripheral vision in game is what we need.
Is it something we would get used to do you think?
I think you will be amazed when you see this sim in VR. No more looking to a monitor in front of the bike. This will change all your visual standards. No more chase view.
Let's say you do end up with a VR Headset(which is very likely because it is rapidly advancing toward us for reasonable prices!).  What if Piboso does make it accurate enough to give advantages to those who learn to ride in the Marquezian position? It is obvious that, in real life, Marquez has an advantage because of his extreme riding position. The physics of braking, cornering, accelerating bear this out.
So, a rider learning to ride like Marquez within GPB, in theory, should be able to go faster than someone not leaning the rider to such an extreme. Whoever learns to ride like the champ in GPB, should not lose this skill advantage to generic, 'one view fits all' views. Not fair to not give some bona fide, certified VR advantages to the simmer who simulates.

Thinking peripheral vision has anyone used 3 monitors successfully?
Great question! I was wondering the same. It could make 'glancing' a viable alternative to straight up staring forward.

[Napalm Nick]

Agree Gog and you have an exciting way of expressing it.  I want it all now please. And I'm already the monkey so half way there!
Tell me I wont have to roll around on the carpet getting my knees down with a VR set?  Bones are too old.
So now I gotta find 3 monitors.....

[HornetMaX]

What if Piboso does make it accurate enough to give advantages to those who learn to ride in the Marquezian position? It is obvious that, in real life, Marquez has an advantage because of his extreme riding position. The physics of braking, cornering, accelerating bear this out.
So, a rider learning to ride like Marquez within GPB, in theory, should be able to go faster than someone not leaning the rider to such an extreme. Whoever learns to ride like the champ in GPB, should not lose this skill advantage to generic, 'one view fits all' views. Not fair to not give some bona fide, certified VR advantages to the simmer who simulates.

I can hear Klax75 requesting you to play with DST only, otherwise you have a unfair advantage ...

Side note: the most efficient way to ride a bike depends ... on the bike. You don't ride a 20yrs old 500cc bike the same as you ride today's motogp.
So it's not granted at all that riding Marquez style at the time would have been any faster (if possible at all).

MaX.

[Napalm Nick]

Could I be bold and ask you guys who dabbled with Corner Anticipation a long time ago to revisit it with the kind of settings I use. I don't know if its been updated or improved or anything but I actually think its very good for keeping the head on the racing line. For tighter curves I add a bit more 'look' with some analogue stick (though this will be used primarily for keeping track of who's around me in-race)

Obviously you need to use POV Helmet view none of that stationary Tank helmet malarkey or it is a nonsense. 

I don't seem to suffer any 'return to centre snap' ? 

Maybe one day there will be a range of servers allowing all combinations of difficulty. I mean I wouldn't say NO ASSISTS at the moment because the fanbase isn't big enough (hell I'm not even sure the onboard view only fanbase is big enough) and I also believe those having no assists will be faster anyway once practiced in the art. At the top of the difficulty tree might be DST only and the server will be full of Demi Gods all chanting Kerlax Kerlax.

[G0G]

Agree Gog and you have an exciting way of expressing it.  I want it all now please. And I'm already the monkey so half way there!
Tell me I wont have to roll around on the carpet getting my knees down with a VR set?  Bones are too old.
So now I gotta find 3 monitors.....

!!

I know that native monitor support is quite important. Otherwise, visuals are compromised. I am very interested in any progress you make in this regard!

Side note: the most efficient way to ride a bike depends ... on the bike. You don't ride a 20yrs old 500cc bike the same as you ride today's motogp.
So it's not granted at all that riding Marquez style at the time would have been any faster (if possible at all).

MaX.

It has more to do with the tires than the bike actually. We have seen great advances in power, suspension and electronic aids, but, the tires have made most of the difference.. because of their evolution. The compounds(multiple), the shape have evolved significantly. Marquez is the in the early generation of mean leaners. He started out hanging off a bike and refined it beautifully. But, the tires were always waiting for him. Let him try to ride his trademark ways on an older bike and tires... I would predict him having to struggle to get to 50 degrees.. 60 degrees would be impossible. 
My point about rewarding those who ride like Marquez in GPB is: In reality, he is getting more grip and acceleration whilst being less hard on the tire. A winning combination without doubt. It cant be easy, if it was, the rest of the field would be on to it already.
If people decide to realistically simulate this angle/view/position in GPB, should they not have the same payoffs and benefits Marquez enjoys in reality??

Posted by: Napalm Nick

Could I be bold and ask you guys who dabbled with Corner Anticipation a long time ago to revisit it with the kind of settings I use. I don't know if its been updated or improved or anything but I actually think its very good for keeping the head on the racing line.

I gave up on corner anticipation, as it was not realistic enough for me. It is WAY better than none, but still...
The latest GPB has kept the rider high in position. Making the head high and making it impossible to do the MM thingy.

You can see me "snap" back to center a few times in this vid..
https://youtu.be/mUaev91MjnQ

[Napalm Nick]

I gave up on corner anticipation, as it was not realistic enough for me. It is WAY better than none, but still...
The latest GPB has kept the rider high in position. Making the head high and making it impossible to do the MM thingy.
You can see me "snap" back to center a few times in this vid..
https://youtu.be/mUaev91MjnQ

Ah yes I see it now.  Odd.

MM thingy aside and I know its not realistic enough but I'm glad you say its way better than none. I really like it for the fact that GpB has it if you know what I mean.  There's hope that as other riding styles are introduced it might even be a basis for MM style movement.

[Klax75]

What if Piboso does make it accurate enough to give advantages to those who learn to ride in the Marquezian position? It is obvious that, in real life, Marquez has an advantage because of his extreme riding position. The physics of braking, cornering, accelerating bear this out.
So, a rider learning to ride like Marquez within GPB, in theory, should be able to go faster than someone not leaning the rider to such an extreme. Whoever learns to ride like the champ in GPB, should not lose this skill advantage to generic, 'one view fits all' views. Not fair to not give some bona fide, certified VR advantages to the simmer who simulates.

I can hear Klax75 requesting you to play with DST only, otherwise you have a unfair advantage ...

Side note: the most efficient way to ride a bike depends ... on the bike. You don't ride a 20yrs old 500cc bike the same as you ride today's motogp.
So it's not granted at all that riding Marquez style at the time would have been any faster (if possible at all).

MaX.

I agree having a Marquez riding style while just using a 500cc would look kind of silly. lol. The new rider on a 500cc looks great.