Just messed around and noticed that Max:s plugin now has a helmet-lean option. What the hell I thought, lets give it a go! So I tried the different settings and it mostly felt weird, but then I thought, wait a minute, I have zero tilt in-game, So I decided to play with that as well. In the end I settled for 20 on helmet lean and 20 on in-game tilt... and holy crap! The immersion was fantastic, so much so that I started to feel like puking... guess too much of the good stuff really can be TOO much of the good stuff... :P
Cheers,
/David "Gonzo" Boda #46
Credit to doubledragoncc for requesting the feature: I was sceptical, but have to admit it can look good.
I should find a better texture: if you look carefully part of the helmet interior is nice, part is just flat black (the part that appears when the helmet rotates).
thanks so much !!
those settings are amazing
been riding with 10 tilt and no helmet rotation because honestly i didnt really understand it's purpose .... until now :D
If you guys that use the helmet rotation can post a video plus your settings (tilt in GPB, helmet rotation, helmet rotation reverse or not, screen size and aspect) I'm interested, just to see if there are things to improve/missing.
Quote from: HornetMaX on June 03, 2016, 06:35:56 AM
If you guys that use the helmet rotation can post a video plus your settings (tilt in GPB, helmet rotation, helmet rotation reverse or not, screen size and aspect) I'm interested, just to see if there are things to improve/missing.
No prob. Will do it later today.
since i discovered this new feature, i can say it's improved my first-person view riding abilities dramatically.
i don't know what it is exactly about this that causes it, but i just feel a bit more 'spatially aware' of myself in relation to the bike, and the bike in relation to the track... the end result being a lot more 'natural' feel to riding in FPV than before. big thumbs up! 8)
Quote from: CapeDoctor on June 03, 2016, 10:56:15 AM
since i discovered this new feature, i can say it's improved my first-person view riding abilities dramatically.
i don't know what it is exactly about this that causes it, but i just feel a bit more 'spatially aware' of myself in relation to the bike, and the bike in relation to the track... the end result being a lot more 'natural' feel to riding in FPV than before. big thumbs up! 8)
I can speculate the following:
- If you use 1st person view and no tilt in gpb (tilt = 0), then you have the horrible impression of the bike "swinging" under you, bad.
- Once you allow GPB some tilt (100% being surely too much, as in reality your head moves to compensate the bike lean) things gets better but you still have a problem: your screen (including the helmet overlay) doesn't move. This is visually bad, as it is conflicting with the other visual info you get (swinging horizon and bike).
- Finally, if you allow some GPB tilt and some helmet tilt, your screen will still be not moving of course, but the fact the helmet overlay swings makes the "vision area" (what you see through the helmet visor) swing. And that seems to be what makes the difference.
interesting.
it's definitely much easier to hit my preferred line now.
Helmet tilt?? :o nice! Will try.. Thnx
@Max, are you going to add REVERSE rotation bro?
DD
Seems like it's in reverse now no? Compared to horizon line - bike leans left, helmet goes right.
But it is wrong for me as I am leaning and dont sit still like everyone else. It is wrong for me I am awkward lol.
DD
Quote from: doubledragoncc on June 03, 2016, 03:41:01 PM
@Max, are you going to add REVERSE rotation bro?
Yes, I've already done it, it will be in the next release.
Quote from: teeds on June 03, 2016, 05:09:24 PM
Seems like it's in reverse now no? Compared to horizon line - bike leans left, helmet goes right.
Because that's what happens in real life: you try to keep your head level with the horizon, no matter the bike's lean.
Cool Max thanks buddy
But because nobody leans, Max's normal rotation is fine but because I lean it over exagerates it for me.
DD
Quote from: doubledragoncc on June 03, 2016, 06:45:45 PM
But because nobody leans, Max's normal rotation is fine but because I lean it over exagerates it for me.
Yeah I know dd, the reverse thing may be of interest for you because you actually lean while playing. That's why I did it :)
Here is an ok lap at Catalunya with the M1.
FOV 90°, Pitch 50%, Tilt 20%, no corner anticipation, helmet rot 20%, 3 top/bottom offset
https://www.youtube.com/v/qUjCH43-9qM
Does it tilt the other way if you want it too?
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on June 03, 2016, 07:13:50 PM
Does it tilt the other way if you want it too?
Not yet, but it's already done, will be in the next release.
Quote from: vin97 on June 03, 2016, 07:08:03 PM
Here is an ok lap at Catalunya with the M1.
FOV 90°, Pitch 50%, Tilt 20%, no corner anticipation, helmet rot 20%, 3 top/bottom offset
https://www.youtube.com/v/qUjCH43-9qM
I can not understand how people prefer 3rd person view over this..
::) de gustibus, I like both views, but are very different , a more "game" and one more "real". But both are fun. :D
@vin: it looks pretty nice. The only thing I want to work on is the following: when the helmet rotation is exactly as the same value as the GPB tilt (like in your case, 20% for both) the helmet will always be "aligned" to the horizon. This is not ideal as in reality you do compensate, but not fully and not perfectly. 2 ways to improve:
- Easy one: set the helmet rot at a lower value then the tilt. Example: 50% tilt, 25% rot ==> when you're leaning 40deg, the horizon will be at 20deg (50% of 40deg) but the helmet will rotate only 10deg (25% of 40deg). I just ned to add more settings for the helmet rot (e.g every 5deg) and then it's up to you to configure it as you want.
- More complex one: introduce some sort of helmet dynamics, as if the link between the helmet and the horizon was not "rigid" but "elastic" (like a spring plus damper).
The helmet texture It would be to change, removing the lights effect. I saw that you can change the visor color, so if I'm not mistaken you can create a distortion effect with PS and apply it to the image. :P
Quote from: Blackheart on June 03, 2016, 07:44:00 PM
The helmet texture It would be to change, removing the lights effect. I saw that you can change the visor color, so if I'm not mistaken you can create a distortion effect with PS and apply it to the image. :P
I haven't understood a single word of that ???
What lights effects ?! There's no light effect in the helmet thing, it's just two sprites put on screen.
Apply a static distortion to what ?
never mind ... when I have time I do. ::)
Quote from: HornetMaX on June 03, 2016, 07:39:32 PM
@vin: it looks pretty nice. The only thing I want to work on is the following: when the helmet rotation is exactly as the same value as the GPB tilt (like in your case, 20% for both) the helmet will always be "aligned" to the horizon. This is not ideal as in reality you do compensate, but not fully and not perfectly. 2 ways to improve:
- Easy one: set the helmet rot at a lower value then the tilt. Example: 50% tilt, 25% rot ==> when you're leaning 40deg, the horizon will be at 20deg (50% of 40deg) but the helmet will rotate only 10deg (25% of 40deg). I just ned to add more settings for the helmet rot (e.g every 5deg) and then it's up to you to configure it as you want.
- More complex one: introduce some sort of helmet dynamics, as if the link between the helmet and the horizon was not "rigid" but "elastic" (like a spring plus damper).
Nice one MaX! Dynamic Lid 8) both good options tho lol Dynamic Lid sounds interesting..
Now I see there is not even the blur effect in the helmet texture... just apply a filter is not hard :-\
(http://img.gizmag.com/nuviz-11.jpg?auto=format%2Ccompress&ch=Width%2CDPR&crop=entropy&fit=crop&h=394&q=60&w=700&s=01fce53f87710185c852ad646a257898)
Tried 30% tilt with 20% helmet rot and while it's of course more realistic it's harder for me and less comfortable.
anyway, short clip from practice with teeds (same settings as before) :D
https://www.youtube.com/v/IwUGG42pZhk
Quote from: Blackheart on June 03, 2016, 08:12:18 PM
Now I see there is not even the blur effect in the helmet texture... just apply a filter is not hard :-\
(http://img.gizmag.com/nuviz-11.jpg?auto=format%2Ccompress&ch=Width%2CDPR&crop=entropy&fit=crop&h=394&q=60&w=700&s=01fce53f87710185c852ad646a257898)
Because you think that that specific "model" is any better ?! If you ask me, it is far worse. It's flat (!!) and the blur makes little sense, because when with the eyes I watch the helmet I want no blur while when I watch the track I'm naturally focusing away from the lid, so the blurring happens naturally. It looks like a milestone games: DOF is overdone by a mile and a half.
For the record, the helmet images that I use are not made by me but by Juju (who since left the forum), somebody that is far more competent than me (that's easy) and you combined, in everything that deals with 3d, images, photography , cinematography and so on. So yeah, your rolling the eyes every two comments is getting boring. Quickly.
Anyway, if you prefer your lid (thing that is totally legitimate) you just have to swap the two .tga files that come with the plugin with whatever you like most. You didn't know that ? I guess it's my turn to ::)
Quote from: vin97 on June 03, 2016, 09:01:14 PM
anyway, short clip from practice with teeds (same settings as before) :D
Do I see a bug in the radar ? You have a single bike in front of you and
both left and right warning indicators are on ?! :o will have to take a look.
Something like that is more realistic, no strange static lights (was a Milestone game?) and
higher blur.
(http://s33.postimg.org/kaj6nd8kr/Prova_casco.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/kaj6nd8kr/)
Eyes focus only a small part of what they see.
P.S. ::)
Quote from: Blackheart on June 03, 2016, 09:52:48 PM
Something like that is more realistic, no strange static lights (was a Milestone game?) and
higher blur.
(http://s33.postimg.org/kaj6nd8kr/Prova_casco.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/kaj6nd8kr/)
You think it's more realistic, I don't. But again, you're free to use your one, for yourself. That's why I made the .tga swappable.
Static light: is it dynamic in yours ? No, it's absent.
They are both simple textures, none of them has (or can have) anything dynamic.
Quote from: Blackheart on June 03, 2016, 09:52:48 PM
Eyes focus only a small part of what they see.
That's why with my one (that is not burred) when I focus on the track I get some blurring naturally, without the need to blur the texture.
In reality, what happens when I focus my eyes on the helmet interior ? Do I see it blurred ? Nope.
JC has simply forgot to remove the "shadows and highlights" from the screenshot. Probably in the game were dynamic lights or not, but the effect is completely unreal.
And definitely I do not want to offend the JC work.
https://www.rfactorcentral.com/screenies.cfm?ID=Bruces+Animated+Helmet+Cam+Views+# (https://www.rfactorcentral.com/screenies.cfm?ID=Bruces+Animated+Helmet+Cam+Views+#)
It was Juju and not JC.
The effect is unreal because we have no 3d model of the helmet interior. So having some fixed light or no light at all (on the texture) won't change that.
I don't know how rfactor does this, but if they have dynamic light on the helmet interior, most likely they have a 3d model of the helmet interior. And we don't.
BTW, in most of the screenshots you link I see very little to no blur.
juju ops my fail :P
rfactor as gpb is based on modding, so I have no idea of the true source of this image.
FOV 90°, Pitch 50%, Tilt 20%, 100% anticipation, helmet rot 20%, 3 top / 7 bottom offset
Sorry for the late update Max, and for my riding :). My conclusion, maybe it would be possible to have smaller intervalls for the helmet rotation as I find that it is a bit to much with 20%. So maybe 5,10,15, 20 and so on? I also tried a higher tilt value but that I found that everything over 20 was to extrem, for me at least.
And thanks again for all your work!
Cheers,
David "Gonzo" Boda #46
http://www.youtube.com/v/hzjkXtE_6do
100% corner anticipation, now I understand why you wanted to puke :D :D
Looks pretty cool, though.
Anyway, just wanted to say that you got some (increasing) audio delay (probably due to a framerate conversion that didn't stretch the audio accordingly)
Quote from: vin97 on June 07, 2016, 03:24:23 AM
100% corner anticipation, now I understand why you wanted to puke :D :D
Looks pretty cool, though.
Anyway, just wanted to say that you got some (increasing) audio delay (probably due to a framerate conversion that didn't stretch the audio accordingly)
Thanks, will look into it.
Cheers,
/David
Looks much better with corner anticipation.. Onboard looks Sh!t without corner Ant.. imo. but makes me want to puke too.. ;D i think its down to how the riders head snaps back inline with the bike when we get on the throttle.. makes me dizzy.
I like the helmet lean idea but for me personally i would like it to tilt the other way slightly.. not much tho.. still nice to have adjustment for personal style.. Look at Tom sykes's riding style and head position ;)
sure looks nice Gonzo!
And Bob, love Tom Sykes way to ride that Kawasaki! I was a bit more oldschool in my riding style and head position ;)
Quote from: Meyer#12 on June 07, 2016, 06:47:47 PM
sure looks nice Gonzo!
And Bob, love Tom Sykes way to ride that Kawasaki! I was a bit more oldschool in my riding style and head position ;)
yeah sykes is awesome! ;D he just looks angry 8) yeah lots of different styles, sykes and jonny rae that's a good comparison too! MaX said he gonna add the adjustment in next release i think? happy days.
Quote from: BOBR6 84 on June 07, 2016, 09:01:09 PM
MaX said he gonna add the adjustment in next release i think? happy days.
Yep, reverse helmet rotation option will be in the next release.
Really looking forward to that Max.
I dont understand why you are all literally breaking your necks in the helmets and liking the pain? Bloody masochists lol. Study the actual neck angle in the vids lol
DD
to quote your own words DD, because it feels right :D
can't explain it but riding onboard simply works best for me with those settings.
Dude I was kinda joking as the angle is gonna hurt lol.
I hear you about it feeling right vin.
DD
Hello guys !
I'm a begginer on GPB and after 2 weeks using only 3rd p view because I was uncomfortable with the 1st P one, I just discovered Max plugin.
It's awesome !!!
But !! I will continue to use 3rd P view for a while because 1st P gives me headaches and illness. Why it is so shaaaaaAaAaAaAaAaakKkKkKkKkKkKyyyyYyYyYyYyYyY ??
Is there any option to lower or suppress head bobbing ?? I know someone here already talked about that. The fact that irl the body and the brain compensate vibrations and shaking.
And He is completly right. For me, 1stP view is unusable. I must stop after 10 min of riding. My eyes and my brain are hurting. :( :( :(
V
don't use corner anticipation and maybe try using manual rider lean.
Thanks Vin,
But This is not my problem. The "shaking" is when I shift up, down or when I take a bump on the road. It's shaking from left to right. It is really "head bobbing".
Aside that, I found quite good setings after I red all of your posts on differents sections. It is really good with GP 2015 bikes on soft and clean tracks. But I tested the NR 750 on Ulster GP. It was awfull :/
have you tried manual rider lean?
the "head bobbing" you are describing sounds like the automatic rider movements to me (left/right when the lean angle changes and up/down when the throttle input changes).
I'm talking about that shaking
https://youtu.be/z1QUZnVtdUA?t=26
? Why post an old video of a my mod? i think is a version 0.3 or 0.4 wtf ???
P.S. There are no problems with the NR750 on Ulster GP track:
https://www.youtube.com/v/elZeP2F8nrc
Blackheart. This has nothing to do with the NR 750, This is an awesome mod ;) I just took the first video I found in 1st person to struts my purpose.
It is clear that in your video, The camera is really steady. But If you watch from 1'11. You can see what I am talking about. Each time to shift up, there is a little vibration shaking the camera from left to right. For me, this shaking is way much pronnounced and occurs more often. Like every 10 seconds and last more than on your video. I have the latest version of the mods.
edit : after rewatching your video. I think my vibrations are quite the same indeed. But the fact that it is on full screen when I play made me think there was more vibration for me.
Anyway, those "little" shaking from left to right make me feel dizzy very quickly...
well, that's just the bike becoming a bit unstable, nothing you can do about that.
Yes Vin ! That's why I asked if there is an option for this. It's like the helmet was welded on the bike tank, retransmitting any movement or vibration of the bike to the rider's head. :( :(
which first person cam are you using?
there's one that is fixed to the bike and one that's fixed to the rider.
Quote from: tchemi on July 01, 2016, 06:10:26 PM
I know someone here already talked about that. The fact that irl the body and the brain compensate vibrations and shaking.
And He is completly right.
I think that was me ;)
I feel the same as you, but im used to the 1p view and don't get that sick feeling. My problem is more oriented to be accurate on corner lines when the bike is moving like that.
Quote from: vin97 on July 01, 2016, 08:10:59 PM
which first person cam are you using?
there's one that is fixed to the bike and one that's fixed to the rider.
I use the helmet one and get more or less the same, is like the helmet is fixed to the bike, instead of a human flexible neck/torso.
The tank camera is worse indeed
You can try to lower the tilt too (not sure what value you have right now).
Yes , that could be a big factor to get sick.