Hi all,
First off, ive always kept away from bike games as they never really worked for me so ive been sim driving for years instead. Hats off to Piboso for making something that actually works well and has got me hooked. Good work man 8)
Ive had a wish for a decent bike rig and been thnking about it for a long time with many ideas, most of which wont work. But having lurked around here, xsim and a few other places, and seen what other folks have managed and what software is about..... Its time to build.
This is what i had in my head for a long while before i even saw it....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-qyqn9ZO980
I also have an old dead 96 fireblade. She is in a sorry old state and after a good look over her, she is never going to get back to the road so i plan to use the frame and headstock/bars as the basis.
I plan on a box section "foot" to start with. That way i'll have some actual bike controls in the right place for those panic moments. The old spare logitech ffb wheel and pedals that im using are a million times better than a pad but its still like driving a bike shaped car :)
I'll hack the wheel so it attaches to the shortened forks and see where that goes. Having read Chris and DD's posts, i think that will do to start.
The throttle will go on a pot from the pedals.
Gears i'll hack to the wheel buttons.
Front and rear brakes will be on load sensors inside proper hydrualic calipers (all be it cheap pit bike stuff.. gotta luv the 'bay)
Im knocking up the foot at work and it should pivot through the swing arm spindle. Therefore the first motion will be pitch. Once thats working i'll be full of knowledge to make a new base for roll. I know its alot of weight to shift but they managed it in the vid' above so im sure i can engineer sonething. It might not be pretty, but it'll be something ;D
Im sure you have all seen this....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aEoSGu1XaNg&list=RDCMUC7q1D1oOjzrk7yqVi8nHkcQ&start_radio=1&rv=aEoSGu1XaNg&t=152
Im sure its not hydraulic unless anyone knows different? I know its helped with springs but its still alot more weight than im gonna try and move.
Whilst designing the roll, im also thinking i might as well design to add some yaw in there for abit of traction loss. All that leaves is abit of fornt to back heave, lol
How hard can it possibly be ???? ;D
I'll keep ya posted as and when stuff happens.
Cheers,
Slider.
Hey man, sounds like an awesome project!
The Logitech is good to start with, especially with all the buttons and potentiometers it comes with!
Looking forward to seeing the future of this!
Cheers Chris. I dont think it will be a quick process, lol.
The frame is stripped and ive welded the dent up in the l/H spa where the bar has hit it (not my doing).
Im going to get it sprayed with Cerekote i think to get it all uniform again but i have to finish the foot first. Unfortunately i dont get alot of time to do stuff at work so as soon as its mounted and clean i can bring it home and fiddle in the evenings.
So what are people thoughts on UDP? is it really that unreliable for this sort of thing or is just 'ok'? I ask as i can get udp data but im struggling with the other types.
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These things take time. It's part of the fun!
Model looks nice! (I'd brace the upside down "L" but I guess it's just the rough concept bottom frame")
UDP is just fine. Most telemetry isn't faster than 60Hz anyway (I think). That leaves lots of headroom even if losing packets.
I don't think making each axe one by one is a good idea, i mean it will be more simple and more reliable to first make the bike mounted on a ball joint rather than a single axe . All the DOF will just after depend on number of motor 'you'll be using !
Yeah, putting a UV joint under where the footpegs are probably makes it easier to expand. Heave will be a big step though if you bolt the chassis to the ground.
Quote from: Chris_Beeves on January 07, 2022, 06:01:21 AMThese things take time. It's part of the fun!
Model looks nice! (I'd brace the upside down "L" but I guess it's just the rough concept bottom frame")
UDP is just fine. Most telemetry isn't faster than 60Hz anyway (I think). That leaves lots of headroom even if losing packets.
Cheers Chriss Yep, just a rough sketch for now. Im happy to hear UDP is good to go as i didnt really want to learn the whole VS thing if i didnt have too :)
Quote from: poumpouny on January 07, 2022, 06:38:30 AMI don't think making each axe one by one is a good idea, i mean it will be more simple and more reliable to first make the bike mounted on a ball joint rather than a single axe . All the DOF will just after depend on number of motor 'you'll be using !
Hi Poumpouny, thanks for the input. My train of thought is that the pitch rotates from the CoG somewhere around the riders seat, no matter what angle the bike leans at. I'm happy to have it lower at the swingarm pivot for ease of making the rotating joint. I cant see much difference as we are not going down the road.
The roll rotates around the tyre contact points so a different axis but still in a fixed way as in the first video i posted, regardless of what pitch you have. I think a UJ would have the effect of lifting the wheels off the ground (if it had any) and would feel different.
That said, i can get the frame mounted and brace it to a fixed level position so i can sort the controls and have something i can use 'on track'.
From there i can build the pitch control/ motor etc and learn what i need to know and still keep riding.
Then, the upright from the cross frame base will be changed to a rotating roll point once ive got a way of powering it and moving all that weight.
Im abit busy this weekend but i'll try and do a sketch that might make sense of my poor descriptions, lol.
I had a spare ten mins after work so i knocked up the 'foot'. Its only tacked together to mock up the other bits for size, seat height etc. and it seems about right.
The pillow bearings on the swing arm bolt fit lovely and it will pitch alot of degrees without hitting the original frame crossbeams. Annnd, its there is zero play in it too :D
Ive tacked in a temp' brace to hold it at the right pitch for now untill i get to the motion stage.
I picked up some R6 race fairings from a top bloke on ebay who sold me the whole lot, screen and all for a very reasonable price... Cheers Piers. 8) Its gonna need a little trimming here and there to fit the blade frame but should look the part more than the bloaty Blade stuff.
With abit of luck i can get the rear subframe knocked up tomorow and have a sit on her, lol
Nice progress!!
Cheers Chris,
Sooooo, looking at the bit of Processing UDP code posted by maggikk22, i added what i think is yaw. This seems relevant to the circuit rather than the bike on its own, as if yaw 0 points north for example. Is this correct or have i just picked the wrong piece of data?
I guess what im saying is that i was expecting the bike yaw to be 0 when on its chosen line and then change +/- if it got out of shape of its trajectory if you lost the front or rear. I.e, traction loss.
Or, do ihave to calculate traction loss from sudden jumps in yaw data?
Slider.
Yeah, yaw is global heading. You'd need to calculate. Wouldn't use only yaw for traction loss though.
Edit: not global heading, bike heading in the global axis system.. :)
The difference between yaw and direction could be a good start maybe?
Quote from: Chris_Beeves on January 11, 2022, 08:51:30 PMYeah, yaw is global heading. You'd need to calculate. Wouldn't use only yaw for traction loss though.
Edit: not global heading, bike heading in the global axis system.. :)
The difference between yaw and direction could be a good start maybe?
Ok Matey, cheers for the confirmation that im looking at the right bit of data. I dont need it for a long while yet but i was just trying to understand it all. I saw Max's HUD has a "out of line " orange needle so guessed it was a number somewhere. No worries, i'll sort it later :)
If still trying to understand what all 218 data entries do per number from running Maggik's code, lol.
Slider.
https://www.gp-bikes.com/downloads/gpb_example.c
Udp follows the same structure as the other plugins. Maybe that can help figuring it out?
Cheers Chris, i did have that info but was just being abit lazy to count it all out, lol.
Hi all, ive been mucking about with the R6 tank and seat, trying to get it to fit the blade frame somewhere near nice. Ive got a little fibreglassing to do there so held up a little.
In the meantime i found this hoverboard locally :) Its supposed to be an all terrain 10 inch wheel jobby, or, more importantly, 350w motors.
Ive also ordered a BTS7960B 43A driver in the hope it is big enough unless someone here knows different.
Now i need an encoder but how big? is a 600p/r enough for the FFb or do i need more res'? I appreciate more is always better but im starting on a budget here so any advice would be cool 8)
Cheers
'petrolscooter' on ebay are good for cheap chinese electric scooter motors and asscociated parts, based in Coventry UK
Quote from: Slider46 on January 17, 2022, 06:25:42 PMIn the meantime i found this hoverboard locally (https://forum.piboso.com/Smileys/alienine/smiley.png) Its supposed to be an all terrain 10 inch wheel jobby, or, more importantly, 350w motors.
Ive also ordered a BTS7960B 43A driver in the hope it is big enough unless someone here knows different.
Now i need an encoder but how big? is a 600p/r enough for the FFb or do i need more res'? I appreciate more is always better but im starting on a budget here so any advice would be cool (https://forum.piboso.com/Smileys/alienine/cool.png)
Cheers
The hoverboard motors are excellent, but you will need a better motor driver. The BTS is a H-bridge, you will need a BLDC driver with encoder support. Something like the VESC or similar.
600p/r is on the low side, but you can always use a gear ratio. I use my 2000p/r encoders 1:2 so I get 4000p/r or 16000c/r.
Quote from: Chris_Beeves on January 17, 2022, 08:28:07 PMThe hoverboard motors are excellent, but you will need a better motor driver. The BTS is a H-bridge, you will need a BLDC driver with encoder support. Something like the VESC or similar.
600p/r is on the low side, but you can always use a gear ratio. I use my 2000p/r encoders 1:2 so I get 4000p/r or 16000c/r
Righto, i'll look into it, Cheers Chris.
And H', i think my brakes came from the petrolscooter dudes. Now my new chip shop has opened and the prices they charge, my brakes were almost literally 'as cheap as chips'. ;D ;D ;D
Where does the time go? So, ive been busy with life so i havnt gotten too far yet.
What has been done is the Blade frame has had its trick cerekote coating. Its way over the top but was abit of a test for both me and my sprayer mate. Its basically a very thin coating that is supposed to be harder than anodising and comes in many colours. Some variants can even coat directly on to exhausts that actually glow white hot and still the coating looks good on cooling. Its awsome gear.
https://www.cerakote.com/shop if anyone is interested.
It turns out my Blade footrest hangers were just some bits of ali' that the previous owner had thrown on so i've drilled a few 'go faster' holes and cleaned them up before coating. I also knocked up a brake and gear lever from some scrap. Ebay brakes and footpegs have finished that area now they are mounted.
After new headstock bearings, the nicely coated bars, clamps and short fork legs are on along with a homemade fork clamp bracket to attach the ffb.
The front brakes are on and after abit of fiddling with rubber density's the hydraulic brakes feel great and the load sensors work fine on the Ardiuno.
I finally got the tank to fit somewhere near and filled both the tank and the tail piece. No paint yet but no rush. I did try an expensive carbon wrap on the tank but its just abit too curvey for my skills so i gave up, lol. It did look trick where it was on propery though.
The hoverboard motor for the ffb is mounted in the frame ..... and then it got tricky , lol :(
I have had the motor turning and changing direction with a pot' and a button. Ive still had no joy getting the Arduino to move it and it seems ive got the crapiest of crappy bldc driver boards..... and im hoping this is where Chris jumps in and saves me buying more things that wont work, :)
Ive read so much, got busy elsewhere, read more and basically gotten totaly lost with all the combinations of driver boards, mcu's and software.
Chris, could you possibly tell me your combination that works please?. Or im about to go back to normal motors, lol.
Cheers,
S.
excellent project keep us all posted on how its going
I'm currently trying to figure that out myself. I'm using b-g432-esc1 units from stm. They work great, but I have no control of the firmware for them, so encoder and voltage is set..
Just bought a frsky odesc that broke unpacking it. I'll let you know how it goes.
Tried with a Vesc 4.12 too but couldn't get the encoder working on it, I don't suggest using that.
I am very much in the process of getting it running in a better way so I'll keep you posted.
Cheap drivers won't work..
Quote from: pikey on April 14, 2022, 01:20:30 PMexcellent project keep us all posted on how its going
Cheers pikey. It might take a while as ive got alot of life going on, including moving house soon ::) but i'll update when theres progress.
Quote from: Chris_Beeves on April 14, 2022, 04:22:58 PMI'm currently trying to figure that out myself. I'm using b-g432-esc1 units from stm. They work great, but I have no control of the firmware for them, so encoder and voltage is set..
Just bought a frsky odesc that broke unpacking it. I'll let you know how it goes.
Tried with a Vesc 4.12 too but couldn't get the encoder working on it, I don't suggest using that.
I am very much in the process of getting it running in a better way so I'll keep you posted.
Cheap drivers won't work..
Chris, i thought you were happy with your M302? Has it all gone wrong? :(
Cheers,
S.
I am super happy with it! But building an M303 for the motion rig and want to explore other motor drivers to get more control of parameters. As it is now, if the new motor doesn't have the exact same characteristics it will be a little less precise.
Hi Folks, Im back. Ive been busy with life and had no time for this stuff, much to my annoyance everytime i see the new shoulder cam footage on Motogp :) On the bright side, ive been to watch the GP's at Assen,Sachsenring and Silverstone, yay. (it wasnt yay with the hangovers though, lol)
So Chris, did you try any other brushless motor drivers yet? anything to recomend as ive got to get this project moving. Loving your rig too, its coming along nicely dude. :)
S.
Hey man, we missed you! :)
Yeah, I bought an ODrive single channel chinese clone and flashed it with a firmware a guy at xsimulator.net has made.
It is pretty close to perfect. Hasn't failed once and is silent and strong. The only downside is that the guy has a license function in it, so in order for my encoders to work he has to send me one for each unit i make. So far I just made the handlebars and my car sim wheelbase, but still it's less than ideal to have to depend on someone.
Thanks! I'm really enjoying testing stuff..
Quote from: Chris_Beeves on October 18, 2022, 08:13:26 PMHey man, we missed you! :)
Yeah, I bought an ODrive single channel chinese clone and flashed it with a firmware a guy at xsimulator.net has made.
It is pretty close to perfect. Hasn't failed once and is silent and strong. The only downside is that the guy has a license function in it, so in order for my encoders to work he has to send me one for each unit i make. So far I just made the handlebars and my car sim wheelbase, but still it's less than ideal to have to depend on someone.
Thanks! I'm really enjoying testing stuff..
Cheers Chris, i'll get one ordered. :D
Hey man!
How are things going with this?