Looking for a cheap project bike and all i can see is overpriced, rusty, knackered, high mileage rubbish which people seem to think is worth thousands of pounds.
Have i missed something in the last couple of years?
Strangely i could pick up a super sport 600 for a reasonable price, but a low capacity commuter has a joke of an asking price :o ???
Hipsters... ;D Surprisingly you can make a shitty old CB250 into an equally shit but shiny Cafe racer :P
People want a project nowadays then try to sell them for more than they are worth or get halfway through and give up when they realize it actually requires more work than changing rust for shiny parts. You're better off buying a slightly rough bike over a half done strip down, they might seem cheap but it's more hassle than it's worth unless you are a shit hot mechanic :P
go and see how much they ask for rg500 engines.
ridiculous.
Everything in the fucking UK is over priced its fucking shit here to buy anything for bikes. I have to order so much from outside the UK or others have to pay and that puts costs up.
Sometime looking for accident but non right-off bikes that have mainly plastics damage can save a lot if you dont mind using china plastics. Fully painted brand new injection molded CBR600 body kits can be gotten for 300 quid including all fittings and shipping
Guess you just gotta look harder these days
DD
It was actually a crappy cb250 that caused me to crack in the end >:( guy was trying to convince me it was cheap at £800 - possibly one of the worst bikes made (basically an eighties Benley engine) and i have seen better than this one in the breakers in the past.
I was hoping to grab a small capacity bike for zipping around locally as i really cannot be bothered with the speed camera paranoia that comes with my old ZX6 which is apparently basically worthless despite being immaculate and significantly more technically advanced than a CB.
Agreed Vin - anything that's genuinely a bit tasty/collectable can currently only be purchased in Monopoly money.
Ah well, back to surfing Gumtree :(
Cheap and cheerful went out when the current restricted license system came in. No new rider can ride anything with more than 33 or 46 BHP so anything under a 400 is fair game.
Ergo, price goes up.
Just read up on the new licensing - i was wondering why some of the tastier 400's had not gone up like their crappy counterparts. Maybe a late model super four might be an option then, seem cheap for the spec - the lack of a fairing would possibly keep the speed down a bit ;)
In Sweden it's also ridiculous. You can get a decent older car for 2000 pounds but a decent bike, nope. A bloody Ducati Monster 620 ie Dark 03, with nothing special on it, for 4000 pounds... it's a 13 year old bike and there are thousands of them out there... I just don't get it.
Cheers,
/David "Gonzo" Boda #46
Quote from: matty0l215 on August 02, 2016, 08:57:10 PM
Hipsters... ;D Surprisingly you can make a shitty old CB250 into an equally shit but shiny Cafe racer :P
https://rideapart.com/articles/hipsters-vs-real-motorcyclists (https://rideapart.com/articles/hipsters-vs-real-motorcyclists) :)
Yeah true, 5 years ago supersports and superbikes were the biggest markets. Now with the trend to nakeds in general and cafe racers in particular, you have a high demand for those (and the respective prices) whereas the market for full-fairing sportsbikes seems to be almost non-existent. I sold my old CBR 600 RR this year for €1.500 whereas I would have received ~€5.000 five years ago.
Your right Stout, Naked/street bikes are going mental. Sports bike as we know it are dying (In the UK at least and seemingly in Europe)
Mainly because of Euro 4 regulations Manufacturers struggle to make a powerful and nutty sports bike (look what the did to the Panigale!) or the have to make them under powered and quite so they are tree friendly.. >:(
I'm not sure it's due to Euro4 regulations. Sport bikes cost more than roadsters, are less flexible (unless you plan to go a lot on track) and on the road roadsters are just as fun if not more.
Today you have roadsters with 120+ hp, a territory that a few years ago was only for sport bikes.
I meant Sports bikes as we know it. Dedicated sports bikes that aren't 1000cc 200bhp bikes (even they are struggling to get enough bike sold for race holomagation)
For example If Yamaha took the MT-09 took the and did a "sports bike" conversion (clip on's, sporty fairings, different gearing etc), It could be as good as the Street Triple/Daytona cocktail (i know the Daytona came first but you get my point)
There's a lot more to it I know but I just don't like the idea of losing a breed of bikes that have been around since the start. Adapt to survive :P
Well, if Yam did that, the "sport" version of the MT-09 would cost 3,000E more than the roadster, thanks to titanium screws, unobtanium rods and launch control :)
Look at the price difference between a Daytona and a Street. The problem would stay, no ?
You do have 600cc sport bikes today and they spare you some cash compared to their 1000cc sisters ... but a (new) cbr600rr sport costs as much as a (new) cb1000r roadster: unless one plans to do quite some track days, I'd advice the roadster hands down.
If the prices of very low mileage used supersports and superbikes keep falling i think we might just see a revival of the streetfighter theme. Lots of very low mileage 2000 - 2008 bikes at around £1000 -£1500 (asking price) and these bikes are already capable of exceeding most riders abilities on public roads.
My prediction for the next bike hype - a more tasteful take on the streetfighter concept of 10 years ago due to the abundance of material at low cost. A Fireblade based chopper/bobber/tracker would certainly be an 'involving ride' ;) ;D
Trawling through the ads i have seen some dreadful attempts at cafe racers - maybe someone should of explained to the buildrs that they are meant to be rideable when finished - most common failings are no steering lock/room for hands and arms between bars and tank, dreadful riding position, probably allergic to rain due to carb inlets and electrics facing open wheel spray, lots of shiny bits but an engine with interstellar mileage that has not been serviced/rebuilt and i guess the same would be true for driveline, brakes, suspension and steering - not surprising that most are advertised as SORN/no MOT
Still an unusable bike for £3000 - bargain
Quote from: HornetMaX on August 04, 2016, 07:06:41 AM
Well, if Yam did that, the "sport" version of the MT-09 would cost 3,000E more than the roadster, thanks to titanium screws, unobtanium rods and launch control :)
Look at the price difference between a Daytona and a Street. The problem would stay, no ?
You do have 600cc sport bikes today and they spare you some cash compared to their 1000cc sisters ... but a (new) cbr600rr sport costs as much as a (new) cb1000r roadster: unless one plans to do quite some track days, I'd advice the roadster hands down.
I'm not saying the problem would go away. I just don't want to lose the sports bikes :P
I like the engine and power output of the MT-09 (i only use this as an example) but i don't want a roadster. I like my fairings and while im young and can easily, i enjoy the crouched over aproach of sports bikes ;D but me personally, i don't want a 1000cc super bike, they are too impractical for the British road (at least the road i ride most often) anyway if i wanted practical i'd go and get a BMW GS (a real motorcycle ;)) with panniers and wear a polite hi-vis (Brits will understand ;D)
And the without the current stock of super bikes, we lose WSB, BSB etc and we lose the next generation of track bikes
Also Compare the price of used street triples and used daytonas. There are within £500 on average at the bottom end.
As for the next fad, i'm not to sure. Whatever some popular bunch decide is cool :P we still havent seen the end of the hipster bullshit yet ;
Funnily enough we've been doing pretty well with free projects up here the last couple of years. Probably our best run on barn finds ever.
My dad wanted one of the outbuildings cleared so the XJ900 went to one of my mates and the Guzzi (Daytona 1000) to another.
At the end of the year another pal's family is selling their farm. I've got 'till then to get down and lift a Bultaco 250 and a z650. The dirt bike will likely be a group project but the z650 is coming my way. :)
It's pretty clean but of course has been lying for 20+ years - I'm kinda hoping it's rougher than described - then I could go down the custom route without the guilt of hacking up a clean classic. Already have a gixer750 rear end/zx9r front end/blade brakes/etc shopping list all planned out down to the bearing kits and lighting rig. If it turns out to be a spotless example that I decide to keep standard it'll probably still cost as much to fix up and I know a good bit of my riding time will be spent daydreaming about upside downies and brembo radial masters.
Hmmm, starting to sound a bit hipsterish. :-[
Won't be a cafe racer - if that plays in my defence :-\ - geometry and riding position will barely change. Just good tyres, brakes and bouncy bits. :D
Might want to look at what you could get for the z650 before you start - you could probably go on a nice holiday with the proceeds ;)
I have noticed prices become more sane as you travel away from southern England but i think most of the barns and sheds have already been emptied down here as the latest trend seems to be 'barn finds' imported form the US and these are still overpriced crap with no registration docs.
Quote from: h106frp on August 04, 2016, 11:45:55 AM
Might want to look at what you could get for the z650 before you start - you could probably go on a nice holiday with the proceeds ;)
The DT tank, bodywork, airbox and front end will be going on ebay soon. Hoping the proceeds might cover the tyres, oil tanks and other bits and bobs that I still need for the end of the dirtbike build.
Imagine the same could be done with the wee z. If the parts are in decent nick they'll probably sell for more than the (also secondhand) sportbike replacements are costing.
Think it'll be my kind of bike. I'm only a little guy(under 5'10") and most bikes I try are too big for me.
Hence I ride a zxr400sp, which fits great and hits all the right spots when I'm up for fun but there's room in my life for a z650 I reckon. :)
zxr400sp - really nice bike, but when i tried one it felt like a torture rack with the reach to the bars compared to the NC30 :)
I still think the 400's are some of the best A and B road scratching bikes ever made as you really need to make a bit of (rewarding) effort with your corner speed to keep the pace up, too easy to point and squirt with the bigger bikes and if you do make a more committed effort on the larger bikes the speeds start getting a bit silly ;)
There's folk pay good money for that bound&paddled feel down at Madame Spanky's every night of the week. ;) It's not that zxr's are harsh - it's just that wrists and spines aren't tough enough :P (mine included sometimes ::) ).
NC30/35 are the only 400s I'd consider swapping it for. Never tried one but they sure do look the part.
I've ridden a few 600s(sports and road) over the years and they've always felt like what I should be on. They fit ok, are more comfortable, quiet and feel longer lasting.
....so I guess none of those are my major considerations. Over the years I've thought more about stuffing a zx6 engine into the zxr than I've considered changing to a bigger bike.
In company I need to go first to have first dibs on the passing places. The company these days is a gixer thou', a speed triple and a zx7r and the 400 definately feels strained if I'm on the tail of the group.
Up front though - no bother. How fast can you realistically go on the road anyway?
Quote from: matty0l215 on August 04, 2016, 08:12:01 AM
I like the engine and power output of the MT-09 (i only use this as an example) but i don't want a roadster. I like my fairings and while im young and can easily, i enjoy the crouched over aproach of sports bikes ;D
http://www.sportrider.com/yamahas-street-based-fz-07-could-have-potential-race-success-with-specially-designed-track-kit#page-2
CALLED IT!!
sort of :P
For anywhere between 13,500 and 15,000 GBP ... I'd buy a brand new bike :)
Step in the right direction for me ;D
Stick some lights, mirrors etc, make it a mass producible bike (bring the cost down) and I'll be interested :)
A bit of explanation here: http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2016/june/honda-cbr600rr-killed-off/ (http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/2016/june/honda-cbr600rr-killed-off/)
But you still can have an r6, or a cbr650f (on the cheapo side).
It wasn't so much they couldn't meet the standards, more the cost to re-developw the bike which wasn't going to be cost effective. And MCN really jumped the gun when reporting this. (Has Honda confirmed?)
It wasn't so much the cost, it was more the fact that if they sell 150 units per year (in the UK), then ... see the comments from the other makers (including Triumph). A 600 supersport has a limited audience at those prices: you can put a bit more and get a 1000, or put the same price and get a 1000 roadster, or put a lot less and get a 600 roadster/street.
I don't know about other but when i look for a bike (At the moment anyway) I look for a sub 140bhp sport(y) bike that isn't 4 cylinders (I like the different stuff, mainly Italian or British). I can't see a reason for me buying a 1000 yet. It will happen but I am more than happy with my 675 and I don't want more power, nor do i want a roadster.
This is what i want and by no means represents the UK motorcycle industry (every bastard is buying new are getting BMW s100RR or roadsters :P)
So sport(y), no 4cyl, no roadster, no 1000cc ... there's only the 675. As you already have it, you should be already happy :)
[ok ok, there's also some Ducati stuff, "slightly" overpriced though ...]
Quote from: HornetMaX on August 11, 2016, 06:38:57 PM
[ok ok, there's also some Ducati stuff, "slightly" overpriced though ...]
This is the one of the reasons I haven't bought a Ducati (I'd have a 899 in a heartbeat) or a new Daytona (Not enough changed, and can't justify the cost/benefit yet :P) cost ;D
I totally agree. The new emissions standards stuff is just a welcome excuse to dump some models that were not selling well lately anyhow. The time of the superstock bikes has passed, there isn't much of a market anymore for them. Maybe we'll see the R6 for a couple of more years if Yamaha should decide to take the effort to adjust the engine. But most likely not, since I would assume that those 600cc would lose a particularly high percentage of hp with adaption to Euro 4 standards.
But again, for some models it is just a welcome excuse and does make a better explanation marketing-wise than acknowledging that a certain model just was not succesful. For example Aprilia recently announced that they'd dump their V2 Dorseduro models due to probems with adoption to Euro 4. But I think it is a safe bet they would have discontinued those bikes soon anyhow.
@Matty: The new Ducati Supersport could be what you might be looking forward to. From what I hear it should also be relatively reasonably priced (I heard ~12k).
http://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2016/july/ducati-supersport-in-detail/
Well, if some models are not selling enough, one can hardly blame the constructors for dropping them. Nor the euro4 rules.
Quote from: Stout Johnson on August 12, 2016, 07:56:17 AM
@Matty: The new Ducati Supersport could be what you might be looking forward to. From what I hear it should also be relatively reasonably priced (I heard ~12k).
A reasonably priced Ducati would be something never seen in the past 10 years :)
But a more resonable sport bike could be an interesting option.
Oh no, you can't blame a manufacturor for dropping a bike thats not selling, thats business. Euro 4 gave a good reason for them to cut the bikes without uproar.
It would happen eventually anyway.
Another reason for someone like me not having an exotic bike (even if cheap to buy) is insurance. Currently on an 1000cc sport bike it is over £1500 for me to be covered. (£400 on my daytona with an alarm imobislieser) and it doesn't massivly drop if i went to any other type of bike. It's my age and where i live
Quote from: matty0l215 on August 12, 2016, 01:36:12 PM
Another reason for someone like me not having an exotic bike (even if cheap to buy) is insurance. Currently on an 1000cc sport bike it is over £1500 for me to be covered. (£400 on my daytona with an alarm imobislieser) and it doesn't massivly drop if i went to any other type of bike. It's my age and where i live
And the fact the insurance companies know all too well you britons do like road racing :)
More because they are thieving bastards who assume every under 25 year old is out until 1am riding a group, upsetting the locals and stealing other bikes or are with almost certainty going to rap the bike round a tree... but hey-ho :P
Sounds like a normal Friday night for bikers to me Matty lol ;D
DD
Confirmed in France too, CBR600 is going to disappear. 100-something units sold last year, Euro4 coming = bye bye.
I'm kinda surprised the sports 600 class has lasted as long as it has. The 400 market basicaly outpriced itself and in recent years the 600s have reached the same level of spec(nicer kit because it's newer but you get what I mean).
...and the prices have risen constantly as a result.
The first 600s were only 1.5 times or so the power of a 400, now they're over 2 times. They had conventional forks and now they mostly run Ohlins U/D numbers. Same kind of "give folk what they want - not what they can afford" mentality.
...and then there's the stuff they don't even want - but the racers do.
Slipper clutches that aren't functional as standard, fancy electronics...
...and ABS. I've nothing personaly against ABS - was probably a good idea in the 80s but tyres and brakes are a lot better these days, it's a long time since I've locked the front on anything but a dirt bike.
...and if I want to lock the back - that should be my prerogative. :P Been riding since I was 10 and on the odd occasion that I've locked the back on the road the puff of smoke in the mirror has only served to lightened the mood of whatever little scare I've just had. :)
Hell - I'm off on a rant now. ::)
Personaly if I were buying a new bike(which I never have and likely never will) I'd trade a slipper clutch and ABS for longevity anyday. It doesn't take much - the Guzzi that I mentioned earlier is a prime example. Hottest bike they'd built in donkeys years but they didn't shy away from the weight of a stainless exhaust.
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i68/Grooveski/Guzzi_02.jpg)
...and braidied hoses. Why hasn't every bike for the last 30 years left the factory with braided hoses? ???
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i68/Grooveski/Guzzi_03.jpg)
I'll bet this box has a few horror stories in it. :P
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i68/Grooveski/Guzzi_04.jpg)
Quote from: Grooveski on August 30, 2016, 12:09:04 AM
...and braidied hoses. Why hasn't every bike for the last 30 years left the factory with braided hoses? ???
Because in normal road use a non-braided hose will do the job just fine :)
Have to say your wrong Max. On a race bike you may have speed but you DONT have assholes who dont care in cars on the road with you!!!!
On the road you dont want a used rubber hose splitting or over expanding due to age when some dickhead pulls out in front of you, so you want braided hoses that make the brakes function better as they wont expand due to age!!!
I was a medical courier on a bike and always changed my brand new bikes lines to braided to KNOW at least my brakes were getting all the pressure I wanted from them. As a tech for over 35 years, I have seen too many old rubber lines that would kill you if you ever really needed your brakes but many dont care or just think its not important, it IS more important on a road bike than a race bike!!!
DD
I disagree. On a road bike the hoses are stressed for good only on extremely rare occasions, while on a race bike it is more or less at every braking spot. Max pressures on (most) road bikes are likely less than on race bikes. The problem you mention (which is a real one) is not the non-braided hose: it's the fact than when it's too old/in bad shape, you need to replace it. Braided hoses are mostly sold for road use because they look cool.
Seriously Max!!!
That is so wrong. I have sold hundreds of braided hoses in my life and maybe 5% was a "looks" thing. Fine a new hose is okay, but a used bike over 5 years old should have new rubber hoses at least, not old. Rule of thumb by a professional mechanic is replace rubber hoses every 4-5 years!!!
I ran workshops for Honda and Suzuki and I think I know a wee bit about what I am saying.
DD
Quote from: doubledragoncc on August 30, 2016, 08:22:05 AM
Seriously Max!!!
That is so wrong. I have sold hundreds of braided hoses in my life and maybe 5% was a "looks" thing. Fine a new hose is okay, but a used bike over 5 years old should have new rubber hoses at least, not old. Rule of thumb by a professional mechanic is replace rubber hoses every 4-5 years!!!
I ran workshops for Honda and Suzuki and I think I know a wee bit about what I am saying.
But I totally agree with you on the fact one should replace the rubber hoses every 4-5 years (or when no longer fit), it's exactly what I wrote. The problem is not a rubber hose, it's an *old* rubber hoe.
Thing is though, how many bikes do get fresh hoses every 5 years? The last 4 I've had all came with 10-15 year old original hoses and 3 of those were on the road and MOT'd.
Has to be said, I'm a bit fussy about my brakes. ::) The zxr has bigger calipers, sinstered pads, braided hoses and an RCS19 m/c but it's not just about braking ability - and not at all about show - it's mainly about feel and ease of use and those are relevent anywhere. I don't regret the half grand it took to get there and appreciate the difference even when I'm trickling to a stop at traffic lights.
A mate was laughing just the other night when he saw the test mockup for the wee dirt bike. ;D
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i68/Grooveski/DT_Brakes.jpg)
One pull of the lever though and the giggles faded to an "ooooh - niiiice!"(it's his old bike that the caliper came from).
Hard to believe that a BN125 caliper would match so well with Brembo radial m/c from an R1. Only has a quarter of the pistons but being a floater always did need a fair bit of juice. The original m/c wasn't particularly small - was just crap.
The hose is a secondhand rear off a Triumph Sprint - just happened to be the right length(£7 well spent).
Triumph do fit braided hoses to everything as standard. :)
Love your projects Grooveski - finally got hold of an old 70's Honda to play with and having a lot of fun tearing it down to discover that nearly every 'consumable' part has already been consumed and needs replacing. ;D
Quote from: h106frp on August 30, 2016, 08:56:57 PM
Love your projects Grooveski - finally got hold of an old 70's Honda to play with and having a lot of fun tearing it down to discover that nearly every 'consumable' part has already been consumed and needs replacing. ;D
Hahah, yes, the downside of this kind of projects, ...or the fun part, depends how you approach it. ;)
hey guys,
just following on the brake lines discussion from earlier in this thread - i've just had s/steel braided hoses fitted to my RF900, the first upgrade i've done since reading up on it. the decision was taken to fit them purely from a safety point of view - not much good having a bike that goes like stink if it can't stop, lol.
if there was any element of 'looks' to my decision, it was that i chose a color that matches the bike, other than that it was simply an upgrade that i consider important to my own safety. the bike is 20 years old already, and those rubber hoses didn't impress me too much with their performance, hence the upgrade.
only getting the bike back from the shop on monday, so will only be able to offer a 'before and after' review later, lolz
wishing all a good weekend! 8)
I think the fact that a hose change is often the first time many bike have had a brake fluid change is often overlooked when evaluating the effect of braided lines ;)
Say 60% new fluid, 30% new hose and 10% differenece between rubber and braided?
...presuming there's no sticky pistons as well. :D
The zxr was a saga. First it was braided hoses, fresh fluid and sinstered pads but that wasn't the instant improvement that it often is. Feel and force were both still lacking.
....so on went the R1 m/c. Big improvement in feel but still wasn't happy with the power.
.....so on went the earlier model calipers. Much heavier but bigger pistons and pads 1½ time the area of what I'd been running.
Unfortunately the R1 m/c wasn't quite enough master for them.
......so on went the RCS19.
At last - ten years down the line - the brakes are the way I'd have liked them to be when I bought the bike. Before that I was running around on a pretty fresh Fazer 600 and compared to blue-spots the zxr brakes were horrific at first and not even very good when running well. ::)
Added a natty little reservoir to the dirt bike setup. Lick of paint on the bracket and it's good to go.
Well - good to hang up somewhere for the rest of the build. :) If the natty little (cheap, chinese) reservior is going to melt it'll hopefully do it before it gets anywhere near a paintjob.
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i68/Grooveski/DT_Brakes2.jpg)
Say, anyone happen to know the legalities of fitting a rear tyre as a front?
The DT/BN combination has left me with 18" rear and 17" front rims(both x 2.5").
The front has been dropped 3" with the fork change plus the front wheel is down 4" in diameter. Frame is sitting horizontaly now(had a tall front originaly).
I've always been planning to heavy up the steering again with a chunky front tyre(after a flat-track vibe) but finding a pairing for the rims hasn't been easy. Looking at an 110/80 - 18 MT90 rear and a 110/90 - 17 MT60 on the front(which is also a rear - and probably marked as such :-\ ).
Like everything about the combo. On/off road bias, size, profiles and tread patterns. The dodgy front is V rated(twice the speed that the bike's ever going to reach) and have even considered that the carcasses are built differently - a V-rated bike still has a back brake and engine braking after all....
I'm happy take my chances - that's all I'm saying - but is it an MOT failure or a no-go for insurance - that's what I don't know.
Cannot imagine the MOT being a problem and i think you are already in the world of 'modified' for insurance purposes.
If these are spoked wheels have you considered re-building the wheel using the same hub but with a wider rim? You will struggle to (safely) get a flat tracker look with 2.5'' rims. :)
@Grooveski
"Say, anyone happen to know the legalities of fitting a rear tyre as a front?"
I was the first person in UK to do a Wide tire on a VRod when running Hooligan Choppers down in Southend and fitted the rear tyre to the front with NO legal problems at all. MOT was fine with it too.
(http://iasystems.tk/pics/Bikes/Guys%20Vrod%20a.jpg)
Remember that the tyre is now acting differently and is being pushed and not pushing the bike so you need to reverse the direction of the tyre depending on its tread cut though.
The basic concept of tyre ratio is 30mm thinner in width is fine from back to front before it starts effecting role speed and front tucking of the bike.
This VRod rode totally neutral but was slower in its role speed due to fat tyres both ends.
Your point on tyre rating is simple. You can only really go as fast as the lowest rating you have safely. Tyre temps is another thing though lol.
DD
Quote from: h106frp on September 06, 2016, 07:16:01 AM
If these are spoked wheels have you considered re-building the wheel using the same hub but with a wider rim? You will struggle to (safely) get a flat tracker look with 2.5'' rims. :)
That's all there's room for anyway. ;) Pirelli's datacharts list both the tyres at nearer 120mm max width on a 2.5 rim. That's the size of the (oversize) rears Ive been using for a while so know it'll fit(just - there's always a little wear when I take them off where the chain's had a a skim in the bumpier stuff). Even if I moved the chain out there's no more room in the swinging arm.
At the front there'll be 4mm clearance either side - the 125 Eliminator only wore a 90 section - so it looks pretty full(slid the front end over my old rear wheel at one point).
Rim range for both is 2.15 to 3.
The 'flat track vibe' I mentioned will be just that - a vibe only. Will have lights and brakes and all sorts of junk that would never be seen dead on a pukka F/T.
Was in a pals garden and commented that one of his old L-platers had "quite a nice tank really". One "that thing's dead - help yourself" later and Project Baby Flattracker was born.
My wee DT has been a city hack for quite a while now. It's other use is for local(ish) camping trips (30-40 miles on road then 5-10 off each way). The "off" bits are easy stuff, FC tracks usually and deer paths at the worst.
So the plan is to make it more roadworthy(since that's where it spends most of it's life) but still be able to pootle(well - more scoot hopefully :) ) along in the dirty bits.
Is my first custom and have to say I've got the bug(always was a tinkerer(maintenance and rebuilds)).
May only be a bitza getting cobbled together from what was lying around but I've been learning loads and there's a grin factor in hacking away at an old road sign for a few hours and ending up with headlight brackets that fit 'just-so', chopping a lovely little F/T style mudguard out of the hideous acreage that was the Eliminator one or realising that Trail Tech's Endurance II speedo will squeeze into the tank cowl if it's tickled with a file a little.
Thanks for the pointers DD. :)
....and ooooooh - shiny! :D
NP bro
It was a lot of work and those custom 2 inch pipes made a sweet sound. Even had all digital instruments in the mirrors to keep it legal but clean lol.
(http://iasystems.tk/pics/Bikes/Guys%20speedo.jpg)
I love custom design and building. Took me 20 years to earn my pro ring!!!
DD
That's brilliant. ;D Y'know I was all over a stall at the bike show selling all sorts of custom dials and readouts and I don't think that'd have ever crossed my mind had I stood there a year rather than ten minutes.
Raises another question - wasn't sure if idiot lights had to be labelled?
There'll be room left in the tank cowl for a few tiny leds but none for labels for them.
Guessing(now, having seen that) that it's cool but it was one that I'd been wondering about.
Say, do you still make cardboard mockups of bits? I was a laughing stock during the first dry build because of how much of the bike was made of Bud fridgepacks and masking tape. ;D
One of my mates said all I needed was a magic word to transform them to real parts so I stood back, wiggled my fingers and announced "Money!"...
...but nothing happened. :(
I swear by cardboard and wood mock ups. I was one of the first to start using computer design but it saves mistakes and physical mockups can not be beaten for seeing the end result with out costing much.
The Tank mockup for Devilish
(http://iasystems.tk/pics/Bikes/Devilish%20Tank%20Mockup.jpg)
Devilish frame mockup:
(http://iasystems.tk/pics/Bikes/Devilish%20Frame%20Mockup.jpg)
Beats even 3D on a puter lol
Never had a problem with custom idiot lights, never had to label one.
DD
Hehe, I'd forgotton the computer aided stage. ;D
For all it was just a few photos scaled and overlayed it did let me see the geometry and check it was going to be in the ballpark.
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i68/Grooveski/DT_Sketch.jpg)
Good to know about the lights, cheers again. :)
Just be careful using photos to judge a build by. It is very easy to make a large mistake because of each pictures scaling. Even when you think you scaled pictures to each other, due to the perspective of a camera, errors in scale will happen. Just a worthwhile tip to remember.
Also, going by your picture, I would not recommend such a short wheelbase. You have taken the straight line stability away from the bike. It is fine for a trials bike but will give adverse handling on the road. For a responsive bike look at the dimensions of such bikes as the old RD250/350LC or at least that type of bike. Also keep center of gravity in mind. Your design has a very high COG.
DD
Yeah - I think the DT whose photo I used had it's back end jacked up. When I put it together it didn't seem quite as steep.
(front will go up another 10mm or so when the chunky tyre goes on)
(http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i68/Grooveski/DT_01.jpg)
Get what you're saying about the high COG.
A plus on that side it that the seat height is down a couple of inches and a fair precentage of the weight is me.
And yeah, looks twitchy to me too, but I reckon once the heavy tyre is on....
Hopefully better than a skinny semi-knobbly on a 21" rim and a drum brake at the end of long, spindly trail forks with goosed 30 year old springs. ;D
P.S. those stanchions are bent silly and both coming back, there'll be another few degrees of rake these days with the fresh straight ones.
Oh - welding lugs onto a frame?
(You're gonna be sick of the sight of me soon - We haven't even got to the electrics yet) :D
Have no jig.
All I have here is stick and I just keep shying away from even trying. Too hot even low with 1.6s I'm guessing.
...so I was thinking hire a mig set for a weekend and put them on with multiple tacks keeping the temp down inbetween. Happy to do so(migged away half a dozen years of my life as a fabricator). Not fussed about weld looks, none of them will be visible and I can tidy them up enough that I'll not cringe too much myself later...
...or for a few more quid I could pick up a cheap and nasty brazing kit. Have only brazed once though(in college 30 years ago) and for all it went ok the guy talking me through it really knew his stuff - not kidding myself on that it'd go that well now even with some practice.
Not sure either if brazing is still a jig job? I mind the whole point was that the tube wasn't being heated as much but the pushbike frames the lecturer was knocking out on the side were jigged up to the eyeballs.
:-\
Looks sweet!
I can't wait to see this finished ;D
Look forward to it too. ;D It's coming along ok. Been painting up bit and bobs all summer.
...which leads to another question:
Does acid-etching undercoat actually work? :-\
Bit late in the day for the question but I don't really know yet so it's still bouncing around.
I hit all sorts of stuff with it - all the alloy, anything chrome or chromish, rusty bits on the rims(rust and chrome - yummy - the perfect base! ::) ).
....and at the time had a horrible "you're kidding yourself on!" feel. Have tried painting all that sort of stuff in the past and it's ended up as so many flakes on the driveway.
Everything was sanded down and roughed up beforehand(and smoothrighted afterwards). The undercoat sure looked the part but I can't shake the "snake oil" vibe.
Back in fridgepack mode tonight. Popped round to local metal stockist and got the 2mm ally sheet for the sidepanels. Blethering about frame lugs brought them to the fore. :)