GP Bikes beta5b

[BOBR6 84]

Watch my little video.. Shit lap as stated but from what I see watching it again is eye candy and...

potential!!

Way I see it.. Its turned down the right path, needs some tweeks, yes..

All in all the feeling im getting from beta5b is great and natural!

I picked up straight away that you have to think about throttle control a bit more.. Rolling off a touch here and there.. Beta4 was full throttle most of the time..

The front end ''issues'' resemble to me a race bike without a steering damper.. Which it DOES NOT HAVE!

be great if there was a couple more options regarding the wheelbase too.

I have to say though im really impressed so far.. Call me a brown noser I couldnt care less lol.

I know what I see/feel but I also see the bigger picture here..

[girlracerTracey]

The front end ''issues'' resemble to me a race bike without a steering damper.. Which it DOES NOT HAVE!

I would tend to agree with that.

I am off to test anyway.. one thing this has done is to get me off motogp14 on PS4..lol..which is a very positive development in some quarters I suspect. 

grT

[Klax75]

I'm getting data mismatch when trying to go online. I don't have any MOD Bikes installed. Not sure why. Or I am getting the "Connected" but nothing ever happens.

[HornetMaX]

Also me and stout noticed that the gearbox on the 990 feels MotoGP unworthy. Downshifting goes about as fast as an old Daf truck,

I noticed that on the 990, even with no shift help, when you downshift it blips the throttle (just stand still, push the clutch, gear up to 6th and then down, at each gear down you hear the RPMs blip a bit). Doesn't do it on the 500 (which is not surprising).

EDIT: forgot to mention, with the reduction of the DisenageMaxTorque (150 --> 100 from beta 4 to beta 5/5b for the 990) it is normal that you can't slam the gears in as fast as before (while downshifting, because when upshifting the shifter still cuts so there's no problem). Maybe the auto-throttle blip must be retuned accordingly ...

Anyway about the gearbox, I'm still surprised we can downshift without using the clutch ... clutchless downshifting is very very recent in MotoGP as far as I know (http://www.thrillspeed.com/2014-motogp-preview/).

and even at low speeds you will sometimes lock up the rear when shifting from 3rd to 2nd or 1st. I`m quite convinced a MotoGP grade slipperclutch would never allow for anything to lock up....ever. Yes not even in 2003...

I'm not so sure about that (the "ever" part): a real slipper clutch is tunable, in GPB it is, but only "internally" (by the modders), not in the garage.
Maybe having it tunable in the garage could help.

At any rate it's not because you have a slipper clutch that you can downshift like a dirty pig, you can ask Desteban: he races an R6 that has much much less engine brake than a motogp, but
slipper clutch or not, you downshift carefully, even 4th to 3rd otherwise your rear will slide (lock is technically incorrect and you know I hate when you do this Jamoz ).

The front end ''issues'' resemble to me a race bike without a steering damper.. Which it DOES NOT HAVE!

It has a steering damper. In fact one may even consider it has two steering dampers (a classic one and one that is part of the virtual rider).
You don't see it in the garage (hence you can't tune it), but it is there.
And more damping would be good (likely) for the low speed wobble but bad (likely) for the high speed weave.

MaX.

[Hawk]

I'm getting data mismatch when trying to go online. I don't have any MOD Bikes installed. Not sure why. Or I am getting the "Connected" but nothing ever happens.

Just been riding online myself testing the verase out on Victoria. No problems for me.

Hawk.

[girlracerTracey]

Well guys I switched to my xbox one gamepad and tried out beta 5b once again. By the way I turned direct lean OFF.

It has transformed beta 5b for me. It now makes one heck of a lot more sense. You can now ride this thing with direct lean off with a joypad controller. The bike now turns in and steers..much to my surprise.

So with my steering wheel set-up with direct lean on I have major issues. With my xbox one joppad plugged in and direct lean off it works! On the basis of this set-up I like beta 5b quite a lot!

Just thought I had better let you know.

I'm off to bed now. But what a pleasant surprise. 

grT

P.S. I'm also getting a few rear wheel powerslides round Silverstone on the varese 500..

[JamoZ]

At any rate it's not because you have a slipper clutch that you can downshift like a dirty pig, you can ask Desteban: he races an R6 that has much much less engine brake than a motogp, but

MaX.

I never downshift like a dirty pig, if i would do i wouldn`t complain about the slipper clutch because then it would be something on my end, and now the rear just "locks" ( ) up randomly even when taking it easy on the gearbox & rpm`s...just sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn`t....

And with all due respect towards Desteban & his R6, but i doubt that even a 2014 track R6 would have a slipper clutch as technologically advanced as the MotoGP machines would have back in 2003. That was the season the teams were experimenting with the most exotic engines & materials.

[HornetMaX]

I never downshift like a dirty pig, if i would do i wouldn`t complain about the slipper clutch because then it would be something on my end, and now the rear just "locks" ( ) up randomly even when taking it easy on the gearbox & rpm`s...just sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn`t....

For the same kind of downshft (comparable RPMs and bike speed) it may lock ( ) or not depending on how loaded the rear is: more rear load, less chances to lock.
So if you downshift early (with respect to when you brake with the front brake), it will lock less, but if you do the opposite (front brake a lot, then downshift) and your rear light, you'll lock it.

And with all due respect towards Desteban & his R6, but i doubt that even a 2014 track R6 would have a slipper clutch as technologically advanced as the MotoGP machines would have back in 2003. That was the season the teams were experimenting with the most exotic engines & materials.

Oh you know, a slipper clutch is not a very complex piece of equipment. It's a bit hard to tune and to get to work properly (Yam had issues during their 1st season) but after that ...
On motogp bikes a lot of work is done by the electronics (and that I do agree, is far more advanced on a motogp than on any street bike).

MaX.

P.S.
Read my EDIT above (added later): the fact right now you have to downshift slower than before is explained. Not arguing it should stay or not like that, just pointing this out.

[JamoZ]

The gearbox is too slow as it is anyways. Of course they didn`t have a seamless gearbox back then, but listning to some onboard footage up & downshifting seemed to be alot quicker on the real RCV from 2003 then our 990 ingame. We lose about 1000 rpm when upshifting? Would be interesting to know what the real bikes did back then. I couldn`t find any footage with a dash onscreen or whatever...

[HornetMaX]

Seamless is not the same thing as clutchless downshift, but here too the terminology is a bit of a mess: some are using "seamless downshift" for "clutchless downshift" and it's just confusing IMO.

Anyway I personally didin't find the downshift of beta4 too slow, but in beta5/5b I expect it to be slower than beta4, so I may well agree that in beta5/5b it could be too slow (haven't tried enough yet).

The RPM you lose upshifting depend on the gear ratios (luckily !): I don't understand, what do you want to verify ?

MaX.

[Hawk]

My initial impressions of Beta 5b after testing the 500cc Verase on Victoria:

• The front end is still as unstable as ever it was in Beta 5, same problem as was in Beta 4b but far, far worse now.
• Probably a tendency for the front end to wheelie to much or too easily through most gears; lower gears I can understand, but once you hit the higher gears like 5th and 6th gears I don't think it should wheelie that easily.
• The rider view in Helmet view(Cockpit View) is still not tucking down onto the tank as much as he should(like in Beta 4b), maybe due to new rider model being implemented and not set-up correctly as yet? 
• Throttle control is now needed to control the bike which is a great improvement on beta 4b.
• The tank slappers on corner exits and on sudden direction changes have been calmed down a degree though I didn't think it was too much of a problem in beta 5. Good throttle control does help a lot with this.
• Not sure if the tyre ratio thing(can't remember it's proper definition.  ) is quite tweaked properly for the 500cc bike? I can only take Victoria as an example, but in certain turns the revs seems to increase far too much and likewise when I upright the bike the revs seem to slow down far too much, almost as if I've slammed the rear brake on without rear wheel lockup if you understand what I mean?
• But overall I think it is a great step forward, though the problem with the front end instability is a big issue and in my opinion needs sorting out as a high priority as that problem will mean no online races for me personally(Hoorray! I hear you shouting. Hehe  ), I put up with this issue in beta 4b, but this is such a big issue now, even on good track surfaces. It is the one thing that is a HUGE step backwards in total contrast to the other additions and improvements made.

These are just my initial thoughts after an initial test on beta 5b.

Hawk.

[JamoZ]

Seamless is not the same thing as clutchless downshift, but here too the terminology is a bit of a mess: some are using "seamless downshift" for "clutchless downshift" and it's just confusing IMO.

Anyway I personally didin't find the downshift of beta4 too slow, but in beta5/5b I expect it to be slower than beta4, so I may well agree that in beta5/5b it could be too slow (haven't tried enough yet).

The RPM you lose upshifting depend on the gear ratios (luckily !): I don't understand, what do you want to verify ?

MaX.

The term seamless is only used when talking about upshifting right? I can`t imagine being able to downshift seamlessly (is that even a word? ) so that would be clutchless?

Is the RPM loss purely determined by the ratios? Not also by the electronics?

[Daniel_F]

ok with more news from me ( sorry to be boring) so i changed to full tank hard tyres and the front improved a lot right now can do a lot better lap times with race setup then qual setup ill post a video with hard tyres and then qual ones

PS: ill take a pic of my setup so u guys can try and give me feedback

[HornetMaX]

The term seamless is only used when talking about upshifting right? I can`t imagine being able to downshift seamlessly (is that even a word? ) so that would be clutchless?

Seamles in the origin was for upshifting only, indicating upshifting with no interruption of transmitted torque (engine --> rear wheel).
A normal shifter (available even for road bikes) allows you to upshift with no clutch, but to do so it cuts the injection for a short time, interrupting torque transmission (actually, generation).
A seamless gearbox doesn't do this: you upshift (with no clutch) but the torque is not cut at all (practically). So it's damn quick and the bike does not jerk (as response to torque being cut and then restored).

Honda has something that allows you to downshift without the clutch (to make it ultra simple, it automatically "blips" the throttle to rev match, but it does it in a very very smart manner, not all the details are even disclosed). I wouldn't call this "seamless downshifting", even if somehow it is true that it allows(almost) to have uninterrupted torque transmission (from the wheel to the engine, this time). But some tech guys and journos are, so it's gonna spread and stick. Anyway, it's very recent, surely not there in 2003 (and surely not there for the varese).

In principle, it is possible to manually do what Honda does automatically (i.e. rev match when downshifting) but in practice is very hard and would be very slow (and risky: you do it wrong too much, gearbox bye bye). Before the honda thing (1-2 years ago) riders were using the clutch to downshift: it's very visible on some onboard videos.

Is the RPM loss purely determined by the ratios? Not also by the electronics?

Ratios only: when you shift (up or down), the bike speed is nearly constant (unless you take too long on the clutch), so the revs after the gear shift depend only on the revs before the gear shift and the ratio between the previous gear and the new one. Only exception: if you shift down and overrev and blow then engine

MaX.

[Daniel_F]

Fuel : 24 L                                         

Tyre : Hard Hard                                 

Front leverage : 20 mm                       

Front Disc : Carbon 314 mm               

Rear leverage : 13 mm                       

Rear Disc : steel 255                           

Mapping : Qual



Front suspension

Spring : 29 n/mm

Bump : 7               

Rebound : 13                 

Preload : 7                     

Oil : 99




Rear Suspension         

Spring : 120 n/mm         

Bump : 9                                               

Rebound : 6                                           

Preload : 7                                           

                 
Drivetrain

Standard


Geom

Rake angle : 25

Swing arm pivot : 0

Swing arm lenght : 2


Pressure

Rear 1.25

Frong 1.25



Eletronic at max all