Brexit or not ?

[Hawk]

Agree Hawk. Disgusting. Even London select asking for independance and to stay in EU.  Really shows what we all know that they dont give a shit about people outside of London.

Posting quotes from media spinners is a waste of time for everyone.

Ages? Don't remember my vote being linked with my age how did they know? So I guess it is a statistic borne from geolocation? More statistical spin and bollox.
If anything it shows older people understand what democracy means. What was sacrificed to even allow these people to have the freedom to vote. Seems by those results the youngsters admit they don't really give a shit about any of that.

These people asking for a rerun of the vote - disgusting! As they don't believe in democracy might as well take their vote count off them altogether.

Totally agree Nick..... and those asking for a re-run of the referendum now need to ask themselves if they want to live under a democratic system or a dictatorship! They should be ashamed of themselves for even contemplating such a thing after a referendum has been held! 

Maybe just media bias, but seems every young person they interview voted to remain and are seemingly disgusted with the older generation for forcing them to leave the EU...... It's just typical of the younger generation these days to only think of themselves instead of what's best for the majority of the UK.... What sort of kids are we raising these days I ask myself?! 

Hawk.
PS: Nearly forgot.... I do hope the Scots hold another indie-referendum(sounds like they may well do that) so they will finally split from us and then come crawling back on their hands and knees after 3 years after failing to survive on their own.... At least that will destroy that stupid nationalist Nicola Sturgeons political career, so we'll get rid of her too!...Go for it Scotland!. Lol 

[HornetMaX]

It's also very interesting that those that voted remain have never known anything different than life under the EU, so what does that tell you? 

It tells maybe that people with higher education and a more open mind voted stay (rightfully or not, that we don't know, yet).
I think the youngsters simply believe more in the EU ideals than the rest of the UK (who only sees the business and sovereignty aspects).

If I had my way I would dissolve the government and go for a general election right now

I can agree with that. I'm convinced the outcome would be a real catastrophe for the UK, far worse than the brexit stuff, but I don't see any solid argument to avoid an anticipated general election.

Ages? Don't remember my vote being linked with my age how did they know? So I guess it is a statistic borne from geolocation? More statistical spin and bollox.

It's written in the bottom part of the image: "Lord Ashcroft Polls". I don't see any reason to doubt what the image says (except the usual CIA stuff).

These people asking for a rerun of the vote - disgusting! As they don't believe in democracy might as well take their vote count off them altogether.

Agreed. Re-running the referendum would be a totally embarrassing joke. Asking for a re-run is childish at best.

[doubledragoncc]

WHY even talk about it......................

Its done you never had a choice and its finished with!!!

Politics and bikers dont work well!!!

[JJS209]

Now lets see how the "new" (cameron will retire in october?!) brit. goverment will handle their home-made, intern seperation.
what is with scottland and more important, northern ireland? didnt they voted in majority for a stay?
what would happen when scottland will, somehow, split themself from the united kingdom? what about the "peace" in ireland in such a setting?
many questions and only time will tell us the answers...

[h106frp]

It tells maybe that people with higher education and a more open mind voted stay 

LOL!

Have you met any of our youth?

The remain petition has just had over a million fraudulent names removed, so much for on-line statistics.

[Napalm Nick]

Maybe you have a preference what will happen JJ?

Gotta agree H - some very strange comments coming from our European 'Remain' friends.

[HornetMaX]

It tells maybe that people with higher education and a more open mind voted stay 

LOL!

Have you met any of our youth?

Yes. And my wife still teaches to them.

But the remark was simply based on the fact that all across the world, education levels have been raising.
Once again, it doesn't imply that the youngsters voted right (or wrong).

Gotta agree H - some very strange comments coming from our European 'Remain' friends.

Uh, I actually stated for the start that I was hoping for the UK to leave (albeit expecting the stay to win). So somehow, I was aligned to Hawk

But I don't see a big trouble about Scotland and Northern Ireland: Scotland will probably push for a vote as soon as possible.

And if Northern Ireland asks to rejoin Ireland, well this sounds like an happy ending to a painful story, no ?
How strong  a symbol it is when people with different (and pretty strong) religious orientations are both unanimous in voting for the stay ?

This is the message that has never reached England (despite the efforts): the EU is more than a common market and a trade treaty. And yes, it goes beyond laws abut the right curvature for premium quality bananas. If you (the UK) are fundamentally against a common government, a common military force, a common immigration policy, a common set of fiscal laws, then you should be out. Which is why I was hoping for the leave to win. Because while the UK was in, it was essentially working against all EU's projects, except the commercial ones.

But no grudge: EU membership is not imposed to anybody. UK decided to get out, I can respect that of course.

[girlracerTracey]

WHY even talk about it......................

Its done you never had a choice and its finished with!!!

Politics and bikers dont work well!!!

I tend to agree with you DD. I remember my late father telling me that a famous "sim" racing forum (the precursor to race department? I'm not sure) had an a general "off-topic" section for all non "sim"racing related discussions. In the lead up to the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003 it got really active and quite heated in the "Iraq war debate" section. Like really heated. The site admin.s has to close the off topic part of the forum down as a consequence according to my Dad. So yes debates can and do get "charged" when these sort of serious issues are discussed. People have different perspectives depending upon where they live in the world and how closely they follow the mainstream media.

As regards the younger generation in the U.K., the students and so on, the people of my age-group, far from having open and inquiring minds from my honest experience they have a tendency to "lap-up" the MSM..what attention they pay to these matters. Then they're off to a music festival to get drunk and try to pitch their tent in the mud. In between taking "selfies" and looking out for some "love and adventure". A liberally minded pro Europe stance is very popular (similar to the popularity amongst the young of gay rights etc. )  without them making much personal inquiry, if any at all, into the background and facts of the matter in hand. So off they trot to facebook to voice their support in the absence in the majority of cases of having performed any meaningful research of their own. This general trait amongst my peers does genuinely worry me if I'm honest. Not all of them are like that but most are.. Where has the radical and incisive thinking of previous student generations disappeared to one has to ask? I wish I knew tbh. Politics doesn't seem to be very popular amongst the younger generation these days. It's deemed in many quarters of this age-group to be a less than exciting subject for discussion. It is deemed to have limited relevance to their lives and limited relevance to their professional or private futures. Which is altogether rather sad really. So from my experience I don't believe that across the board the "young" in the U.K. are actually that well informed at all these days on world events and politics.. That's my honest take having lived in the U.K. for 3 years now.

In case people might be interested here's a link to an article  by Ambrose Evans-Pritchard of the U.K. Daily Telegraph regarding the CIA's links to the EU.  The same journalist, Ambrose Evans-Pritchard, was the Telegraph's Washington based correspondent in the year 2000 when these links were first discovered. This article is from April this year and brings the subject up to date in light of the EU referendum.

"The European Union always was a CIA project, as Brexiteers discover"
AMBROSE EVANS-PRITCHARD

Brexiteers should have been prepared for the shattering intervention of the US.  The European Union always was an American project.

It was Washington that drove European integration in the late 1940s, and funded it covertly under the Truman, Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson, and Nixon administrations.

The key CIA front was the American Committee for a United Europe (ACUE), chaired by Donovan. Another document shows that it provided 53.5 per cent of the European movement's funds in 1958. The board included Walter Bedell Smith and Allen Dulles, CIA directors in the Fifties, and a caste of ex-OSS officials who moved in and out of the CIA.

..."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/04/27/the-european-union-always-was-a-cia-project-as-brexiteers-discov/

Take care all and have an enjoyable Sunday evening.

grT 

[JJS209]

This is the message that has never reached England (despite the efforts): the EU is more than a common market and a trade treaty. And yes, it goes beyond laws abut the right curvature for premium quality bananas. If you (the UK) are fundamentally against a common government, a common military force, a common immigration policy, a common set of fiscal laws, then you should be out. Which is why I was hoping for the leave to win. Because while the UK was in, it was essentially working against all EU's projects, except the commercial ones.

+1

[Napalm Nick]

No-one disagrees the EU 'ideal' is a really great idea but it isn't working. The trouble is how long do we wait until it starts working then? Another 50 years? 100? You are kidding yourselves, protecting your faceless governors with the hope the EU 'ideals' are being worked towards.

It has turned into a dictatorship. The people now in charge of the EU (can you name them/recognise their picture?) make laws behind closed doors and have to answer to no-one about them. If they do something you don't like - lets say by making competition in business illegal, stifling all small business, taking the livelihood of one country and give it to others but offer compensation instead (IE: take control of everything (a dictatorship masterplan)), then you can like it or lump it because you certainly cant have a democratic vote about it. Maybe the Law will be to honour the EU God with your firstborn? Don't like it? Unlucky!

So the beurocrats' (renamed Eurocrats cos no-one likes beurocrats) (or 'highly educated people' groomed to actual believe they are better than the working people and it their duty to 'direct them') make lots of 'Directives' and generate paperwork to stamp and accept advertising money from the big business to secure trade preferences and the rich get richer and the poor get poorer. The ideals of the European Union are lost ages ago behind  (for example) the 23 EU Directives affecting your Toilet brush that have to be complied with to ensure only one business can make them).

Nah, get out and stand on your own two feet and hope (er) Dolphins, form the next World Alliance and aren't up their own a*rses and greed orientated they can focus on the whole point of the Union in the first place not how much free Viagra they can get. Then I will vote back in (not that anyone would have us cos the butt-hurt will last a decade at least).

EU Ideals pffff - come on that is for the youngsters, a dream long gone.

I wonder how many readers believe their government would hold a fair beurocratic referendum.??    Put your hand down Scotland I just watched the news...

[h106frp]

I cannot wait for you to try and sell this idea to the new eastern european members- i have worked there (away from the tourist destinations) and i can tell you first hand they are far more insular than the UK ever was.

[HornetMaX]

OK Nick, that confirms you wanted to be out. And now you are, so it's all good. Where's the problem ?

But if you are in the UK and you run a business that happens to make toilet brushes, then don't expect to come overseas and sell them in the EU.

I'm sure no EU citizen will tel you EU is perfect or even half-perfect, but I'm sure a fair majority wants to improve it, not to kill it: that makes all the difference between who's willing to stay and who's willing to leave.

But again, leaving the EU is not a crime, I don't blame the UK at all: if leaving is what people want, then be it.
At worst, it's a strong message to the people in charge of the EU right now that a change is needed. Another reason to thank you for the call.

I cannot wait for you to try and sell this idea to the new eastern european members- i have worked there (away from the tourist destinations) and i can tell you first hand they are far more insular than the UK ever was.

This can be true, but they are willing to make the necessary efforts to join because the do see the benefits: if the EU can improve a country standards by setting the bar to join to some height, then that's all good.

My wife is from eastern Europe (Romania), we have family there and we go there from time to time: it's still a bit of far west (errr, east), but it's improving quickly. Way more than North Korea

[Napalm Nick]

Oh yeh I wanted to add that all the BBC news did here was interview youngsters at the Glastonbury Festival over those days. They strangely never asked one of them if they actually voted or had set up a proxy vote while they were in the muddy fields smoking pot all week lol. The only people the Remain Camp can moan about is those who never voted.

Ultimately, we made our decision and I am glad some people can respect that. I don't understand why anyone in the UK would moan about having the freedom to a democratic vote, even if they lost. I can understand a lot of countries being quite jealous. Funnily enough that kind of freedom is what the EU was probably formed to protect, shame they are doing the opposite.

Max - I don't have a problem (not sure why you said that but never mind), only with our own people who don't understand how a referendum works and the point behind it and what it means to actually be able to have that vote, and with non UK people wishing us bad tidings because of it (not implying anything there).

But if you are in the UK and you run a business that happens to make toilet brushes, then don't expect to come overseas and sell them in the EU.

Why not? Trade to us will still want to continue no? Or will all these countries now be happy to lose all those sales ( think Germany is 6 Billion just from the Cars?) Lose that and all the other countries will have to support their loss. Or is that a punishment from the EU for leaving? Remember the Eurozone is the only continent financially diminishing. I will take my bog brushes to the developing word then!

And remember I am the Devils 1st Advocate.

[girlracerTracey]

It seems to me if I am honest that the future system of governance of the EU Superstate is built upon the concept of a child-like trust of authority..

That's my honest take on this. My first rule of life is that I do not blindly trust my own sovereign government let alone the unaccountable system of governance of a federalised EU Superstate.

Do the citizens of the United States of America feel trust in their centralised federal government? Do the citizens of the U.S. Superstate feel that their federal government  is properly accountable to them? From what I have heard the answer is a a resounding no. Levels of confidence and trust in the U.S. Federal Government have never been lower and more imperiled.

So no personally the EU is not for me. In an ideal world in an ideal future in a distant universe maybe. But here and now no way Jose..! Not in this world and not with the potential dangers that this world faces. We need to make those who govern us more accountable for their actions..not less. In my honest and personal opinion.

Just my 2 cents.

If Europe is happy to go forward with the concept of a Single Government, a single military force and a single set of fiscal laws then good for them.. I'm not buying.

I guess at the end of the day people just "tick" differently. We I suppose will just have to learn to respect and get along with the two different systems of governance and the two different systems of ideology. I guess there will have to be room for both? That's the way it's looking..

grT

P.S. good luck with TTIP..! Although having said that you never know with the obedient and compliant "puppets" we have in government in the U.K. we'll probably have the wretched thing here also.. lol.

[Napalm Nick]

Did you hear about the Brits who have all cancelled their holidays "because now the borders are shut they wont be able to go" ?

Maybe there should be some kind of pre-vote IQ test lol.