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A selection of Screens from the Real 2 Virtual British Supersport Races today

[PS: Don't take this as me not wanting to see something like this, as I do think it would be a good thing to have, some feedback from the tyres. As I said before I look to the rumble for a 'replacement' for the lost SoTP feeling of the bike, not necessarily amplification of the data graphs.However I understand that it may not be possible to integrate this stuff in a useful way, and considering how little I actually know about this stuff, I'd go with the opinion of someone who does]

Considering that GP Bikes is a simulator then the use of telemetry is the correct way

Why not learn to code such a plugin yourself and appreciate the amount of work put in by Max...

Also, my work as a moderator is to keep the forum clean from spam mainly. I am allowed an opinion and make humour comments....

Couldn't have put it better myself. Well actually I probably could but it wouldn't have lasted long on the forums 

British troll army at it again. Now even the moderators are chiming in with unproductive hackling.

Not sure it's unproductive hackling, just some humour.

I will say, I do find it weird how you can 'provide' all these methods for integrating this stuff into a program, without actually knowing how to do it.

You keep saying 'use an if clause', or 'its only this' and yet you've done nothing to validate all of this.

Unusually for me, I'm not meaning to sound like a b*****d for once, (I just can't think of a non b*****d way to say it) I'm just making an observation. But, maybe your suggestions would be taken a bit more seriously if you did provide something of use?

PS:
Don't take this as me not wanting to see something like this, as I do think it would be a good thing to have, some feedback from the tyres. As I said before I look to the rumble for a 'replacement' for the lost SoTP feeling of the bike, not necessarily amplification of the data graphs.

However I understand that it may not be possible to integrate this stuff in a useful way, and considering how little I actually know about this stuff, I'd go with the opinion of someone who does 

I don't understand why you can't just simply add an experimental rumble mode without any advanced tweaks or algorithms and then this whole discussion can be settled in one minute.
We already spent more time discussing this than it would take to code this alternative mode.

If it's so simple and quick why don't you give it a go yourself? You seem to want it bad enough.

Bad feedback is not better than no feedback.

While I would like to see some feedback for tyre behaviour (As I said I look to rumble for a "Fill In" for the SoTP feel that is lost) I completely agree, that bad feedback is less useless than no feedback.

If there's one person that knows about this stuff here its you mate, so if it ain't possible in a good way then its a shame but that's the way it is.

Only one way to find out.

If I had to guess, he sounds like he's already tried it... Or something similar.

I mean the rumble is useless, not the entire plugin. Hopefully
And even if it's far beyond what you can do, if it's useless then well, it's useless

Fair enough 

MaxHUD also works for MXB, so in principle one could compare my rumble implementation with PiBoSo's in MXB.
Or wait for PiBoSo to make it available in GPB too.

That, is a very good point and one that completely slipped my mind. Well I know what I'm trying this weekend   

Your bike speed (as in chassis speed) could be 200.00Kmh, your rear wheel speed could be identical to that, 200.00Kmh. And yet you could be slipping like mad, laterally.

Yes, I agree here. At the minute it's the low speed grip losses, mainly rear washouts, where I'm having trouble ATM. Not sure how useful wheel speed differences would be in this situation if at all, as it's neutral throttle, wheels in line at most.

Estimating slipping (lateral and longitudinal) from usually known observables (chassis speed, wheelspeeds etc) is far from easy. I tried something very rough in HUDLean, showing the difference in direction (angle) of the chassis velocity vector versus the chassis orientation (i.e. showing when the bike is not moving in the direction it is pointing to) but it didn't seem very useful to me.

This may not be too useful as a
graphical readout, as there's not much you could do with it I don't think.

However it would be interesting to see how this would relate if integrated with 'rumble'. Maybe as we start going 'out of line' the rumble starts, and progressively gets larger until a crash? Not sure. But it could be useful in situations I tthink, even as a placebo for tyre grip. (Tricking the player into 'feeling' grip loss)

But I'm not an expert, only way I'd know is if I could try it.

I'm sure GPB internally has longitudinal slip and lateral slip computed (they are inputs in the tire model) but PiBoSo probably does not want to expose these as you wouldn't have them on a real bike telemetry. I tend to agree with him on that point.

Interesting. So I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say youre trying to get 'rumble' to represent the dataset generated by a bike?

I understand for graphical out puts.

For me personally, with rumble, I'm looking for the vibrations to represent the 'seat of the pants' feeling lost by using a game pad instead of a motorcycle. One of the big things for me that is lost is the tyre flex and slip, as the tyre is the first line of suspension. How that tyre flexes/loads seems to be a huge part of how bike behaviour is "understood" by the rider.

One thing that is shown to me however, is the Virtual Rider seems to limit the bikes lean based on where the "maximum grip" is. Now, I know there isn't a "Max Grip" Setting, and I know that's not how it works, but that seems to be the effect that is represented in GP Bikes.

For me if that barrier could be 'removed' and replaced with progressive Vibration, (The closer to the point where the VR intervenes the higher the vibration) this would give much more useful feedback, and give the player a bit more control.

I'm aware the "barrier" isn't necessarily something that can be removed in a plugin, but maybe the vibration could be implemented? Maybe as a separate check box, with threshold settings adjusting how close you have to get to the value before it kicks in and so on?

As for the real world, I don't know much about sensors and stuff, but Honda MotoGP team reportedly has a light on the dash that illuminates when the tyre is approaching grip loss. It's all rumours but I wouldn't be surprised if such a sensor existed.

If there was one You'd possibly have to look to WSBK however rather than MotoGP due to the more advanced electronics over there.

Following a recent discussion, I feel like adding tyre slip as something that can be shown in plugins would be useful.

I don't know if that's the right way of saying it, but I'll try and explain.

Using MaxHUD's inbuilt rumble, I had decent feel from the suspension and chassis, however there was no feeling from when the tyre approached the limit of grip/started sliding.

(This is an exaggerated issue on the HP4 Race I found due to the different tyre/suspension values I have tried)

It really seems to harm the overall riding experience, to the point I never even used 'rumble' for over 2 years when I started.

Having the ability to add a growing vibration as the limit of tyre grip is approached, and exceeded would be incredibly useful for me personally.

Now whether this is released as a plugin option or as part of a standard controller vibration integration I don't know.

Would just be nice to have.

 

To be honest I always thought that the rumble as implemented in the pluigin is close to useless and just cosmetic. It won't give you more "feeling". At best it should only be able to translate some blatant vibrations (like passing over kerbs, or bike weave/wobble). But some seems to like it so that's it.

I mean for the first 2 and a bit years of GPB I didn't use it. (Other parts of your plug in like standings, fuel etc but not rumble.)

I didn't want to go so far as saying it's useless, as the entire plugin is far beyond what I'm capable of making, and it's really, really good, but the rumble isn't what I wanted out of it 

I just thought I'd try 5o see if I could solve some (seemingly) random falls I was having, and see if I could get it set up for my liking, as it could be an advantage.

I got it relatively close, but the tyre slip response seemed to be the missing 'part' for me ATM.

I'll pop it in the 'Suggestions and Wishlist' topic 

BTW, MXB has controller rumble integrated since beta13.
Haven't tried, but I wouldn't be surprised if PiBoSo implementation was better than my one

Yes I have seen it. It's hard to judge what's better when ones on dirt and ones on tarmac, due to the fact they're inherently different disciplines that provide different styles and thus different feedback.

I wish it would be implemented on GPB to get a direct comparison however, but nice work with what you got available. 

Was trying out MaxHUD rumble effects the other day, just fiddling with the settings, and I noticed that most, if not all of the vibration is to do with suspension and chassis flex.

There is nothing with tyres, whether they're approaching their 'peak' grip, or sliding. Results in some very frustrating accidents occasionally. It's also one of the reasons I played the last 2-3+ years with no vibration at all. As I didn't find it helpful in what it was telling me. But now I'm trying to set it up I want it to be as close to my liking as I can.

However after re-reading the previous posts, I'm fairly certain the absence is because of a GPB data output limitation, not the actual mod itself, so I'm not sure how much can be done.

May need a repost in the 'suggestions + wishlist' segment 

If this can be confirmed/denied that would be lovely 

One of the big things recently with GPB modding is implementing alternative rider models and rider styles.

There are now over 5-6 alternative riders, with different boot and glove models, as well as well over 20 riding styles to choose from to go with.

However in both mods, and standard riding styles, we are missing quite an obvious one for me.

That is what I call an "alternate" modern rider. Basically the same as the Modern Rider, but without the "Aero Hump" on the back.

For me, particularly for classic
"pre-injection" racing, this Just fits better than the aero hump, which is really a post 2000 style thing.

Sure you can use the Legends Rider, or put a skin over an already existing hump, but I'd like to see the "issue", if it's even called that, stopped at the source. Which would be a new model/edit of the existing one.

Just something to think about that could help immersion etc. 

[Credit: X1mk_Z3 ^^]

And the CAWS Golden Era Grand Prix Machines, at Goodwood. The MV absolutely demolishes the Norton, but its still Buckets of fun. 

Riders:

Myst1cPrun3 - Me (#1 Norton Manx Sprint)
X1mk_Z3 (Not visible in Pics)
Harv (Hastings69) (#1 MV Triple)


Credit: X1mk_Z3 ^^

[CREDIT X1mk_Z3 ^^]

Turning the clock back with the old Varese 500 at Laguna Seca. Horrendously Wobbly, but still really fun. Can't wait for the redo 

Riders:

#61 - matty0l215
#11 - Myst1cPrun3 - Me
#4  - TomHWK
#3  - Harv (Hastings69)
#2  - X1mk_Z3


CREDIT X1mk_Z3 ^^

And here Is my PoV of a Classic SBK race At Donington

Did some laps at Oulton Park with the 2017 Honda Moto2 Bikes. Here are some screens,

Vid Here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56ay3kkAclk

(Just Link as this is a Photos Topic)

well its supposed to be on an axis like front brake or steer so it wouldnt be a good plan. needs rebinding really