[BIKE] KTM RC8R *PHYSICS UPDATE*

[girlracerTracey]

Well, clearly this bike does have some instant appeal to a number of us. A bike simulation should and must incorporate an ability to rear wheel steer to a realistic and sensible degree. It should be difficult and very challenging to rear wheel steer and there should always be the imminent threat of a high-side lurking if you overdo it. And no I am not talking about monster 75 ft slides..I am talking about rear wheel steering as witnessed and employed by riders in real life racing all the time. It's part and parcel of the technique required in taking a racing motorcycle round a track competitively. Not every bend and not necessarily every lap. But the phenomenon of rear wheel steering should be there to tap into and use at your peril and to your advantage whilst racing. In my honest opinion. It should be initiated by throttle control. Not by throttle control necessarily combined with an excess requirement in having to load up the rear end with excessive "momentum" across the track surface and/or across a track surface that is comprised of imperfections and/or undulations.  Although obviously such track characteristics do provide an additional "catalyst" in encouraging and/or increasing the intensity of slides. But throttle should be "King" in this. As we all know..

As I say I think this is a very interesting "experiment" in modifying the physics Rodney. None of us want arcade style handling traits. I would pack up on gpbikes tomorrow if that was the case. No thank you very much! That is not why any of us are here. But if this is explored carefully and sensibly and the end result remains very challenging and true to real life then this has to be, in my opinion, a step in the right direction. I want this to be difficult enough so that not everybody accessing gpbikes will be able to rear wheel steer. Just like real life. I do not want it to be like motogp14!

Also I am mindful in this that this is quite a departure for gpbikes. Not everyone is going to fall off their chair(s) whilst shouting positive expletives. Everyone's opinion counts in this. And Max's concerns and opinions with this should also be listened to.. At the end of the day, however, it is a sympathetic ear from PiBoSo and his development team that is required here. It's their baby so to speak. It is them who need to be convinced of the merits of this.

But having said all that..I like the effect very much Rodney.

grT 

P.S. how do you do that Klax? Amazing.

[HornetMaX]

Anything I change to you is "suspect".

It may be true most of the times, but in this specific case it is not: if you had the knowledge of what you have done on the tires and if you were able to understand what I've explained about a potential tire model issue a while ago (http://forum.piboso.com/index.php?topic=1320.msg17177#msg17177), you would realize that (part of) your change goes in the direction I was mentioning.

Also I am mindful in this that this is quite a departure for gpbikes. Not everyone is going to fall off their chair(s) whilst shouting positive expletives. Everyone's opinion counts in this. And Max's concerns and opinions with this should also be listened to.. At the end of the day, however, it is a sympathetic ear from PiBoSo and his development team that is required here.

I'm only making comments, I'm in no way asking rodney to change his creation, he can do whatever he wants, as any other modder. As said by Alby (in a very polite manner, surely more polite than the reply he got back), the ones that do not like the end result will just not use the bike.

But as the idea was for the modders to gather feedback, feedback has been provided. Some very positive, some less, some very negative.

Concerning the "sympathetic ear from PiBoSo", I may disagree with him on some aspects, but the one principle he has on top of his list and on which I totally agree is: GPB is a simulator, it tries (as much as possible) to be true to physics ad real life. If something is wrongly simulated, he tries to fix the simulator, not to tweak some value just because the end result feels great (to some). And I (and others) thanks him daily for that.

MaX.

[rodney007]

In the above, alpha is the sideslip angle of the tire while gamma is the camber angle. What the above means is that when both alpha and gamma are large, the formula used may underestimate the lateral force the tire generates. In practice, on a turn with the bike leaning significantly and the front tire "not pointing in the direction of motion" (i.e. significant sideslip angle), the front tire could generate less lateral force than it should.

[camillozockt]

FIRST POST UPDATED

[JJS209]

to the physics update:
the game crashes every time i crash with the new physicfiles.

and i have a question:
y is the geom file from murra 990?

[camillozockt]

We were afraid of this, File updated, shouldn't crash now - Check Victoria

[rodney007]

to the physics update:
the game crashes every time i crash with the new physicfiles.

and i have a question:
y is the geom file from murra 990?

Hi,

Its the base file, most values have been changed only need to ignore the name. 

Is the game still crashing? We think it was due to the increased steering damper force. The games core.exe is very fustrating

[girlracerTracey]

In truth I couldn't agree more Bob. 

grT

[JJS209]

i did a few laps on laguna seca and it feels great, subjective better than before.
no crashes anymore.

€: i made the front little bit harder (27 N/m and 169 ml oil i think) to be able to break full with 18mm frontbreak
and i think its not anymore that easy to slide it  on cornerexit with the throttle.

[rodney007]

i did a few laps on laguna seca and it feels great, subjective better than before.
no crashes anymore.

€: i made the front little bit harder (27 N/m and 169 ml oil i think) to be able to break full with 18mm frontbreak
and i think its not anymore that easy to slide it  on cornerexit with the throttle.

Thanks for your feedback, is the rear end still giving you the same feedback?

This is open forum and is to be improved so any considerations will be taken on board.

[camillozockt]

Rodney007 had made an error in the Soft rear tyre and this is now fixed.

Please re-download the file if you already had it.

[camillozockt]

i did a few laps on laguna seca and it feels great, subjective better than before.
no crashes anymore.

€: i made the front little bit harder (27 N/m and 169 ml oil i think) to be able to break full with 18mm frontbreak
and i think its not anymore that easy to slide it  on cornerexit with the throttle.

It should feel better now.

[JJS209]

camillo are u able to setup a server with actual ktm release? laguna or maybe spa?

[Vini]

Anyway, the new physics is a lot better.
The feel for the rear under acceleration (especially on qualify tyres) is better and the new tyre wear simulation is very realistic. If you want to run soft tyres in a race you could quite possibly have to manage the amount of powerslides to finish the race, I like that!
The braking is awesome now. The feel for the front is improved, yes, but I think the main reason for the improvement is the engine braking which has been reduced or made better to control by the better rear wheel feel.
The wobbles are completely gone now 

[girlracerTracey]

Thanks for the feedback Vin. I'm off to try it properly for myself right now. 

grT