Unable To Lean Bikes When Front Wheel In The Air....

[Vini]

I am manually leaning the rider, which is the only way you can steer a bike when the front wheel is in the air.
As I said, I could control the front wheel with the bike steering axis if I locked it first with the brake.
Other than that this axis has no effect on the bike when the front has no contact.
This I find a little strange but not dramatic because you should be able to control the front wheel even when it's still spinning.

[Hawk]

I am manually leaning the rider, which is the only way you can steer a bike when the front wheel is in the air.
As I said, I could control the front wheel with the bike steering axis if I locked it first with the brake.
Other than that this axis has no effect on the bike when the front has no contact.
This I find a little strange but not dramatic because you should be able to control the front wheel even when it's still spinning.

No wonder some are saying GPB is realistic in turning while in a wheelie! I wish Piboso would tell us about these little quirks. Lol 

Maybe it's the spinning wheel that Piboso has set it to? Maybe you only need to pull the front brake on till you stop the wheel and then you could release the brake and still turn? Maybe worth a test Vin?

Hawk.

[Vini]

Yes, you only need to brake until the front wheel has stopped spinning.
You should even be able to keep the wheelie up if you got throttle and brake on the same axis.
A few ms of front brake are enough to stop it.

[BOBR6 84]

Ah I see.. I always thought it was pretty realistic to be honest though.. Biggest problem is the front end lifting in the first place.. Too light! That corner at victoria where the front lifts as you want to turn in (turn 3) you should short shift or roll off the throttle. If you turned in at that speed with the wheel airborn in real life I think it would be dangerous. 

At my local track I have a similar thing.. Right hand hairpin very tight.. As soon as you exit, the track kinks to the left onto a long straight.. Just before you take the left kink the engine revs are at the point where the bike wants to wheelie, so usually the kink is taken with the wheel in the air! which sends me straight on towards the edge of the track down the straight.

Trick is to crank the bike over as early as possible.. As the revs shoot up with the slight lean angle, you pretty much ''spin up'' through the kink instead of the front lifting.. All depends on the exit of the hairpin though.. Too wide and the wheelie is pretty much guaranteed..

[Hawk]

Ah I see.. I always thought it was pretty realistic to be honest though.. Biggest problem is the front end lifting in the first place.. Too light! That corner at victoria where the front lifts as you want to turn in (turn 3) you should short shift or roll off the throttle. If you turned in at that speed with the wheel airborn in real life I think it would be dangerous. 

At my local track I have a similar thing.. Right hand hairpin very tight.. As soon as you exit, the track kinks to the left onto a long straight.. Just before you take the left kink the engine revs are at the point where the bike wants to wheelie, so usually the kink is taken with the wheel in the air! which sends me straight on towards the edge of the track down the straight.

Trick is to crank the bike over as early as possible.. As the revs shoot up with the slight lean angle, you pretty much ''spin up'' through the kink instead of the front lifting.. All depends on the exit of the hairpin though.. Too wide and the wheelie is pretty much guaranteed..

Totally agree with you Bob about the front end being too light.....

What I usually do is lift the throttle for a split sec at that point to avoid the dreaded frozen lean effect when the front wheel lifts and ending up, as you say, heading towards the edge of the track. Hehe. But apparently that only happens with the auto rider, so as good a reason as any to convert to manual rider too I think. 

But yeah interesting technique your suggesting there mate; I will definitely give it a try and see how I go.....

Thanks Bob!

Hawk.

[Vini]

I think the bump before turn 3 at Victoria is already too fast to properly steer the bike into the corner when it's doing a wheelie (at least if you still want to hit the apex ).
As Bob suggested, start tipping the bike into the corner just before the front would get airborne and use the 'understeer' (light front wheel, only very little steering possible) to not hit the grass instead of the apex.

[HornetMaX]

I am manually leaning the rider, which is the only way you can steer a bike when the front wheel is in the air.

That's not entirely true, because of the gyroscopic effect that takes place when you steer the spinning front wheel in the air.

As I said, I could control the front wheel with the bike steering axis if I locked it first with the brake.
Other than that this axis has no effect on the bike when the front has no contact.
This I find a little strange but not dramatic because you should be able to control the front wheel even when it's still spinning.

Hmm it's not what I see. While wheeling I can control the front wheel while wheeling even without using the brake. Of course it's "reversed" (stick left = steer right), but that's essentially OK.
The effect on the bike lean may not be big (or not as big as what you get leaning the rider).

Again, to me it seems that if the front is just s bit off the ground, then yes you can't control it. But if it's well off, then you can.

[Vini]

Hmm it's not what I see. While wheeling I can control the front wheel while wheeling even without using the brake. Of course it's "reversed" (stick left = steer right), but that's essentially OK.

I would really like to see a video of that. Because when I try to steer the front wheel in a wheelie without locking it first, it does not really work. The rider will sometimes steer for a split second but that only happens randomly or when the bike is dropping very fast. Keeping the front wheel not aligned for multiple seconds is not possible for me without stopping it.



I don't think Hawk is interested in the tiny gyro effect the front wheel has in steering the bike in a wheelie.

[grimm]

Default settings (no DST), auto rider left/right lean, no front brake, just good old wheelies trying to get them to turn (at an extreme compared to a racing situation)

https://www.youtube.com/v/w_aAB0dXTFc

I am using the default 600 mapping leaving the pits, other clips are an engine map I made that resembles the "cripple triple" setup on a GSXR600. (Disabling a cylinder for less power)

[Hawk]

@Vin: I am interested in the gyro effect of the front wheel too when in a wheelie because that has an effect in real life too. It does help steer when in a wheelie does it not? 

@Grimm: Are you using Beta 7b? The 600 bikes are not updated yet for Beta 7, are they? Or have I misunderstood?

Nice video by the way, but the bike does seem to be only steering at a high wheelie angle..... What about being able to steer the bike when the front wheel is say only about a foot off the ground?

Hawk.

[BOBR6 84]

So what is the conclusion?

Personally I think its fine how it is in GPB.. (apart from needing more weight on the front end, if it is that simple..probably not lol)

[Vini]

Only thing PiBoSo could change is proper control over the front wheel when it's spinning in the air instead of often centering itself again.
Maybe this will cause problems when accelerating out of corners because the misaligned wheel and/or the possibly 'confused' virtual rider (in the moment the front touches the ground again) might send the bike into a wobble.
This could be PiBoSo's reason for not giving us full front wheel control.


@Hawk: It's by far not the amount of steering you are looking for.

[Hawk]

So the conclusion is that the steering/lean of the bike needs working on to make it realistic when the front wheel lifts lightly or moderately off the ground.
However, when the front wheel is very high off the ground the bike seems to react as expected in real life.....

So the conclusion is as far as I understand it from these tests above is: We have a sort of steering/lean gap(meaning unable to steer/lean) when the front wheel lifts(lightly to moderate height) off the ground at this time that needs sorting.

Not had the chance to test in DST yet.... Will do as soon as possible. 

Any other conclusions are welcome guys. 

Hawk.

[BOBR6 84]

Hahaha fair enough. I disagree but won't push it any further 

[Vini]

Hahaha fair enough. I disagree but won't push it any further 

+1