Lean angle limit

[Stout Johnson]

"Superdifficult" DST just doesn't let you to concentrate on riding the bike and showing good laptimes instead of concentrating on "not falling".

I agree with that part, that's why I wrote this...

I have tried DST for quite some time with a normal gamepad controller and I just find it very unrealistic with such a controller. First off, it is hard quite to get the countersteering in your head with that. But irl, if you ride a bike it just comes natural. In fact many even don't know that they do counter-steer to initiate the cornering/leaning. It is possible to get it in one's head after some time ('conditioning'), but it just never gets the intuitive feeling it has irl.

Regarding "if you want realism - use DST" - no my dear friends, I will not, because DST is actually nowhere close to being realistic. It maybe simulates steering physics but nowhere close simulates real feel and approach in riding a bike.

That is a misperception on your part. DST is very realistic, it simulates the way a bike is being handled irl. BUT it is designed to be used with an advanced steering/force feedback unit that is yet to be designed for public use. So what you are missing is the feedback of forces to have a realistic feeling. Of course it feels unnatural with a gamepad in your hand.  But that does not make direct steer unrealistic.

But again, I would also be in favor of trying your suggestion. But my bet is, that it would also not be satisfying.

And btw, you are not the only one around here, that is riding a sports bike irl

[HornetMaX]

"BTW, it had already been requested in the past, I clearly remember the discussion (going as far as asking a "tunable" max, so that you could set if your stick fully right means 65deg or 45deg)." - cool, what was the outcome?

As it's not yet in, I guess you can figure out the outcome

And btw, you are not the only one around here, that is riding a sports bike irl

ROFL ! 1-0 for Stout

[Fightone]

That is a misperception on your part. DST is very realistic, it simulates the way a bike is being handled irl. BUT it is designed to be used with an advanced steering/force feedback unit that is yet to be designed for public use. So what you are missing is the feedback of forces to have a realistic feeling. Of course it feels unnatural with a gamepad in your hand.

- first of all, I play with G27 and force feedback, not a gamepad.
- secondly, I ofc know that DST theoretically is the most precise simulation and I tried it with different steering wheel setups/force feedback and came to the conclusion that it's not really usable at this stage with regular forcefeedback controllers available on market like my steering wheel. And my feeling was that it's not only about controller itself but also about the simulation itself. The aggregative feeling after trying it was that, while real bikes always tend to stand up and stabilize, the GPB bike with DST is always trying to fall after any subtle input, what doesn't really feel realistic. IMHO the game logic lacks some feedback to the controller that would stabilize the bike via contersteering input coming from feedback force so bike would go straight and stable even when hands off, not crashing to the ground. For example that's how it works for car racing simulators, the force feedback plays an important role in generating stabilzing controller input for the car (like IRL) unlike in GPB. But that's just my impression, I admit I may be wrong somewhere.

And btw, you are not the only one around here, that is riding a sports bike irl

I know, I know , it was just to emphasize how cool I am, not like you noobs  Actually I just wanted to shorten the process of proving to everyone that I'm aware what countersteering is like, why DST is supposed to be cool and my suggestion comes not from not knowing about the above features or real bike physics/behaviour 

[HornetMaX]

Did you try DSA (Direct Steer Angle) ?

[Stout Johnson]

And my feeling was that it's not only about controller itself but also about the simulation itself.
[...]
IMHO the game logic lacks some feedback to the controller that would stabilize the bike via contersteering input coming from feedback force so bike would go straight and stable even when hands off, not crashing to the ground.

If you are talking about the lack of force feedback or wrong feedback, you might be correct I don't know. I have not tried GPB with a steering wheel. But that is different to saying that DST is not realistic, which per se clearly is not the case. If you observe certain things that you find to be unrealistic or that might be improved, Piboso is the last person to not be listening to you. He is especially interested in feedback when it comes to hardcore realism.

So feel free to post your observations here. But please don't just say "I don't like ... because it does not feel right". Please try to make well-founded statements and try to give a reasoning/explanations based on real life physics for your suggestions. Then I am sure Piboso generally would be glad to accept your feedback concerning this.

As a final remark: Don't rush it concerning that matter, because Piboso at the moment thankfully dedicates almost all his time to de-bugging his code. That is no.1 priority at the moment. Also Piboso recently stated that he might not be at full power due to personal problems.

[Fightone]

So feel free to post your observations here. But please don't just say "I don't like ... because it does not feel right". Please try to make well-founded statements and try to give a reasoning/explanations based on real life physics for your suggestions. Then I am sure Piboso generally would be glad to accept your feedback concerning this.

I was saying I don't feel and I don't like, just to let you know why I don't want to use DST at the moment like I was offered to do. I would gladly give accurate feedback, but I tried it pretty long ago so what's left from then is just my aggregative feeling that I already wrote here =) Frankly I was not really willing to give feedback on DST here but to touch this "lean angle limit" thing in the topic.

As a final remark: Don't rush it concerning that matter, because Piboso at the moment thankfully dedicates almost all his time to de-bugging his code. That is no.1 priority at the moment. Also Piboso recently stated that he might not be at full power due to personal problems.

Sure, I don't rush anyone and have respect to the labour Piboso does, and I'm cool if he does whatever he wants, in a good sense, that was just a pretty easy thing to implement in my mind (to allow "real direct lean") and I decided to share my observation on how to make the game a bit more realistic while using regular controls. That's pretty much it.
P.S. Moreover, to the moment of creating this topic I though that this feature might already be implemented so I was intended just to get info on the question, what I successfully did thanks to everyone

[Vini]

And my feeling was that it's not only about controller itself but also about the simulation itself. The aggregative feeling after trying it was that, while real bikes always tend to stand up and stabilize, the GPB bike with DST is always trying to fall after any subtle input, what doesn't really feel realistic. IMHO the game logic lacks some feedback to the controller that would stabilize the bike via contersteering input coming from feedback force so bike would go straight and stable even when hands off, not crashing to the ground.

you need an additional axis for direct-steer to work realistically, so you'd have the lean angle as output only and than the steering axis as input with actual force simulation output (resisting your steering input dynamically -> stabilizing the bike) not just a bit of vibration. the game can simulate those forces on the steering axis but there is no controller to take advantage of that.